Messages

106

General Discussions / Re: 25:72

« on: August 22, 2016, 12:35:51 AM »

Salam

Do those movies have an adverse effect on your faith? You have to be your own judge. Some ppl become good debaters and their faith becomes stronger when they analyse media ( tv/movies) that questions their faith. So just watching them is not something that is sinful if it helps reinforce your faith in God or help u understand Him and Scripture better. Other things which r not religious in nature you can enjoy them. But u have to discern urself I do not know what affects u and what doesn't. This is a very subjective matter without a yes/no answer.

I think I have discussed this topic in detail in my previous replies, pls re-read them. I have nothing else that can make this clearer to u. Maybe someone else can help u understand this better. Appararently, this is bothering u a lot.

God Bless 

107

General Discussions / Re: 25:72

« on: August 14, 2016, 09:32:26 PM »

Salam

The term in 31:6 is ' lawha hadeethi'. We have previously told you that the term means 'useless talk' and also explained how the phrase does not include harmless talking or exchange of information.

31:6
And of the mankind (is he) who purchases, idle tales to mislead from (the) path (of) Allah without knowledge, and takes it (in) ridicule. Those for them (is) a punishment humiliating.

31:7
And when are recited to him Our Verses, he turns away arrogantly as if not he (had) heard them, as if in his ears (is) deafness. So give him tidings of a punishment painful.

In 31:6, Allah is telling us about a kind of people who collect or purchase idle talk/ baseless information about the religion with the intention of misleading others without verifying the authenticity of the religious knowledge he/she gained and is now spreading. This particular kind of people do this knowingly in order to mislead and they do not take the repurcussions of such an action seriously. They take the job of spreading the message about true religion like a sport ( they do not give this the importance it deserves). Can u imagine taking the issue of dawah not seriously? And spreading unverified information as authentic message of God? If someone does this knowingly, this person is knowingly lying about Allah. This is a very serious matter. Even if u do it unknowingly, u end up lying about Allah. So, do not talk about God and religion if u r not sure about the authenticity of the information u r spreading.

In 31:7 , God continues to tell us about the characteristics of such people, that when the true verses of Allah are recited to them, and what they are doing is exposed as a great sin, they refuse to acknowledge their actions and act as if they are deaf. And they continue to do what they were doing as if they have not been warned at all. Instead of stopping the spread of unverified religious information, they continue spreading it in order to mislead millions. For these people, God has reserved severe punishment.

These verses are not talking about the Bible or any other scripture, we know that the Quran says that the Bible has been misread or themes have been misrepresented, but the Quran does not say that the Bible suffered a wholesale corruption. But, if you do not possess enough knowledge and cannot discern between which verses of the Bible have been mistranslated, then the directive for you or any such person is to not spread that message.

We are asked not to talk about God if we are not sure that whatever we are saying is true and authentic. If we are in doubt, it is better to keep quite than lie about God and mislead others as well.

108

General Discussions / Re: Moses and the Calf-Worshippers

« on: August 14, 2016, 08:52:55 AM »

Salam wanderer

In one of my previous posts ( reply number 3) I did clarify that this is a context specific verse. This verse does not call for all idol worshippers of all time to be killed or commit suicide ( however u want to see this command be carried out). This was a command during a time when a Prophet of God was among them, not only one, two ( Prophet Moses and Aaron).

I have also alluded to the possibilty that this command was given as a test to gauge their sincerity and faith in God. If u do believe in God and have faith in Him and a prophet tells you that God wants you to sacrifice your life as a penance for the sins u have committed , why would you disobey if u have unquestionable faith in God? Isn't life a gift from God? If He is offering forgiveness in exchange for life on Earth, why would'nt you take on that offer? U would only disobey, when u do not have staunch faith in God and His prophet.

I believe the command to kill themselves was a test to see how far they would be willing to go to show that they were repentant.

109

General Discussions / Re: Moses and the Calf-Worshippers

« on: August 14, 2016, 08:30:34 AM »

Dear Wanderer

I believe what Br. Joseph is trying to tell us is that he does not agree with Muhammad Asad's interpretation. I am on the same page with Br. Joseph as evidenced by my previous posts. I too beleive that the sin of shirk and of disobeying a prophet is not a trivial one. I do not believe that it was an injuction to kill one's ego or to feel mortified.

God has said in the Quran at other places ( Br. Joseph has kindly provided some verses) that execution as expiation is acceptable. But, exiling them is also an option but execution still remains a viable option.

I do believe that the unbelivers were asked to kill themselves ( whether the believers kill them or they commit suicide does not matter that much, because the point is that the sinners were asked to sacrifice their lives as penance). Now, the subsequent verse goes on to describe how some of them denied to repent and asked to see God! God did cause them to die but resurrected them and also accepted their repentence afterward and provided sustenance for them.

Another point that I feel Br. Joseph was trying to make is that duelling on the details of events of which we are not eyewitnesses do not really serve much purpose as we will not be asked about the actions of our ancestors or descendants by Allah. We will only be accountable for our actions and the events we witnessed.

110

General Discussions / Re: Committing Suicide

« on: August 14, 2016, 06:50:51 AM »

Salam

Intention and ability to discern between right and wrong, one's accountability does depend on these things. So if for some reason we lose our ability to discern between right and wrong and unintentionally or out of ignorance do such a thing surely God will take into consideration our circumstances. Only He knows our past, present and future, our strengths and our weaknesses. In the end, our God is the most merciful and we are assured that not an atom's weight of injustice will occur with any soul on the Day of Resurrection. May God have mercy on us all.

111

General Discussions / Re: Moses and the Calf-Worshippers

« on: August 14, 2016, 06:25:39 AM »

But all that does not mean that Allah asked all unbelievers of all time to kill themselves. It is a context specific verse and also most probably a test designed for Prophet Moses and his people. No where in the Quran other than this verse are unbelievers asked to kill themselves just for being unbelievers and commiting shirk. We are asked not to die as someone who committed shirk but did not repent. God assures us that He accepts the repentence of truly repentant people. This verse can in no way be taken as an injuction for killing unbelievers or as an invitation for unbelievers to kill themselves. We should keep in mind that these particular people were resurrected from death. Others may not be so fortunate and moreover, it is not a commandment for all people of all time. This verse and subsequent verses are rehashing history and telling us what actually transpired during Prophet Moses's ministry. For me these verses paint a picture of a very merciful God , who forgives even shirk and foolish human audacity.

112

General Discussions / Re: Moses and the Calf-Worshippers

« on: August 14, 2016, 06:01:04 AM »

Salam

If I recall correctly and pls correct me if I am mistaken, Prophet Moses sometimes did and say things out of anger which we cannot really think was something he did because Allah asked him to do e.g Prophet Moses broke the slab of stone to pieces on which the commandments of Allah were written. Clearly Allah did not ask Prophet Moses to break it. Prophets are humans, they make mistakes and also sometimes overreacted. There are numerous examples of such incidences .

My take on this verse is that Prophet Moses was very angry and He asked his people to repent and maybe when he said to kill themselves, he meant it is better to die in the eyes of Allah than to remain alive and worship someone/something else. In the next verse we are informed that the people of Moses refused to believe him and told him that they would not believe him unless they could see God for themselves. So they were struck dead after lightning and they were resurrected so that they could finally believe.

So, maybe when Prophet Moses asked them to repent and kill themselves, it was a test from Allah, maybe if they listened and obeyed and repented and killed themselves, they would have been resurrected by Allah anyway, but we will never know because they denied to obey Prophet Moses and demanded to see Allah.

But, still after all that (refusing to repent and kill themselves and having the audacity to demand to see Allah) Allah revived them after death and forgave them and provided provision for them as informed in the subsequent verses.

So, in short these people weren't really killed for disobeying and cow-Worshipping. They were resurrected and remained alive because Allah forgave them. Maybe it was all an elaborate test to see whether they obeyed the Prophet, repented and loved Allah enough to sacrifice their lives for Him in repentance for committing shirk

113

General Discussions / Re: Committing Suicide

« on: August 14, 2016, 04:09:37 AM »

Salam Everyone

Murder or killing of any kind is not taken very lightly. Let's take a look at the circumstances when murder or killing someone is considered justified in the Quran. Murder or killing someone is given as a justified option when a person is proven to cause corruption or in a war or as a recompense for unfair murder of a relative. But in all the above cases God gives us other options too. That of exiling someone who causes corruption, accepting blood money/ forgiving the murderer entirely for unfairly murdering a dear one, taking prisoner of war and releasing them when power is gained over them. In all of these scenarios we can choose mercy over aggression if we want to.

Even during times when committing a murder is justified, we can choose to not do so. But let's take a look at the issue whether suicide is ever justified? In the above scenarios discussed one cannot commit murder before a trial is conducted. In all cases except murders commited in the battlefield, a trial has to take place. So that witnesses can be presented and both sides are given a chance to defend their actions and present their sides of the story. Only after a fair trial can the decision be taken of whether to give the death sentence or not. But, during suicides who is there to judge? Does a trial take place to see whether a suicide is justified? Who is the judge? And how can anyone judge whether a suicide is justified or not? What circumstances can be considered as justified? Disability whether it is a physical one or a mental one, can we really say that a disability is a justified reason to take one's life? Then what is the purpose of the verse where Allah tells us that we will be tested with our health? Health includes both mental and physical health.

At the end of the day what is suicide? It is when u r ur own murderer. U commit a murder and become a murderer nonetheless! If we deserve to be punished for murdering someone else, who is to say we do not deserve a punishment when we murder ourselves! The only difference is if we murder someone there is a possibility we will pay the price both on Earth and in the hereafter. But can we surely say that if we take our own lives we do not deserve to be punished in the hereafter?

God informs us in the Quran that we will be tested with loss of lives, our health, wealth, spouses, family, friends, children and ourselves.

When God says we can be a test for ourselves what does He mean? Could He mean that we can become our enemies as well? How can we become our own enemies? Thankfully God gives us some ideas, examples of scenarios where we can become our own enemies. We become our own enemies when we listen to our desires and give them more importance than what God wants us to do, when we choose to covet others and their lives, strengths and perceived blessings, when we choose to not excersize patience.

It has been informed that we will be subjected to situations in life where we can choose to take two God recommended paths:
1) take the right decision and take right action accordingly
2) excersise patience when we cannot do anything to help ourselves or others in a God recommended way

So there will be times when we are going to be so helpless that we won't have the option to help ourselves during those times it is our ability to remain patient is what is being tested.
Suicide is generally chosen as a last resort, when we feel we are helpless. I am not saying all people who commit suicide are failing a test. Only God can judge. But, if possible we should remain faithful and remain patient that God will show us a way out of our predicament.


003.186 (part)
"Ye shall certainly be tried and tested in your wealth and in yourselves... ...But if you persevere patiently, and guard against evil, then that will be a determining factor in all affairs"

114

General Discussions / Re: 25:72

« on: August 12, 2016, 12:57:12 PM »

Salam Gahaiile

I know that that word is used as ' useless talk' in other places in the Quran. That is why I favor that interpretation. I just couldn't remember/ find the verses to quote. But thank you so much 

115

General Discussions / Re: 25:72

« on: August 12, 2016, 12:41:07 PM »

Salam Gahaille

I did agree that the term means 'useless talk'. I am more inclined towards the interpretation of the word as 'useless talk' but by useless I do not think it includes harmless discussions about books, movies, etc which can be thought of as useless in the context of life in the hereafter. Such discussions do not help us score brownie points with God. But I do beleive we can talk to each other about any topic as long as we do not sin like backbite or spread malicious gossip.

Yahya was very concerned, that anything outside sleeping, eating or any talking outside necessity  (even harmless unnecessary talking ) and praying could be thought of as useless. I wanted to assure him that is not the case.

I mentioned other interpretations because a lot of scholars/ translators do interpret that term differently , so I did not want to present just my point of view which matches with your own interpretation

116

General Discussions / Re: 49:11 women

« on: August 12, 2016, 12:16:15 PM »

Salam Truth Seeker

Sorry I had to repost this,  modifying time for the previous post was up  . I apologise for the inconvinience. But I feel like I am repeating myself and We both understand each of our points but we are not convinced. I think it is time to agree to disagree. This is most probably going to be my last post on this topic but before that I wanted to clarify my position ( u are free to think of this as female gibber-gabber  )

I have posted before that verses were usually revealed in a context sometimes to deal with a particular situation that arose at that time and beleivers wanted divine guidance . I am not denying that the verse was not revealed during an event when women were fighting amongst themselves. It very well maybe. But that does not give us a reason to conclude women in general are more prone to fighting, gossiping or backbiting. And depending on the context the message was written using a male or female subject. But I do not think or believe that either women were singled out because they are more prone to gossiping or that men were singled out because they are more prone to homosexual behaviour. The Quran doesn't say that. The Quran always makes use of a context while giving out a ruling or law but sweeping generalisations were not made in either of the verses we were discussing.

I have shared research because neither does the scripture say such nor is there data to support ur assertion, on the contrary research papers can be found with just the opposite conclusion that men are more prone to gossiping. When scripture does not say such a thing, we have to rely on real life data. But there are researches where women were found to be more prone to gossiping and there are researches where men were found to enjoy gossip more. So, we can conclude that both men and women gossip and the issue is very subjective.

Anyways, we can just agree to disagree. 

117

General Discussions / Re: 49:11 women

« on: August 12, 2016, 11:51:56 AM »

Salam Truth Seeker

I have posted before that verses were usually revealed in a context sometimes to deal with a particular situation that arose at that time and beleivers wanted divine guidance . I am not denying that the verse was not revealed during an event when women were fighting amongst themselves. It very well maybe. But that does not give us a reason to conclude women in general are more prone to fighting, gossiping or backbiting. And depending on the context the message was written using a male or female subject. But I do not think or believe that either women were singled out because they are more prone to gossiping or that men were singled out because they are more prone to homosexual behaviour. The Quran doesn't say that. The Quran always makes use of a context while giving out a ruling or law but sweeping generalisations were not made in either of the verses we were discussing.

Anyways, we can just agree to disagree. 

118

General Discussions / Re: 25:72

« on: August 12, 2016, 09:01:35 AM »

Salam Yahya

Gahaiile was not wrong when he said it means ' useless talk'. Many translators have translated it as such. But many others have also translated the verse as vain talk/ vain activities/ indecent talk/ indecent activities/ sinful talk/ sinful activities etc.

But that does not mean believers cannot engage in a discussion about a cricket match, books, movies etc. We can engage in discussions which are not religious in nature but we should be careful that we do not condone sinful behaviour/activities or participate in sinful behaviour/acitivies at any time.

If previous verses and following verses are studied, the context becomes clear that Allah is talking about the nature/behaviour/activity of  people who are going to be heaven dwellers and people who are going to be dwellers of hell. He describes how heaven dwellers are humble people who do not commit shirk, adultery, murder and even of they do commit these things they become extremely remorseful and repent for their sins. Adding on that, God says that such people do not bear false witness and when they encounter any activity/behaviour not acceptable to God as an activity/ behaviour befitting a believer, they move away without participating in such behaviour/activity keeping their dignity and sinless state intact even after exposure to that sinful environment.

119

General Discussions / Re: 49:11 women

« on: August 12, 2016, 08:05:07 AM »

Salam everyone

I just found a link which talks about two studies where it was found men gossip more than women
https://nicolehart8.wordpress.com/2014/05/08/facts-on-why-guys-gossip-more-than-girls/

Now, I do not believe that men gossip more than women or vice versa cause that is overt generalisation. Studies such as these only prove that the sample for the research had men who gossiped more than the women in that sample. We cannot say such a thing that all over the world men gossip more than women. Such sweeping generalisations are only acceptable when God says such a thing because He knows all of us and He keeps track of everything. But God never said women gossip or backbite more in the Quran. Now, there is research data saying that on the contrary men gossip more. Such research is replete with potholes.

Next there is no research where it is found that men upon belonging to the male gender is more susceptible to homosexual behavior. No man has more chances of becoming homosexual just because his gender is male. Or that females have some kind of protection from incidence if homosexual behaviour just because their gender is female. No one knows for sure why someone experiences homosexual urges. There are scientific papers suggesting it is genetic but there are scientic oapers refuting such a claim as well. Nobody as of yet could prove conclusively why some people are homosexual others are not. Maybe there is no reason and it is just an inclination that is a test designed by God for a chosen few. We do not know because God has not told us that homosexuality is genetic or psychological in the Quran.But, it cannot be conclusively said that gender plays/does not play a role on the tendency or increased/decreased incidence of homosexual behaviour.

120

General Discussions / Re: 49:11 women

« on: August 12, 2016, 06:09:24 AM »

Also about the financial testimony thing, it can also happen that two women's testimonies match with each other but not with that of the man, in such a case the two women's testimonies are accepted or should be accepted. When that happens a financial matter can also become solved using the testimonies of two females. God requires two witnesses and in each scenario He makes sure there are two acceptable witnesses. Acceptable to society, If we think God does not require witnesses, God knows the truth, even when we sin in private and there are no human witnesses. But when it comes to social issues multiple acceptable witnesses are required so that the chance of injusice occuring is reduced. But that does not mean that witnesses cannot be bought r they do notngive false witnesses, multiple witnesses reduce the chance of taht happening even if at a small degree. 

During the 7th century women were not much involved in financial dealings or maybe the people during that time did not find the testimony of women acceptable when it came to matters of business or money. It was not a long time back that it was believed that men were more superior or capable as business men and dealing with money issues.

God does not differentiate but there are some things which have to be done keeping the general attitude of the population in mind, revealing a God's book to a woman at that time or making a woman a Prophet would have only meant one more social dogma to fight for that woman Prophet. Clearly women were not accepted as suitable. God know us and our circumstances. He knew which situations required what to be done. Women's trstimony was not acceptable to society at large not a long time back. God was trying to give rules that were acceptable or would have been accepatable bh Arabs without much social restructuring. And also God knew that more men were educated about money matters back then, requiring women to become witnesses when there were so few womwn who were well versed in finacial matters wouod have given rise to more problems. The whole situation gives a hint that God accepts the testimony of both genders. To Him we are all equal, but not all people in society believe this or behave in such manner.