106
General Discussions / Re: Allah's Guidence
« on: December 10, 2014, 09:09:44 PM »
You're very wellcome my brother, I hope I was of help 
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107
General Discussions / Re: Allah's Guidence
« on: December 10, 2014, 07:33:36 AM »
May peace be with you my dear brother,
Our brother Joseph has answered a nearly identical question to yours a while ago. I believe you will get the answer you're looking for here: http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1256.0
I hope I could help,
Your sister in faith,
Seraphina
Our brother Joseph has answered a nearly identical question to yours a while ago. I believe you will get the answer you're looking for here: http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1256.0
I hope I could help,
Your sister in faith,
Seraphina
108
General Discussions / Re: Surah Ahzab sanctions death penalty! Really?!
« on: December 08, 2014, 01:01:57 AM »
Wa alaikoum selam my brother,
Thank you soooo much
As you have supposed, I shared the verses exactly like they were presented to me, and I was aware of the two verses that were 'skipped', but I was given the justification that 'they were in the same context, although it may not look so'. Since I haven't studied the Quran like I studied Bible, I'm always scared that there might be something in the Quran that I don't know
I am aghast to see the video you shared in your answer, and to find out that I'm not the only one to go through this thing.
Frankly, I'm sick of seeing people distorting the Quran with their tongue to justify their acts or their desires.
Brother Joseph, thank you for existing
may Allah reward you inshallah!
Your sister Seraphina.
Thank you soooo much
As you have supposed, I shared the verses exactly like they were presented to me, and I was aware of the two verses that were 'skipped', but I was given the justification that 'they were in the same context, although it may not look so'. Since I haven't studied the Quran like I studied Bible, I'm always scared that there might be something in the Quran that I don't know
I am aghast to see the video you shared in your answer, and to find out that I'm not the only one to go through this thing.Frankly, I'm sick of seeing people distorting the Quran with their tongue to justify their acts or their desires.
Brother Joseph, thank you for existing
may Allah reward you inshallah!Your sister Seraphina.
109
General Discussions / Surah Ahzab sanctions death penalty! Really?!
« on: December 07, 2014, 07:45:47 PM »
Salam alaikoum everyone, I hope you're having a great Sunday
This question was made to me today regarding the death penalty for insulting the prophet Muhammad pbuh.
Of course, I am a Quran-centric muslim who upholds the view that there is no death penalty for blasphemy (or apostasy) in the Quran. I've read the brother Joseph's articles regarding this subject, and I became completely convinced. But during the discussion I was shown these verses from surah Ahzab:
"Indeed, Allah confers blessing upon the Prophet, and His angels [ask Him to do so]. O you who have believed, ask [ Allah to confer] blessing upon him and ask [ Allah to grant him] peace. Indeed, those who abuse Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this world and the Hereafter and prepared for them a humiliating punishment. If the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is disease and those who spread rumors in al-Madinah do not cease, We will surely incite you against them; then they will not remain your neighbors therein except for a little. Accursed wherever they are found, [being] seized and massacred completely." (Sahih International).
I haven't seen these verses in the articles of brother Joseph regarding this subject, neither have I ever considered them as basis for death penalty for blasphemy, to me they have always been a warning of the hypocrites of Madinah during prophet's lifetime, that if they don't stop their harm against prophet, they will be exposed by God, and they will be executed. It's not that I argue with God's laws (eudhubilah), if prophet was ordered so from God, then so be it. But I can't understand how would a prophet who forgave the jewish women who tried to poison him, or meccan leaders who had fought and tortured him for years, would kill someone just for a spoken word, and furthermore ask us to do the same if someone mocks him in front of us.
Could you brothers and sisters enlighten me about these verses? Do they still prevail in our time, or were they only prevalent during prophet's days in Madinah? I know my posts these days have been very frequent, but I'm working hard and studying a lot to understand Quran better, and this is always the right place to look for the right answers
Thank you in advance,
Your sister Seraphina
This question was made to me today regarding the death penalty for insulting the prophet Muhammad pbuh.
Of course, I am a Quran-centric muslim who upholds the view that there is no death penalty for blasphemy (or apostasy) in the Quran. I've read the brother Joseph's articles regarding this subject, and I became completely convinced. But during the discussion I was shown these verses from surah Ahzab:
"Indeed, Allah confers blessing upon the Prophet, and His angels [ask Him to do so]. O you who have believed, ask [ Allah to confer] blessing upon him and ask [ Allah to grant him] peace. Indeed, those who abuse Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this world and the Hereafter and prepared for them a humiliating punishment. If the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is disease and those who spread rumors in al-Madinah do not cease, We will surely incite you against them; then they will not remain your neighbors therein except for a little. Accursed wherever they are found, [being] seized and massacred completely." (Sahih International).
I haven't seen these verses in the articles of brother Joseph regarding this subject, neither have I ever considered them as basis for death penalty for blasphemy, to me they have always been a warning of the hypocrites of Madinah during prophet's lifetime, that if they don't stop their harm against prophet, they will be exposed by God, and they will be executed. It's not that I argue with God's laws (eudhubilah), if prophet was ordered so from God, then so be it. But I can't understand how would a prophet who forgave the jewish women who tried to poison him, or meccan leaders who had fought and tortured him for years, would kill someone just for a spoken word, and furthermore ask us to do the same if someone mocks him in front of us.
Could you brothers and sisters enlighten me about these verses? Do they still prevail in our time, or were they only prevalent during prophet's days in Madinah? I know my posts these days have been very frequent, but I'm working hard and studying a lot to understand Quran better, and this is always the right place to look for the right answers
Thank you in advance,
Your sister Seraphina
110
Discussions / Re: the role of imams in the community
« on: December 07, 2014, 04:12:45 AM »
Dear sister Hope,
Assalamu alaikum
Thank you for this interesting article. Indeed it's a sensitive subject these days, for example in my country the imams are frequently under investigations for recruiting 'holy warriors' to help set free 'holy lands of Sham'. Those rare imams who hold a Quran-centric positions and besides in Islamic sciences are highly educated on other fields (for example exact sciences or medicine) are accused for blasphemy and are dubbed as kafir (same as ordinary people who maintain Quran-centric views). The point is that we really need well-educated, well-trained imams, with wide horizons of knowledge, who base their teaching primarily in the Quran, as the ultimate word of God for humanity.
We should never underestimate the role of the imams, because as the saying goes "If such are the priests, then God bless the congregation"
May God guide people towards understanding better His word and applying it to their everyday life, God willing.
Salam
Assalamu alaikum
Thank you for this interesting article. Indeed it's a sensitive subject these days, for example in my country the imams are frequently under investigations for recruiting 'holy warriors' to help set free 'holy lands of Sham'. Those rare imams who hold a Quran-centric positions and besides in Islamic sciences are highly educated on other fields (for example exact sciences or medicine) are accused for blasphemy and are dubbed as kafir (same as ordinary people who maintain Quran-centric views). The point is that we really need well-educated, well-trained imams, with wide horizons of knowledge, who base their teaching primarily in the Quran, as the ultimate word of God for humanity.
We should never underestimate the role of the imams, because as the saying goes "If such are the priests, then God bless the congregation"
May God guide people towards understanding better His word and applying it to their everyday life, God willing.
Salam
111
General Discussions / Re: Qur'an + Torah
« on: December 06, 2014, 07:55:37 AM »
Greetings Good logic,
Here are some of your quotes that I was talking about:
"Yes ,if you can find the "Original Torah" you would find that it agrees with Qoran." So the original Torah is lost (since you say'if you can find it'), and the Torah we have is corrupted, since it doesn't agree with Quran at some aspects. You don't say it directly, but that's what you imply by saying this phrase. Furthermore, simply by using the term "the original Torah", you are showing us that you believe there are two Torahs: one original and one false. If anyone can understand these sayings of yours in a different manner, then please elucidate me, because that's the only meaning I get from thse words of yours.
Next, to my surprise, you say: "Neither am I saying that today s Torah is different from the past Torah." This is where you lost me: Is today's Torah different from past Torah or not?
"Please provide me with the "Torah" that Qoran is speaking about. Where is it?" Here you go again with the ''one original and one false Torah'' again. The Quran answers this question, for example, in 5:43: "But why do they come to you for decision, when they have (their own) Torah before them? therein is the (plain) command of God; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not People of Faith." Does this ring a bell?
"But the bible is not the Torah." Absolutely correct! The Bible contains nearly 66 books, and the Torah is made up of only 5 of them: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy.
Anyways, I don't want to go back to things already mentioned in my posts or Duster's posts, and regarding the changes between Torah and Quran, I talked about it in a previous post.
I'm trying to understand you, but you're constantly changing your words, so you end up confusing us. If I'd be the only one confused, I'd assume it's my fault, but since I'm not the only one experiencing it, it is your way of expression or understanding that's at fault.
Selam, God bless you too
Here are some of your quotes that I was talking about:
"Yes ,if you can find the "Original Torah" you would find that it agrees with Qoran." So the original Torah is lost (since you say'if you can find it'), and the Torah we have is corrupted, since it doesn't agree with Quran at some aspects. You don't say it directly, but that's what you imply by saying this phrase. Furthermore, simply by using the term "the original Torah", you are showing us that you believe there are two Torahs: one original and one false. If anyone can understand these sayings of yours in a different manner, then please elucidate me, because that's the only meaning I get from thse words of yours.
Next, to my surprise, you say: "Neither am I saying that today s Torah is different from the past Torah." This is where you lost me: Is today's Torah different from past Torah or not?
"Please provide me with the "Torah" that Qoran is speaking about. Where is it?" Here you go again with the ''one original and one false Torah'' again. The Quran answers this question, for example, in 5:43: "But why do they come to you for decision, when they have (their own) Torah before them? therein is the (plain) command of God; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not People of Faith." Does this ring a bell?
"But the bible is not the Torah." Absolutely correct! The Bible contains nearly 66 books, and the Torah is made up of only 5 of them: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy.
Anyways, I don't want to go back to things already mentioned in my posts or Duster's posts, and regarding the changes between Torah and Quran, I talked about it in a previous post.
I'm trying to understand you, but you're constantly changing your words, so you end up confusing us. If I'd be the only one confused, I'd assume it's my fault, but since I'm not the only one experiencing it, it is your way of expression or understanding that's at fault.
Selam, God bless you too
112
General Discussions / Re: Qur'an + Torah
« on: December 06, 2014, 07:05:59 AM »
Brother Good logic, I would suggest you to read brother Joseph's answers at this post. You seem to be missing some points regarding what Quran says about Torah and other past scriptures. To be honest, Duster is not the only one who is sensing you contradict yourself in your answers, I have difficulties understanding you as well, because in your post you say something, then in other post you say something else, and then you say something like 'I didn't mean it that way'. I would like you answer a question for me, if I'm not asking too much:
If Torah of today is the same Torah of 1400 years ago, and this Torah is corrupted as you claim, then how can God ask the jews to get back to their Torah? Doesn't God know that the Torah they have is corrupted?
As for ilustration: It's like I knew someone stole your car and it's never been found, and yet I still tell you "why you walk on foot when you have your car? get inside of it and start driving". If this type of contradiction done by me (a human being) wouldn't make any sense, how can it make sense from God, who's clear on important matters such as these?
Selam, God bless you
If Torah of today is the same Torah of 1400 years ago, and this Torah is corrupted as you claim, then how can God ask the jews to get back to their Torah? Doesn't God know that the Torah they have is corrupted?
As for ilustration: It's like I knew someone stole your car and it's never been found, and yet I still tell you "why you walk on foot when you have your car? get inside of it and start driving". If this type of contradiction done by me (a human being) wouldn't make any sense, how can it make sense from God, who's clear on important matters such as these?
Selam, God bless you
113
General Discussions / Re: Qur'an + Torah
« on: December 05, 2014, 04:51:26 AM »
Thank you brother Joseph, may God bless you
114
General Discussions / Re: Qur'an + Torah
« on: December 05, 2014, 04:09:06 AM »
Brother Good logic, selam aleikoum, sorry if I'm interfering,
From what I see, you expect every previous scripture of God to agree 100% with the Quran. Well, while they may agree in many points (since their source is the same), they can't agree 100%. You know why?
Because the previous scriptures (including Torah) were meant for a certain time and place, they were temporary and befitting the circumstances for the time they were sent, they weren't meant to be universal laws for all time. The main laws were the same, it's just the way they applied were adjusted by God in accordance with prevalent circumstances and needs. But the Quran was meant to be a universal law for all times and circumstances. So, while still being the same law, the way of their appliance was adjusted so it could fit perfectly with all the times to come. For example, the fasting still remained prescribed for us "just like it was to those before us", but the adjustment was that the relations with our spouse are allowed during the night (because God with infinite knowledge knew that there will come a time such as ours that evil temptations will be everywhere around, so it would be terribly hard to us). Or another example: the adultery is still forbidden, as a great sin that it is, but the death penalty was revoked, it got substituted with lashes and never being allowed to marry other than adulterer or polytheist, God with infinite knowledge knew that there will come a time when this horrible way of punishment (stoning to death) will be unfitting with people's way of living and judging.
That's what the jews of the time of Prophet couldn't understand, that's why they were constantly pointing that since there are differences in laws of Quran and Torah, Quran can't be from the same God of the Torah. That's why God answered to them "We never substitute a verse except that it is a better one".
It's like us humans when we make an amendment to an existing law of constitution - the law is still prevalent, just with some adjustments to fit with a sudden need that a society might be facing.
God bless you all, I hope I helped a bit
From what I see, you expect every previous scripture of God to agree 100% with the Quran. Well, while they may agree in many points (since their source is the same), they can't agree 100%. You know why?
Because the previous scriptures (including Torah) were meant for a certain time and place, they were temporary and befitting the circumstances for the time they were sent, they weren't meant to be universal laws for all time. The main laws were the same, it's just the way they applied were adjusted by God in accordance with prevalent circumstances and needs. But the Quran was meant to be a universal law for all times and circumstances. So, while still being the same law, the way of their appliance was adjusted so it could fit perfectly with all the times to come. For example, the fasting still remained prescribed for us "just like it was to those before us", but the adjustment was that the relations with our spouse are allowed during the night (because God with infinite knowledge knew that there will come a time such as ours that evil temptations will be everywhere around, so it would be terribly hard to us). Or another example: the adultery is still forbidden, as a great sin that it is, but the death penalty was revoked, it got substituted with lashes and never being allowed to marry other than adulterer or polytheist, God with infinite knowledge knew that there will come a time when this horrible way of punishment (stoning to death) will be unfitting with people's way of living and judging.
That's what the jews of the time of Prophet couldn't understand, that's why they were constantly pointing that since there are differences in laws of Quran and Torah, Quran can't be from the same God of the Torah. That's why God answered to them "We never substitute a verse except that it is a better one".
It's like us humans when we make an amendment to an existing law of constitution - the law is still prevalent, just with some adjustments to fit with a sudden need that a society might be facing.
God bless you all, I hope I helped a bit
115
Prophets and Messengers / Re: How many Prophets?
« on: December 03, 2014, 06:13:14 AM »
Peace be with you all, especially brother Joseph,
Thank you so much for taking time to give us this beautifully explained answer! I'm so glad especially regarding the section 7 of your answer, (where you explain that not every prophet received a scripture of his own). The conclusions you share there are nearly the same ones I had reached, and your answer helped me to define them. I'm so happy I'm learning so many things so fast. May God bless you along with brothers Good logic and Duster
Your sister,
Seraphina
Thank you so much for taking time to give us this beautifully explained answer! I'm so glad especially regarding the section 7 of your answer, (where you explain that not every prophet received a scripture of his own). The conclusions you share there are nearly the same ones I had reached, and your answer helped me to define them. I'm so happy I'm learning so many things so fast. May God bless you along with brothers Good logic and Duster
Your sister,
Seraphina
116
Prophets and Messengers / Re: How many Prophets?
« on: November 30, 2014, 03:20:39 AM »
Shalom/peace brother/sister Duster,
I agree with your last post. I'd like to know (I'm very curious) if you saw my last post, where I mentioned something I once read, but that honestly never knew whether to agree with it or not. I'd like to see if it makes any sense to you. God bless you,
Your sister,
Seraphina
I agree with your last post. I'd like to know (I'm very curious) if you saw my last post, where I mentioned something I once read, but that honestly never knew whether to agree with it or not. I'd like to see if it makes any sense to you. God bless you,
Your sister,
Seraphina
117
Prophets and Messengers / Re: How many Prophets?
« on: November 29, 2014, 04:27:40 AM »
Shalom Duster,
Yeah, I am aware of brother Joseph's busy schedule, and that's why I have a deep respect and consideration for him - may God Almighty reward him for finding time to answer us whenever possible for him
As regarding the subject, I recall an article I once read in a religious magazine, (but I don't remember the name of the author, sorry, Arabic names and their spellings have always been tough for me), but anyways, the scholar there wrote that The first scripture - )a book with a law to be established - different from Abraham's scrolls) was Torah, and it was given to Moses. Moses had the authority to proclaim the Torah and its laws to people. The prophets that came from Moses until David didn't bring any other scripture, they simply re-brought the Torah to people who went astray from it. So, the Torah was re-given to them to be re-proclaimed to the people. That's what Allah meant when he revealed that We sent Noah, Isaac, Jacob... and to each of them We gave the scripture. They were given the authority to re-proclaim the Torah that people had forsaken. The same happened when David was given the Zabur (Psalms), and when Jesus was given the Injeel (if we accept it as a written book). So, Allah sent prophets in different nations and different times everytime they needed a commander/leader, or went astray from (existing) laws of God. They either re-proclaimed the existing laws or brought a new law that fitted better the circumstances they were in".
Now, I don't know if this view is correct, I don't know if it makes sense (brother Joseph needed to help us on this), but whatever be the truth regarding previous scriptures, I have the Quran that is a confirmer and a continuation of previous laws. The God's laws are still the same ones we find in the Torah, Zabur, Injeel, but Allah made some adjustments that would make it proper for all times until the last day of this world, in difference from previous scriptures that were only for a specific time and circumstance
God bless you,
Shalom
Yeah, I am aware of brother Joseph's busy schedule, and that's why I have a deep respect and consideration for him - may God Almighty reward him for finding time to answer us whenever possible for him
As regarding the subject, I recall an article I once read in a religious magazine, (but I don't remember the name of the author, sorry, Arabic names and their spellings have always been tough for me), but anyways, the scholar there wrote that The first scripture - )a book with a law to be established - different from Abraham's scrolls) was Torah, and it was given to Moses. Moses had the authority to proclaim the Torah and its laws to people. The prophets that came from Moses until David didn't bring any other scripture, they simply re-brought the Torah to people who went astray from it. So, the Torah was re-given to them to be re-proclaimed to the people. That's what Allah meant when he revealed that We sent Noah, Isaac, Jacob... and to each of them We gave the scripture. They were given the authority to re-proclaim the Torah that people had forsaken. The same happened when David was given the Zabur (Psalms), and when Jesus was given the Injeel (if we accept it as a written book). So, Allah sent prophets in different nations and different times everytime they needed a commander/leader, or went astray from (existing) laws of God. They either re-proclaimed the existing laws or brought a new law that fitted better the circumstances they were in".
Now, I don't know if this view is correct, I don't know if it makes sense (brother Joseph needed to help us on this), but whatever be the truth regarding previous scriptures, I have the Quran that is a confirmer and a continuation of previous laws. The God's laws are still the same ones we find in the Torah, Zabur, Injeel, but Allah made some adjustments that would make it proper for all times until the last day of this world, in difference from previous scriptures that were only for a specific time and circumstance
God bless you,
Shalom
118
Prophets and Messengers / Re: How many Prophets?
« on: November 28, 2014, 11:13:54 PM »
Shalom/peace to you too dear brother/sister Duster,
I'm glad you asked, because I'm waiting for that response too, for a firm, Quran-based response
God bless you and brother Good logic as well.
I'm glad you asked, because I'm waiting for that response too, for a firm, Quran-based response
God bless you and brother Good logic as well.
119
Prophets and Messengers / Re: How many Prophets?
« on: November 27, 2014, 10:47:49 PM »
Selam Good Logic,
In your post you share (regarding Hud, Saleh, Shuaib, etc): "None of them delivered a Scripture? Thus according to the definition of 2:213 they are not prophets.". So you're saying that 'a prophet' is 'a messenger who delivered a scripture'.
Yet, in the next post you mention Noah, Isaac and Jacob as 'prophets'. If so, then what scripture did they deliver?
Because to my knowledge the only known scriptures are: The scrolls (from Abraham), Tewrat (from Moses), Zabur (from David) Injeel (from Jesus) and Quran (from Muhammad) - peace be upon them all.
Looking forward to brother Joseph's answer if my posts on this subject are correct or not.
God bless you too brother,
Selam
In your post you share (regarding Hud, Saleh, Shuaib, etc): "None of them delivered a Scripture? Thus according to the definition of 2:213 they are not prophets.". So you're saying that 'a prophet' is 'a messenger who delivered a scripture'.
Yet, in the next post you mention Noah, Isaac and Jacob as 'prophets'. If so, then what scripture did they deliver?
Because to my knowledge the only known scriptures are: The scrolls (from Abraham), Tewrat (from Moses), Zabur (from David) Injeel (from Jesus) and Quran (from Muhammad) - peace be upon them all.
Looking forward to brother Joseph's answer if my posts on this subject are correct or not.
God bless you too brother,
Selam
120
Prophets and Messengers / Re: How many Prophets?
« on: November 26, 2014, 04:22:47 AM »
Alaikum selam brother Good Logic,
You're welcome, it's a pleasure to discuss with you
Ahaaaaa, so you were referring only to the messengers who delivered scriptures - I seem to have missed this detail. But in your post you mention Noah, Isaac, Jacob, Job, etc. who didn't deliver scripture neither. So, your point is still unclear to me.
Anyways, I'm waiting for my brother Joseph to clarify this matter,
God bless you brother, selam
You're welcome, it's a pleasure to discuss with you
Ahaaaaa, so you were referring only to the messengers who delivered scriptures - I seem to have missed this detail. But in your post you mention Noah, Isaac, Jacob, Job, etc. who didn't deliver scripture neither. So, your point is still unclear to me.
Anyways, I'm waiting for my brother Joseph to clarify this matter,
God bless you brother, selam