Re: Wearing trouser/pants below ankle! & Code 19

[Sardar Miyan]

Topic split from original thread:

Wearing trouser/pants below ankle!
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1786.msg8397#msg8397

QM Moderators
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Salam Sister How do you know that Qadada is not 19er? Why did he quote  Rashad Khalifa's translation ? Let Bro Qadada answer.

[Star]

Salam Sardar Miyan,

He probably didn't know it was the Khalifa translation. Or maybe he did, but either way, there's nothing really wrong with that translation. It's not necessary he's a 19er. He can't be one, since he seems to believe in hadiths.

Actually, we should just let him answer.

[Sardar Miyan]

Bro Qadada please answer that you are not 19er.

[Sardar Miyan]

Salam Bro Qadada Why are you not answering my question ? Do you believe in Rashad Khalifa's 19 miracle?

[maverick83pk]

Salam Sardar Miyan,

I know this might be off topic but i have done a bit of research on code 19 and find it convincing, not that i believe that this miracle is there to remove two verses of Quran, but surely it has given me a lot of assurance that there is only one kind of wahy and that Quran is indeed the word of God, and a lot of problems are solved by this code like hafs and warsh recitations and is bismillah part of surah fateha or not.

Near me, to take this code as a something which can altogether remove 2 verses of the quran is a big no no! I know people can call me cherry picking and choosy about this code but that is okay. I think Quran is completely preserved by Allah and this code serves to give further assurance but maybe Allah put those two verses in the Quran as a test, so as to see how many people make this much far fetched and stretch it too wide.

[Sardar Miyan]

Bro lt is not right to say that The Quran is further protected by discury of this code. Firstly the code is
not covering the Quran as it has seval defects. Secondly how was Quran preserved or protected  all
these years? If Rashad Khalifa removes Two Ayaat he had committed great mistake as per which he is
out of Islam. His close associates say RK committed blunder. Please go through Bro Joseph Islam's article on Code 19 which will educate you of RK's blunder. Don't be mislead by this Code which will lead you to be a nonbeliever

[good logic]

Peace brother Sardar.

I cannot find "wearing trouser/pants below ankle" in Qoran. However I find " dress modestly " is in Qoran.

Now for code 19, I have been checking the numbers and I must be one of those "non-believers" as you put it.

Double check this ,regarding surah 9 verses 128 and 129:

Table  below: The 19-based mathematical structure of the Qoran using the verses whose assigned numbers are a multiple of 128 or 129.
Sura (Chapter) ,no. of verses in the sura,No. of verses multiple of 128 or 129,Verse numbers multiple of 128 or 129 and Sum of verses multiple of 128 or 129


2- 286 verses, 4 verses: 128, 129, 256, 258  Totaling:771
3 -200 verses, 2 verses: 128, 129                                257
4- 176 verses 2 verses: 128, 129                                 257
6- 165 verses, 2 verses 128, 129                                 257
7 -206 verses, 2 verses 128, 129                                 257
16- 128 verses 1 verse  128                                         128
20- 135 verses 2 verses 128, 129                                 257
26- 227 verses 2 verses 128, 129                                 257
37- 182 verses 2 verses 128, 129                                 257
                        19 verses                                       Total 2698 (19x142) Equals to the no. of occurrences of the word God (Allah)


Some people rightfully question that if God’s promise is true, then no one should have been able to add the two false verses into the Qoran in the first place. The addition of these false verses is in accordance with God’s master plan. The people who had the Qoran with the additional two verses did not lose any information. The original Qoran is still preserved. The mathematical structure of the Qoran which was destined to be unveiled 1400 years after the Qoran’s revelation proved the impossibility of such tampering, and exposed the hypocrites.
The example above of the mathematical structure of the Qoran based on the number 19 that relates to the false verses 128 and 129 of Sura 9 confirming that they do not belong to the Qoran:
1.There are only 9 suras (chapters) which have 128 or more verses.
2.In these 9 suras, there are only 19 verses which are a multiple of 128 or 129.
3.The sum of these 19 verses add up to 2698 (19 x 142).
4.The number 2698 is not an ordinary number. The Arabic word Allah (God) occurs in the Qoran 2698 times.

Not only do these facts based on the number 19 point to Sura 9, but they also demonstrate how inter-connected this mathematical system is throughout the Qoran. The fact that there are 19 such verses that are multiples of 128 or 129, and that their sum is equal to 2698, the number of times the word God (Allah) mentioned in the Qoran, cannot be a coincidence or a result of personal manipulation.

It should be noted that if these false verses 128 and 129 of Sura 9 are included, then there will be 21 verses which are a multiple of 128 or 129. The sum of those 21 verses would be equal to 2955, not a multiple of 19, nor a number of any significance. Thus the mathematical structure would breakdown.

Of course, this is a minute example of the numerous other physical and verifiable facts discovered in the Qoran based on the number 19. All these facts produce a mathematical system which is perfectly inter-twined and interlocked beyond co-incidence and human manufacture. This mathematical coding is referred in the Qoran to be "one of the great miracles or signs." It provides the first physical evidence that the Qoran is God’s message to the world. This is a tremendous blessing for anybody who is seeking for truth to know that every single word in the Qoran (Arabic original) is a revelation from God Himself, the Almighty, the Most Wise.


Anyway, , it makes me "believe" in Qoran with certainty,not a "non-believer"?

Of course others disagree, but the numbers are there to be checked? There are too many coincidences ,for this code to be fabricated!!!!

GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Hassan A]

Salaam good logic,

The obvious response, for me, to all that you wrote, would be:

If we are to accept the argument that two false verses were added to the Quran, why then did God allow to happen?

To which you gave the following response/answer:

The addition of these false verses is in accordance with God’s master plan.

To which I would follow up by asking what proof, if any, do you have to back up that assertion (i.e. God allowed it to happen as part of His master plan)?

[Star]

Salam

First of all, I am going to do something very hypocritical here. I am going to tell everyone to get back on topic. 19 codes have nothing to do with fashion.

(I said that for political correctness.)

Now I am going to go on discussing the 19 code. (Sorry.) Good Logic: Doesn't the Quran say that God would guard it? If He was guarding it, how did 2 verses somehow get added to it for 1400 years, and we didn't discover it until now?

You might say that the only Quran that is "guarded" is the one on divine tablets in the sky. However, the Quran says "we have sent down the Quran and indeed, We shall be its guardians."

So the Quran being referred to in this verse is the one that was sent down to humanity.

The 19 code makes some sense. I agree, there are too many coincidences for it to be fabricated, but calculations are not a method of verification of the Quran's authenticity. You can't just do calculations and declare verses to be false. You can seriously get in trouble for doing this. (With God, I mean.)

Plus, the 19 code has been debunked quite easily:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/19.htm

I must ask, what made you believe that running algorithms on a computer could determine which part of God's scripture was supposedly "false"? It just doesn't add up--literally.

And yes, some parts of the 19 code are impressive, but you are taking it too far. The Quran might have some type of numerical structure, but it doesn't warrant taking verses out.

I don't mean to incite arguments, and I don't completely disagree with the 19 miracle. I just want to make things clear--we don't take things out of the Quran without valid proof. Period.

Mariyah

[good logic]

Peace Hassan.
My answer to your question is simply this:
وَيَقولونَ لَولا أُنزِلَ عَلَيهِ ءايَةٌ مِن رَبِّهِ فَقُل إِنَّمَا الغَيبُ لِلَّهِ فَانتَظِروا إِنّى مَعَكُم مِنَ المُنتَظِرينَ
[Qoran 10:20] They say, "How come no sign/ miracle came down to him from his Lord?" Say, "The future belongs to God; so wait, and I am waiting along with you."

So the future is now, Technology+ Science +Mathematics is ready to check GOD s message.

GOD tells us that the "book" of Moses also had a code , i.e a proof that it was from GOD:
46:10
قُل أَرَءَيتُم إِن كانَ مِن عِندِ اللَّهِ وَكَفَرتُم بِهِ وَشَهِدَ شاهِدٌ مِن بَنى إِسرٰءيلَ عَلىٰ مِثلِهِ فَـٔامَنَ وَاستَكبَرتُم إِنَّ اللَّهَ لا يَهدِى القَومَ الظّٰلِمينَ

Peace Mia.
Thank you for your post.
I have read your link. Debunked? Read it again ,where is the "debunking"?  If that link provides you with evidence,I must be blind to it?

GOD bless you both.
Peace.

[Star]

Salam,

Sorry, wrong link. Here's the actual debunking one:

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Miracle_of_19

By the way, I'm really sorry if this is against forum rules! WikiIslam seems anti-Islamic, but the rest of the "debunking" sites were either too long or required a download. I absolutely do not agree with the WikiIslamic sentiments, but this specific article does debunk the 19 code pretty well.

Also, you didn't answer my question. Where did you get the idea that you can simply take away Quranic verses because of this code?

(In case you don't want to open the article I mentioned above, just look at the conclusion for a sec:)

This "miracle" of 19 is not a miracle. The actual chance of finding this 'miracle' is 1 in 19 which is not an impressive probability at all.
Equal number of miracles, sometimes more are found in anti-Islamic texts.
Where the Qur'an says, "over it are Nineteen," it was simply talking about the number of angels in Hell. This is also confirmed by Muslim websites.[3] Even Rashad Khalifa, the inventor of 19 'miracles' believes that 19 is the number of Angels in heaven (for him, he sees it as a 'miracle' that everything is 19)
Rashad Khalifa changed or 'corrupted' the Qur'an to highlight the 'miracles' of 19.

This is really all you need to see.

Mariyah

[Star]

Also, Hassan, you said you were going to comment on #2 after gathering your thoughts

[Sstikstof]

Ok. Regarding trouser/pants below or above ankle, I have just found real history behind it. Dont know whether it is true or false as it came from hadith. But it seems logical to me.

Folding up the leg-ware is related to a particular form of dress called the Tehmad (loin cloth). In the times of the Prophet (sws), some people would wear it in a manner that a portion of it would drag behind them. Since this is an expression of arrogance and haughtiness, the Prophet (sws) forbade wearing it in this manner. This directive to fold up leg-ware is therefore not related to forms of dress which are not worn in this manner or this purpose, for example pants, trousers or shalwars.

Also, even in case a person is wearing a Tehmad and his intentions are not to express such arrogance, exceptions can be given -- as is narrated in the following Hadith:

    The Prophet is reported to have said: A person who makes his cloth to dangle after him will not be looked at by the Almighty on the Day of Judgement. At this Abu Bakr said: A portion of my cloth drags on the ground unless I am very careful about it. At this the Prophet replied: You do not do it out of arrogance [so your matter is different]. (Bukhari, Kitabu'l-Libas)

It is imperative that a the basis as well as the nature of a directive mentioned in a Hadith be analyzed before following it. Arrogance and haughtiness are condemned by the Qur'an. So all their manifestations and symbols have been prohibited by the Prophet (sws).

[good logic]

Peace mia.

The simple answer for your question is verses 128 and 129 do not fit in the interlock system . The code locks every letter ,every word every verse and every surah without them two verses.

Also you quoted:
This "miracle" of 19 is not a miracle. The actual chance of finding this 'miracle' is 1 in 19 which is not an impressive probability at all.
Equal number of miracles, sometimes more are found in anti-Islamic texts.

May be you do not understand interlock, or probability?

Let me give you an example : Say I have some different coloured marbles in a bag ,5 yellow,4 green and 3 red.The probability of picking 1 red is 3 out of 12. But the probability of picking 2 reds( say with replacement) is 3/12 x 3/12 which is 9/144 and so on...

Now with the 19 code there are many outcomes.Even a minimum of 10 outcomes you get 1/19 x 1/19 x1/19....10 times  i.e a number close to  zero. An impossibility!!!

I get the feeling you have not looked at the facts or checked them?

Anyway that is your choice, but your new link is even worse at debunking the code that the last one.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Sardar Miyan]

Bro Goodlogic Please don't publicize Code 19 on this forum. Limit yourself to your own forum. Code 19
has made RK a non believer as he had removed the Two Ayaat from his Quran. Please read Bro Joseph
Islam's article on Code 19 & then talk.