How many earths?

[good logic]

Peace Hamzeh.

Thank you for your input.

My understanding about "Waquaa al kaoulu alaihim"وَقَعَ القَولُ عَلَيهِم can mean from any generation after the prophet.

The following verses clarify it for us:
27:83
وَيَومَ نَحشُرُ مِن كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ فَوجًا مِمَّن يُكَذِّبُ بِـٔايٰتِنا فَهُم يوزَعونَ

27:84
حَتّىٰ إِذا جاءو قالَ أَكَذَّبتُم بِـٔايٰتى وَلَم تُحيطوا بِها عِلمًا أَمّاذا كُنتُم تَعمَلونَ

27:85
وَوَقَعَ القَولُ عَلَيهِم بِما ظَلَموا فَهُم لا يَنطِقونَ

I also gave you what I thought " Dabbah mina alard " could not be and why?

I did say that is my understanding.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Hamzeh]

Peace to you too Bro Good logic

Thanks for your input as well. What do you have to say about your understanding after reading the article?

Would your understanding still remain that the word "dabbah" cannot be a reference to a human? or a computer?

"

As for 27:82, to me "dabbah mina alard " could not be human.Otherwise it would have been " Basharan minhum"or similar. Why?
Because.Qoran always uses "Basharan rasoolan" when it talks about sending a human.Also the word "Akhrajna"  does not mean send.

I probably would not restrict that verse you just mentioned 27:85 to the generations after the Prophet, if you look at the previous verses it seems clears that this incident is taking place on the Day of Judgement with every nation(kulli Ommatin).

May God bless you too bro

Peace

[good logic]

Peace Hamzeh.

Yes my understanding that "Dabbah" in 27:82 cannot be a referenvce to a "human".

However it could be a reference to any "communication technology" internet/app....etc?

Now the key words in verse 27:82 to me are:

1- Al-naasa" General for any generation after the prophet.

2- " La yuquinoon"- Not certain. What makes people certain is different from what makes them believe!

i.e different from " La-yuminoon"

To be certtain can be done only by evidence, to believe can be done by faith or evidence.

GOD chooses His words carefully and deliberately.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Hamzeh]

Peace Good logic

I suggest you read the article again and try to understand it. Im also not just accepting it blindly. Brother Joseph clearly identifies that the word dabbah in verse 27:82 can mean a human in the negative form. And also clearly identifies that it cannot mean a computer because 24:45 states that God created every dabbah from water.


Just incase your not understanding the verse correctly. My own interpolation of the verse after understanding the article im pretty sure is saying that when God decides that a human/s whether singular or in a group or community has had His signs manifested to him/them and they disbelieve and become branded as kaffirs/disbelievers then God brings forth to him/them a creature from the earth to speak to him/them. BECAUSE THEY DID NOT WITH CERTAINTY BELIEVE IN GODS SIGNS/VERSES. Now in my opinion these creatures can also be from one another speaking to each other or not. Only God knows.

The previous verses is telling the Prophet that he cannot make the deaf or the blind to hear or to be taken off their misguidance . Only the ones who believe in Gods signs are the ones  who LISTEN to the Prophet.

There is a context thats needs to be considered to understand the Al-naas that you mentioned

With Peace and Blessings Insha'Allah

[good logic]

Peace Hamzeh.
Thank you for explaining your view in detail.

The context for me gives a different view. Let me explain why?:

1- People are not certain about what? Would you agree it is "AAyaat"  from GOD?

2- 27;84 clarifies further that : Lam tuhitoo biha ilman" i.e you have not studied/checked/analysed...the" Aayaats"

 3-Staying with the context the surah ends with: Sanureehim Aayatina fi ...Hatta yatabayyana lhum annahu alhaq" 

My understanding is by studying/checking the "Aayaats" ,we become certain that it is the truth and authored by GOD.

How can we become certain? By checking/analysing/studying ,then finding evidence that only GOD could have authored Qoran.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Hamzeh]

Asalamu Alykum

Thanks brother Good Logic for your response

Before I make my next comment I would like to under stand this verse actually a little better Insha'Allah.

Here are 3 different translations

Yusuf Ali
And when the Word is fulfilled against them (the unjust), we shall produce from the earth a beast to (face) them: He will speak to them, for that mankind did not believe with assurance in Our Signs.

Sahih International
And when the word befalls them, We will bring forth for them a creature from the earth speaking to them, [saying] that the people were, of Our verses, not certain [in faith].

And when the Word is fulfilled against them, we shall bring out from the earth a beast to them: which will speak to them because mankind believed not with certainty in Our Signs.


The word in question for me is "Anna"

The verse is saying that the dabbah will be speaking to the people, and not that it says to them. So gives me the impression that sahib international translation is a bit off.

I always assumed "Anna" meant "because"

you said

1- People are not certain about what? Would you agree it is "AAyaat"  from GOD?

I don't think the the word "Aayaat" is speaking about the verses of the Quran ONLY . I would think it means Signs. There is a lot of people who don't get a chance to study and check the verses of the Quran academically however they are giving signs(Ayat) all around them while they still do wrong things. There is lots of people who may be convinced that the Quran is the word of God by also not understanding everything and every verse(Aya) As a matter of fact only God himself knows the full knowledge of that.3:7(part) "but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah."

People come to God in many different ways. Sometimes one verse or the structure of the Quran and its overall explanation can bring people to complete faith. 

2- 27;84 clarifies further that : Lam tuhitoo biha ilman" i.e you have not studied/checked/analysed...the" Aayaats"

27:83 One day We shall gather together from every people a troop of those who reject our Signs, and they shall be kept in ranks,-

This verse clarifies that it cannot be restricted to just the time after the Prophet Muhammad. So signs here is not only speaking about the Quranic verses. Signs are that this world is created by God himself. Only he has the full knowledge of how everything is. The space the planets and everything in it. There are signs all over us. Including the Quran of course.

27:84 Until, when they come (before the Judgment-seat), (Allah) will say: "Did ye reject My Signs, though ye comprehended them not in knowledge, or what was it ye did?"
Seems to me God is being so just. Was it the lack of knowledge that lead you to deny the signs all around you that God is the creator of all these things. Or what else was it that us humans were doing. This

27:86 See they not that We have made the Night for them to rest in and the Day to give them light? Verily in this are Signs for any people that believe!

3-Staying with the context the surah ends with: Sanureehim Aayatina fi ...Hatta yatabayyana lhum annahu alhaq" 

The last part you mentioned is not in the last verse "Hatta yatabayyana lhum annahu alhaq".

But the last 3 verses of the Surah 27:91-93 are telling the Prophet to say to his people in my summary that He is commanded to worship God and to submit to God himself. And also to recite the Quran to the people and that he is only a warner. And also to say to his people that all praise is to God. God will show them his signs. He will manifest to them that what the messenger is coming with is the word of God. Remember the Quran was revealed to them in parts. So that they may become certain God will show them his signs and they will know some how. Maybe when God says in 3 to 9 years the romans will win. Or through the events that those people went through.

How can we become certain? By checking/analysing/studying ,then finding evidence that only GOD could have authored Qoran.

People come certain in many different ways. People already have been passed the message that the Quran is the word of God. And itself it claims that. If we check the Quran to our fallible minds we fail in accusing the Quran to be false because it doesn't fit to our understanding. Certainty comes from the whole Quran altogether. its all the verses put together that makes the Quran. Not checking one by one and accepting some and not the others. Its either the whole of it is or its not. At the same time I do agree with you that the Quran is a sign for sure.


But anyways in the end you said that you think that the word dabbah can be technology internet communication or app. and that dabbah cannot be a reference to a human. So how can you justify your answer after there is clear verses that indicate otherwise.

024.045
"And God has created every moving creature (Arabic: dabbatin) from water. Of them there are some that creep on their bellies and some that walk on two legs; and some that walk on four. God creates what He wills for verily God has power over all things"
 

008.022
"Indeed, the worst of creatures (Arabic: dawabi) near God are the deaf, the dumb, those who do not use (their) intellect"

008.055
"Indeed, the worst of creatures (Arabic: dawabi) near God are those who disbelieve and they will not believe"

035.045
"And if God were to punish people (Arabic: naas) for what they deserve / have earned, He would not leave on the back of the (earth) a single living creature (Arabic: dabbatin): but He gives them respite for an appointed term. When their term expires, verily God has in His sight all His Servants"
 

[good logic]

Peace Hamzah.

I follow your analysis. I am aware of what you are saying.

 However when you say:

I don't think the the word "Aayaat" is speaking about the verses of the Quran ONLY . I would think it means Signs. There is a lot of people who don't get a chance to study and check the verses of the Quran academically


I understand from 27:92: وَأَن أَتلُوَا۟ القُرءانَ فَمَنِ اهتَدىٰ فَإِنَّما يَهتَدى لِنَفسِهِ وَمَن ضَلَّ فَقُل إِنَّما أَنا۠ مِنَ المُنذِرينَ that it talking about Qoran.

Hence 27:93: وَقُلِ الحَمدُ لِلَّهِ سَيُريكُم ءايٰتِهِ فَتَعرِفونَها وَما رَبُّكَ بِغٰفِلٍ عَمّا تَعمَلونَ

You may say it also means other "signs". But ,for me, from the context of all the verses - including the "dabbah" ,people should recognise,become certain that Qoran has evidence/sign/proof( that can be "seen"/"recognised" ) that it is authored by GOD.

"Aayat" in Qoran can mean any of these:
1-Verse/s of the scripture
2- sign/s as in nature or sign/s as in instruction from GOD ( Zaccariah asked for a sign from GOD- Not to speak to people for three days-)
3- Miracle/proof _Moses came with "Aayat" to Pharaoh-

So for me the context means there is "Aayat" in Qoran that confirms it is from GOD for those who want to be certain,for those that recognise/see this "Aayat".-Yuhito biha ilman-

GOD bless you.
Peace