Messages

451

Women / Also (prohibited are) women already married 4:24

« on: May 21, 2014, 06:13:59 PM »

Salamu Alykum

Dear brother Joseph

Can you help me out with understanding verse 4:24

Yusuf Ali
Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.


I understand that "your right hand possess" can not be restricted to the same meaning through out the Quran and needs to be read within the context.

Verse 4:24 is a continuation of the prohibitions that believing men cannot marry. So women who are married are not to be married again to another man. Or a man cannot marry a women who is currently married or in other words a women cannot have more than 1 husband. Now the except part I am trying to look at it in many ways here. I can assume many situations. But some situations just seem to me out of the kilter.  Because Im not understanding it right. So the question is:

A man can marry which women who is already married ?
or in other words which women may marry while she is already married

And in which meaning is best to understand "your right hand posses" here which would probably explain the previous questions?

only way I can see it is that a non-believing married women who turned to be a believing women either after a war or she left or ran away from her previous life out of her own choice without declaring divorce and wanted to marry a believing man? which typically she is still married? Then are these are the exceptions?


Salam

452

Islamic Duties / Re: What is the real meaning of sola/salat?

« on: April 07, 2014, 09:35:56 AM »

Asalamu Alaykum brother Wakas

what I ment was is there any people you know who actually try honestly without changing the meanings of the Quran to mean that Salat is actually commitment only. Or that it is not a worship and has form. Because you mentioned some try to explain them and some dont bother. I was curious on the ones that do bother to explain that salat as being not actually form and the way the traditional way is taken.


I found brother Joseph to go in depth in his articles explaining salat. That salat is a worship that includes form. That there are many requirements such as wudu before. And the steps involved in prayers. And how to deal with prayer when in danger or scared. That even the volume of voice required.  That one must understand what they say and there is also a direction. And the form its self. The sujud and ruku. Also I think this thread below is a good explanation of how its been passed on and that God has expected man to learn from another or bow down with those that bow down. The thread goes in much better details.  And not to forget all the other threads that brother Joseph wrote on. To be honest I found it to be very convincing. 

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=380.0

As much as I think salat is required.  I still try to keep a open mind to someone who can explain it other wise. 
 
There is a big difference trying to correct the true religion of islam that was traditionally lost through secondary sources with the Quran. And by changing the meanings of the Quran to satisfy the needs of people.






Salam

453

Islamic Duties / Re: What is the real meaning of sola/salat?

« on: April 06, 2014, 03:05:42 PM »

Asalamu alaykum brother Wakas

Shouldn't a believer always try to have commitment and be pure. And can you tell me anyone who does bother to explain it with out giving their own definition to words. And by being very logical about it. By also taking

thanks Salam

454

Islamic Duties / Re: What is the real meaning of sola/salat?

« on: April 03, 2014, 07:35:27 PM »

Asalamu Alykum Adam


I just read a little bit of the site you were talking about by Adid.
 
A year or so ago, I just came across this site here. I was really shocked about some of the articles I read. I found them to go against the beliefs that was somehow passed on to me from either family, friends or society. What I think always kept me close to my beliefs that I was born with was the ONENESS of GOD. Which made more sense than any other religion. So the question after believing in one God is that is the Quran the book of God or am I just reading it blindly and not understanding it. What I used to know about it was a little different to what i realized now thanks to God and may he reward those who strive hard in his way. After reading many articles from Br. Joseph I was to be honest feeling really confused about my religion because the things I started to read defeated the things I used to think as truth. I don't know if i felt sad deceived or not smart. I felt that what I was reading made more sense to my brain and my heart felt a little more at ease. The questions I had about the Quran that was kept inside me was slowly getting put together and answered. And Thank God slowly I began to ask God for more guidance. To make this short. What I realized in my view is that the FUNDAMENTAL belief between the traditionalist and the Quran centric people is not much different, in the basics of worship, prayer, fasting and what the Quran actually says. I find that within the past 1400+ lots of the Quran's meaning has been garnished with additives to makes things a little more complicated. But thank God he has protected the Quran for people to go back to it.

In the last couple of month, for the first time in my life I read a couple arguments and debates between people who also are Quran centric people but
totally don't believe in Angels, prayer, worshipping, fasting or miracles etc from a Quran's perspective, they described much as being metaphorical or allegorical. When I started reading the arguments, I was much much more confused than even the first time I felt this way.  It was that this time, it was a debate and argument from 2 parties who used the same book. My head was spinning and was wondering whats going on. I started to actually think that could it be those people who study science and are really educated correct about all this and maybe thats how the Quran should be read. Both sides spoke excellent language and seemed like they can quote verses from the Quran from memory. And it was very hard to distinguish between the right and the wrong. It felt that if I used my BRAIN only I would pick the side who was more metaphorical in their explanation because it fit with the ways and views of science, well supposedly anyways. or thats what they say. But if I used my BRAIN and HEART and more importantly asked GOD himself to guide me and to make me choose the better side. I would hopefully if God willing pick the side that is more truthful. And after recalling many verses from the Quran about the topics that the allegorical side views, I just couldn't see it making any sense. It was to much to take in and very confusing. And no proof from my humble opinion anyways.

It was as if a new religion is being made up as time went by. The thing that scares me is that many of their views of the Quran is very similar to the way other Quran centric people believe. And not like the misconceptions of the traditional beliefs. So its like picking and choosing and carefully analyzing everything.

The thing that kept me away from the metaphorical allegorical views of the Quran is that I felt that believing in the miracles and the Angels is a necessary need in becoming a believer. And that this verse says much. 3:7

Yusuf Ali
He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is PERVERSITY follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

Perversity-(a deliberate desire to behave in an unreasonable or unacceptable way; contrariness)

Now I hope I didn't get off topic, but the reason I say all this because even though the people who don't believe in prayer as being part of the Quran message. From my perspective when I look closely most of them seem to have the same perspective on many other topics like Angels, miracles and so on.

this is a quote from Br. Joseph Facebook page which I thought was a good question and he i think

"Finally, I ask another humble question. Do some simply not accept the Quran's testimony as it doesn't fit in with their worldview? Do they look for allegorical meanings because they do not want to accept the Quran at its word?

In the end, only God knows best."[1]

In the end only God knows best indeed. And I hope he guides us all to a path even closer and gives us the ability to discern between the right and the wrong Anyasha Allah

As for the word "prayer" in the Quran in Arabic. I found for example 98:5 uses the terms Salatta and Zakatta

But if found in another verse in the Quran the word Solla which in my opinion doesn't necessarily change the meaning.

just like someone saying "Can you read this book"

"he read that book"

the word read still has the same meaning.

May peace be with you

[1] https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/362736677196799





 

455

General Discussions / Re: 7:157

« on: March 16, 2014, 03:47:45 PM »

Thank you. I found that your article cleared up many questions and can end many unwarranted arguments. 


Salam

456

General Discussions / Re: 7:157

« on: March 09, 2014, 10:56:55 AM »

Asalamu Alykum Daniel

Is it also safe to say that in John 14:13-31 has nothing to do with the word Ahmad?

I just suggested that the word Ahmad does not mean Gods divine presence, so in John 14:15-31 I would read it how it is. And not mix the two up. I understood that Gods divine presence does not mean the trinity and what you meant.

Salam

457

General Discussions / Re: 7:157

« on: March 09, 2014, 10:42:14 AM »

Asalamu Alykum Abbsrayray


as you stated "There is no doubt in my mind that Jesus was NOT referring to Gods presents. Nor the Holy Spirit, Christians think the Holy Spirt is one of the three of the Trinity which is linked to God, Which is certainly not true."


Lets keep in mind what the Bible says and not what the Christians in a whole say. I am not a scholar either of the Bible and have not completely read it. Though from many people even from muslims, I hear that the Bible does not claim such a trinity. Im talking about the Bible in the language it came down with or was present at the time of prophet Muhammad. The Bible in english can be no different than the translations of the Quran in english where many translators keep in mind for example that prophet Jesus is coming back and they would mis translate verse 3:55 and many other verses. But an example below
"Yusuf Ali
Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute."

where the word "Mutawafeeka" has not even been included in the translation. The translators might not of known or just tried giving their best explanation. please see article for more clarifications. http://quransmessage.com/pdfs/Second%20Coming.pdf

now, according to the Holy Quran, it does not say that Ahmad is mentioned in the Bible or the Torah. It does not even ask the People of the Book Jews and Christians to go to the book that was present with them at the time of the prophet Muhammad and to see if the word Ahmad is mentioned in their books.

7:157 "Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper."


now verse 7:157 does not contain the word Ahmad. I find this verse here is speaking completely to the Jews and Christians only. The reasons why is because its telling those who follow the prophet who is not from them(Jews and Christians) a prophet who never been knowledgeable about the religion of Allah before this and Who is written in their own Torah and Bible. But the key point is that he is NOT mentioned by NAME as Ahmad or Muhammad. I feel like its something written in the books of the Torah and Bible that refers or gives an example of this or its not any different from what was in their own books? Not sure.


back to your your points you mentioned

"The name Ahmed IS referring to prophet Muhummed, there is absolutely no uncertainty about that. Why?

1. Allah says it in the Qur'an, and I believe Allah's word over anyone, it is not a case of maybe one is not understanding the verse and what it's meaning is. Verse 61:6 it is a straight forward self explanatory meaning. "


I agree with you thats what Ahmad is referring to prophet Muhammad but It does not say that in verse 61:6 that Ahmad is mentioned or written In the actual Torah or Bible that was present at the time the Quran was being revealed. It does not say go to your books open it up and see. Its stating thats what Jesus said. But it is Not something that was nessessarly written down by his disciples.

you stated also "2. There was NO other prophet that was after Prophet Issa besides Prophet Muhummed. God says that throughout the Qur'an, that Prophet Muhummed was the seal of the prophets and that he came after Jesus. "


Verse 61:6 does not mention a prophet thats going to come after him, but mentions messenger(rasoolin). Though in my views I still think its referring to prophet Muhammad. Though there was messengers present other than Prophet Jesus at his time or after him. Zakariya, Yahya etc. Correct me if I am wrong.


You stated also "As for the disciples did not write it down, I do not agree with that. Why? Because Allah is telling us what's is in the Torah and Injil. He certainly would not have mentioned "Ahmed" about Prophet Muhummed if it was not in the Bible. That is my belief thou, from me pondering on these verses and throughout the Qur'an listening to these ayas many many times.
 Remember that the Qur'an also is for the people of the kitab before Prophet Muhummed who have been told all this, so that they might take heed.
"

In the Quran as for 61:6 Allah is not telling us that what prophet Jesus sais was ACTUALLY written in any books. The word used is WAITH QALA(mention, remember, recite, what Jesus said). That same word is used many many times. Does not necessarily mean that it must be WRITTEN down in the previous scriptures unless said so.


you stated "The only thing that is difficult and too bad is the original Gospels text in the Language prophet Issa left, is not around or there is no record of it. (This is based on what was researched by Christian scholars)"

Not sure about that. According to many they are still around and present. I am not sure about this. But it is important to find out because as muslims we are expected to believe in them. And If they are still around I don't find it right to say something holy is not available to us when it is. anyways different topic maybe on another thread. Insha'Allah.

You also mentioned "It comes down to this in my view, It really does not matter if it is obvious in the Torah or Injil. Whoever want to believe, believe, whoever does not want to, do not have to, it is their right and choice either way, as Allah tells us. "

Yes who ever wants to believe, believe. But Don't we all want to believe in the Truth. I also believe we should also know the meaning of what Allah tells us in the Quran. And understand it. Before going around spreading rumours.

with respect to everyone.

Salam


articles related to this discussion would be:

Ahmad
http://quransmessage.com/pdfs/Ahmad.pdf

Parakletos
http://quransmessage.com/articles/pklts%20FM3.htm

458

General Discussions / Re: Who are "We"

« on: March 09, 2014, 06:36:42 AM »

Asalamu Alaykum

in the example of Moses companion that Deliverance posted is interesting.  The companion of Moses had been given mercy from Allah and had taught knowledge and given him knowledge of the future.

18:65 So they found one of Our servants, on whom We had bestowed Mercy from Ourselves and whom We had taught knowledge from Our own Presence


If I had to guess I would say that because he was given knowledge of the future from Allah. Allah would and could maybe also send the companion a Angel.

So with this thought in mind:

18:78 the "I" would be a referance to the companion himself as he was already given the knowledge of the king who is taking ships by force. So he decided to do that physically.
18:79 Moses companion had knowledge of this boy what he would do if he got older. So the companion and who ever gave him the knowledge(maybe Angel) feared he would be rebellious and they intended 18:80 (the companion and who was handing him the info maybe Angel) that their Lord change him for a more better, purer and nearer to mercy child. 18:81 the Lord told them that the boys should come to their full strength and then aquire their treasure as a mercy from their Lord.

And everything he did was not of his own command. Maybe all this happened that Allah sent him a Angel to command him.

Allah knows best.

I dont know how else to look at it.

though I would really like someone to give their opinion on this. It is interesting and never before payed attention to it before.

salam

459

General Discussions / Re: 7:157

« on: March 09, 2014, 04:01:04 AM »

Asalamu Alaykum Br Daniel and Abbsrayray

Thank you for sharing that. In my opinion that would make sense if the passage from the Quran 61:6 did not mention that a rasoolan messenger whos name is Ahmad will come after me.  But what is interesting to note that the Quran did not say that its mentioned in the Bible.


And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"

Since the above verse is speaking that a messenger is coming after Jesus(pbuh). I dont think its possible that the word Ahmad is referring to Gods divine presence. Since prophet Jesus(pbuh) is giving news of  glad tidings of a messenger to come after him. Which wouldn't make sense in my humble opinion.

And your right Daniel that trying to impose meaning on another script when its not the right meaning it will discredit a religion in the eyes of others.

I think what Br. Joseph indicated that its possible that the disciples of Jesus(pbuh) did not write all his sayings. And since the Quran does not say that 61:6 is in the book of the Bible. Its possible he said it. At the end Allah knows best.

Hi Abbsrayray.  I dont think we can just say Ahmad is short for Muhammad. Though Ahmad may be a possible referance to him. But no one would of known that till the presence of Muhammad(pbuh) came to life.


Peace

460

General Discussions / 7:157

« on: March 08, 2014, 03:50:00 PM »

Asalamu Alaykum brother Jospeh

I was reading your article Ahmad

I would just like to know if I am understanding the article correctly and would like to know your humble best assumption because I am assuming that it can only be as best seen. I do believe that only Allah alone knows the whole Quran.

First according to verse 61:6 I am assuming that this statement you made below is probably what you think it means best?  I also find that your one of your main cause for the article was to prove to the people of the book and anyone that the Quran does not state that Ahmad is mention in the Bible?

"Equally, it is implausible to assume that the Bible writers captured every single conversation that Prophet Jesus (pbuh) was ever part of.

 
In this manner, the debate could well have been with regards messengership in general. This would explain the possible theological question as to why Prophet Jesus (pbuh) deemed it necessary to mention another messenger after him while the same audience was not prepared to instil faith in his own messengership."


I also would like to know a little more of what you mentioned below. I looked up viz a viz.  Not really sure what it means exactly.  Like face to face? Similar characteristics? I just couldn't understand the point. And also would you say viz a viz the Bible and the Torah also since 7:157 mentions both?

On the strength of verse 7:157 alone, what the Quran is likely referencing viz a viz the Bible are clear indications of the nature of a true Prophet such as Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) that should be followed and not a Prophet of a particular name.

Reason I am interested is because lots of talk about this subject and I seen videos that many muslims used to try to prove that Bible and Torah mentions the prophet Muhammad(pbuh). And it used to be convincing especially when I cant understand the people of the books language.  Im not saying that those doing the videos are doing it on purpose. Just maybe they feel thats the truth.


Take your time brother Joseph I know you very busy


Salam

461

General Discussions / Re: Who are "We"

« on: March 05, 2014, 06:12:34 PM »

Asalamu Alaykum Abbsrayray

There would not be any second authority. Allah(swt) is the only authority. He would be the only one giving a command and so on. I actually just read Brother Josephs article which makes a good point.
http://quransmessage.com/articles/plural%20FM3.htm

That the word "WE" might be at times talking on behave of maybe ALLAH and the Angles, which He Allah alone sends the Angels to carry out a task. And at other times the word "WE" appears as a form of royalty. Thats my understanding of brother Josephs views. Which in my opinion does not take away from God as the only sole authority.

you mentioned "I have for a while pondered if there was a second authority  involved as being referred to as the author of the Quran by Allahs permission what to reveal to Prophet Muhammad.  We know prophet Muhammad wrote what was revealed to him, but also we know who Allah sent to reveal the Quran to. "

From my understanding and belief is that the author of the Quran is Allah. Whether someone wrote it down or many wrote it down, it still remains to be the words of Allah. It was an inspiration that was given from Allah to the prophet Muhammad. Now WHO, inspired the Quran to the prophet is still Allah. now HOW, through a medium(Gabriel and/or Angels) which was ordered and decreed by Allah's command alone.

And maybe something worth noting is that the Quran was not revealed all at once. So maybe what you were asking is how did the Prophet know when to reveal a surah? Because I don't want to say something I don't know, i would have to say to my best of understanding is that it was either inspired to him through Angels or Gabriel or dreams. Since Allah only spoke to prophet Moses from what the Quran wanted us to know.

I find that when discussing one topic it sometimes leads to another topic to get a better understanding of what happens. To many questions can pop up at anytime. I find Brother Joseph usually has related topics to his articles on the bottom which I find he put them together quite well Mash'Allah.

here is a good article on the compilation of the Quran
http://quransmessage.com/articles/the%20compilation%20of%20the%20quran%20FM3.htm
 

now back to the word "WE" in ayah 18:86. to me I try to keep focused on the who the narrative is and who is the speech from. I find it does switch at times, from past to present or maybe a future event.

About a year or so ago I did not follow the narratives, but i find it very beneficial when I do. Alhamdulila I capture the story much clearer.

But thats good to hear your spending a lot of time Insh'Allah God blesses you for your effort.

just out of curiosity in the verse 18:86 when its mentioned "WE SAID" are you thinking thats refers to Zul Qurnain . and is that why you asked if prophets can be having a access to a divine assembly?


because if thats the case, I think you lost the transition where the Quran is talking about him then takes you to what Allah said to him(either through the mediums or inspiration I don't know). and then 18:87 Zul Qurnain replies back to 18:86

I hope I did not confuse you.

Thats how I looked at it and I could be wrong too, maybe someone who is more educated in this topic can give their views Insh'Allah.

Salam

462

General Discussions / Re: Who are "We"

« on: March 05, 2014, 02:21:12 PM »

Asalamu  Alaykum

Does anyone else here take the word  "WE" in verse 18:86 to refer to Allah saying "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."?

Seems like we are way off in opinions here.  And I might be not following correctly to the narrations of the Quran?

I find that the "WE said" is referring to ALLAH said

Is that correct?

Peace

463

General Discussions / Re: Who are "We"

« on: March 04, 2014, 07:35:39 PM »

Asalamu Alykum

If you go back to verse 18:83 and read on

18:83 They ask thee concerning Zul-qarnain. Say, "I will rehearse to you something of his story."
18:84 Verily We established his power on earth, and We gave him the ways and the means to all ends.
18:85 One (such) way he followed,
18:86 Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."
18:87 He said: "Whoever doth wrong, him shall we punish; then shall he be sent back to his Lord; and He will punish him with a punishment unheard-of (before).


Allah(swt) is telling the prophet Muhammad(pbuh) and the reader of the Quran that Allah is aware that people are asking the prophet himself concerning Zul-qarnain. so he tells the Prophet to say, "I will rehearse to you something of his story" (this is off topic but I wonder if the story that the prophet is rehearsing to the ones asking, is it through the Quran or other inspiration given to the prophet?)(maybe someone can give some information on that Insh'Allah)


18:84 tells how Allah established Zul-Qarnain power and earth and so on…

18:86 tells us whats happening to Zul-Qarnain and then Allah Called out to him maybe through inspiration and said to him  We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."

18:87 Zul-Qarnain replies back.

so the "WE" in verse 18:86 is a reference to Allah(swt) saying that to the best of my knowledge.

Its amazing how at the same time that Allah speaks to the prophet himself through the Quran and gives the message and the story to the reader as well.

Salam

464

Prophets and Messengers / Re: Is there a better explanation?

« on: March 04, 2014, 01:11:57 PM »

Asalamun Alikum

going back to the verse you mentioned 19:54. Im not sure if this verse is indicating that Ismail(pbuh) was sent to the arabs or mecceans or he was the first? A couple verses back 19:51 is saying the same about prophet moses(pbuh).

 
 Are the arabs and prophet muahmmad(pbuh) REALLY DESCENDANTS OF PROPHET ABRAHAM pbuh

http://quransmessage.com/articles/are%20the%20arabs%20descendants%20of%20abraham%20FM3.htm


END OF PROPHETHOOD - CONTINUATION OF MESSENGERS?


http://quransmessage.com/articles/end%20of%20prophethood%20FM3.htm



Salam

465

Prophets and Messengers / Re: Joseph Islam's Article "EXCLUSIVENESS OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD (pbuh)"

« on: February 27, 2014, 02:49:03 AM »

Asalamu Alaykum

That explains ayat like 66:01. And gives the reader of the Quran the impression that the messengers were but men. Not robots or angels. They had desires and could of fallen in making errors.

This shows the faith that they had which gives them the strength in carrying out the message to humanity. And then by the will of God he would help them in there ways because depending in the faith they had. Which only God alone knows. They were probably also given the free will of choice. But its by Gods will that the messages would get through.

Imagine that you were the one being asked to impart the message to humanity and given a weighty mission.  What will you do? Will you first believe? Will you except it and not be of those who doubt? And how hard would you try? To what extent? It would require lots of sacrifice and hard work. And constantly working and striving for the truth. To a degree where its what you want the most.  Seems like to some point we are all given that opportunity to do it somehow. And we are all given the choice to reject.

It sometimes seems that the messengers did not just have it as easy as some may think they did.  the difference was that the message was revealed to them through Inspiration. Im not saying that was the only difference. And they had the same feelings we go through to pick and choice how they wanted to perceive after words. 

Just some thoughts.

thank you

Salam