Re: Wearing trouser/pants below ankle! & Code 19

[Sardar Miyan]

Apart from I am talking about RK's claim of meesengership which has to be judge from his character. I
don't know you people know his claim of being Messenger? And what was his character ?

[good logic]

Peace Hamzeh.

You say,quote:
Also regarding haf and warsh, this does not mean that God has failed in his promise to protect the Quran. Anyone today can simply omit verses or read them certain way or re-write the Quran differently and say this is the real one. This does not in fact mean that God has failed in protecting it.


They may omit verses or...But they will not succeed in saying it is the real  one,why? And how is it  protected?

While I agree any human written books, including the Mus-hafs are liable to human errors. The oldest copy of the Quran showed such errors as well as the new editions. God promised to preserve and protect the Qoran.
 To prove His promise to us, God revealed to us the Mathematical Miracle of the Qoran that proved the authenticity of the Qoran and exposed the human errors in these Mus-hafs.
 We are now responsible for using all the tools that God gave us to verify any written manuscript of the Qoran including the Mathematical Miracle of the Qoran claimed by others.

Brother Hassan, with all due respect, your argument about not asking questions about certain verses or why a basmallah is missing is very weak. One can use it( your argument) to justify any difficulty they have with verses!
GOD said we made Qoran easy to understand?

Sister Mia, you need to  check interlock yourself. I am sure you know where to find the link/instruction,but you need to use a copy of the Qoran and verify for yourself, if you choose to.This is the only way your question/s can be answered.

GOD bless .
Peace.

[Hamzeh]

Asalamu Alykum Good Logic

you said

They may omit verses or...But they will not succeed in saying it is the real  one,why? And how is it  protected?

What your saying Good Logic is that for the past 1400 years before the code was supposedly discovered that humans do not have the right Quran because most of them 95% of the Muslim world had the Hafs version. And NO one had the version which Rashid Khalifa had which are the ones with the 2 verses omitted. Which in other words would result in God has failed in His promise for a very long time.

When God tells us 15:9 "...We will assuredly guard it" that means He guards it from corruption from the time it was transmitted till the end of times.

The protected Quran has always been available and will always be available. This is something Muslims believe. They have faith in this because they believe in the Quran and its testimony.

While I agree any human written books, including the Mus-hafs are liable to human errors. The oldest copy of the Quran showed such errors as well as the new editions. God promised to preserve and protect the Qoran.

This again does not result to God failing in His promise. The Quran that was revealed to Prophet Muhammad was still being recited by the Muslim world at least 95% so anyone who was reciting the warsh which would of consisted of 5% of the Muslim world then they would of had to think about it and ask why are we using this version. Although there is no difference in meaning. There is no isolated verses or words. But when a person wants to see how a Book is protected it should be viewed by the majority or the world.

To prove His promise to us, God revealed to us the Mathematical Miracle of the Qoran that proved the authenticity of the Qoran and exposed the human errors in these Mus-hafs.
 We are now responsible for using all the tools that God gave us to verify any written manuscript of the Qoran including the Mathematical Miracle of the Qoran claimed by others.

Brother, you seem to avoid the clear verses of the Quran and are not taking heed of the statements made from God about those who seek this parable about the number 19, and it has only been made as a trial. Thats it. And its those who's hearts is a disease who pursue it.

(3:7)Yusuf Ali: He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.


(74:30)"Over it are 19"
(74:31)And We have made the guardians of the Fire to be angels; and We have only made their number a trial for those who have rejected, so that those who were given the Scripture would understand, and those who have faith would be increased in faith, and so that those who have been given the Scripture and the believers do not have doubt, and so that those who have a sickness in their hearts and the rejecters would say: "What did God mean with an example such as this?" It is such that God misguides whom He wishes, and He guides whom He wishes. And none know your Lord's soldiers except Him; and it is but a reminder for human beings.


Please think about this


Peace

[Hassan A]

Salaam good logic,

You asked:

And how is it  protected?

God simply tells us that He will safeguard it, and nothing more. To read too much into that statement and proclaim that some code is how it is safeguarded when God has give no further indication to its protection is unwarranted. God neither runs out of words nor does he forget, so if He wanted He could have conveyed to us the method used for safeguarding it, but He did. So.....

You also said:

your argument about not asking questions about certain verses or why a basmallah is missing is very weak.

I never said one cannot ask question. I was simply cautioning against delving too much into ambiguous verse/s and draw from them far-fetched conclusions, which are further supported by more ambiguous verse/es; which is how the argument for said code is presented.

If you don't mind I would like to post several question to you with regards to the two verses (9:128-129) which you and those adhering to the 19 code claim have been wrongly interjected into the Quran. And I would greatly appreciate it if you could answer them:

1) When do you believe these verses were wrongly added?
2) Whom do you believe (could've) added these two verses?
3) What method was used in interjecting these verses into the Quran? In other words, did the supposed perpetrators go around interject these two verses into every Quran text that was in publication at that time?
4) What are (if any) the earliest sources you can cite me which give mention to this case/doings (i.e the adding of the two supposedly wrong verses)
5) And what are the earliest source/s you can cite me which object to this doing?
6) How has no-one (until recently) spotted these supposedly wrong verses? Are we to believe that Muslims have for a very long time (until recently) been reciting the Quran along with theses supposedly wrong verses?
7) Besides the main objection you (and those adherent to this view) have with regards to those two supposedly wrong verses (i.e. not in accordance with the code), do you have any other objection towards them?

Peace.

[Hassan A]

I said:

but He did

What I meant to say was "but He didn't".

[Star]

Salam all,

I fully agree with everything Hassan A stated above. My arguments on this have been exhausted, but everyone else is free to add

[good logic]

Peace Hamzeh, Hassan mia.

First of all it is not about what we agree or disagree on.It is about the facts. The mathematical composition of Qoran is a fact. We can now, in this age, check  GOD s word easily and distinguish between man s words and GOD s words . How?

Here is an example, Quote:

MATHEMATICALLY COMPOSED LITERATURE

Suppose you are asked to write a book with the stipulation that:
1. Chapter 3 is to contain exactly 532 of the letter `S'.
2. Chapter 8 is to contain exactly 209 B's, and 779 T's.
3. Chapter 6 is to contain exactly 133 of the letter combination `ING.'
4. And the total number of sentences must be exactly 57, 152.

You will then try to write this hypothetical book, carefully counting and keeping track of those letters and the number of sentences in order to conform with the specifications given to you. As you conform to these specifications, you must write down words and sentences that make sense and tell the reader something important having to do with the subject of your book. This is a simple example of mathematical composition.

Secondly, of course for the last 1400 years Muslims had all the Qoran plus the supplements of duas, hadiths, two extra verses..etc.

For me interlock rejects "man s words" whatever they were, are or will be. I do not need to look further.

As for your questions brother Hassan, my previous sentence answers them all in one go.  However, the history of the two verses is also questionable, I will leave you to find out the following:
 
Why was there a civil war after the prophet s death?
Why was surah 9 "Madania" but the two verses " Meccan"? etc...

For me, all the parameters of the Qoran-the numbers and sequences of chapters; the number of verses; the numbers assigned to each verse; the number of words; the number of certain specified letters; the number of words from the same root; the number and variety of divine names; the absence of one or more letters from a word, verse or chapter; the unique and often strange spellings of certain crucial words; and many other elements-are all authenticated by its mathematical code.
Surah 9 ,128 and 129 are not. Others can leave them there if they choose. I accept ,according to my checking and study of interlock that  they were a human addition. 

 Thirdly, let us take the initial surahs as example,it is easy to see that the substitution or removal of any word containing one of the initials in an initialed chapter would break the code in that chapter. As the initials become more complex, the difficulty of writing readable and meaningful sentences increases. In some cases the only way that the code could have been written into the Qoran was for the language to have been invented around it! Only the Lord of the universe could produce such a text and lock it mathematically.

Finally, I have solid proof that the Qoran I checked is the words of GOD. The scriptometer code is available for anyone to check GOD s words. We do not need faith or history or hadith or defected logic or... Mathematics, the universal language of all the humans can confirm that GOD has indeed spoken to us.

GOD bless you all.
Peace.

[Sstikstof]

It was a libas related thread.....   

[QM Moderators Team]

Dear All,

Please see original thread comments. This topic has been split.

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1786.msg8867#msg8867

QM Moderators