Messages

46

General Discussions / Re: Does "Ayat" really mean "verse"? Arabic speakers, please help.

« on: July 19, 2020, 07:24:22 PM »

You may find this resources helpful:
http://www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm

Alif-Ya-Waw = sign, apparent sign, mark, indication, message, evidence, proof, miracle, communication, verse of The Quran. It properly signifies any apparent thing inseparable from a thing not equally apparent so that when one perceives the former, he perceives the other which he cannot perceive by itself.

ayah n.f. (pl. ayat) 2:39, 2:41, 2:61, 2:73, 2:99, 2:106, 2:118, 2:118, 2:129, 2:145, 2:151, 2:164, 2:187, 2:211, 2:219, 2:221, 2:231, 2:242, 2:248, 2:248, 2:252, 2:259, 2:266, 3:4, 3:7, 3:11, 3:13, 3:19, 3:21, 3:41, 3:41, 3:49, 3:49, 3:50, 3:58, 3:70, 3:97, 3:98, 3:101, 3:103, 3:108, 3:112, 3:113, 3:118, 3:164, 3:190, 3:199, 4:56, 4:140, 4:155, 5:10, 5:44, 5:75, 5:86, 5:89, 5:114, 6:4, 6:4, 6:21, 6:25, 6:27, 6:33, 6:35, 6:37, 6:39, 6:46, 6:49, 6:54, 6:55, 6:65, 6:68, 6:93, 6:97, 6:98, 6:99, 6:105, 6:109, 6:109, 6:118, 6:124, 6:126, 6:130, 6:150, 6:157, 6:157, 6:158, 6:158, 7:9, 7:26, 7:32, 7:35, 7:36, 7:37, 7:40, 7:51, 7:58, 7;64, 7:72, 7:73, 7:103, 7:106, 7:126, 7:132, 7:133, 7:136, 7:146, 7:146, 7:146, 7:147, 7:156, 7:174, 7:175, 7:176, 7:177, 7:182, 7:203, 8:2, 8:31, 8:52, 8:54, 9:9, 9:11, 9:65, 10:1, 10:5, 10:6, 10:7, 10:15, 10:17, 10:20, 10:21, 10:24, 10:67, 10:71, 10:73, 10:75, 10:92, 10:92, 10:95, 10:97, 10:101, 11:1, 11:59, 11:64, 11:96, 11:103, 12:1, 12:7, 12:35, 12:105, 13:1, 13:2, 13:3, 13:4, 13:7, 13:27, 13:38, 14:5, 14:5, 15:1, 15:75, 15:77, 15:81, 16:11, 16:12, 16:13, 16:65, 16:67, 16:69, 16:79, 16:101, 16:101, 16:104, 16:105, 17:1, 17:12, 17:12, 17:12, 17:59, 17:59, 17:98, 17:101, 18:9, 18:17, 18:56, 18:57, 18:105, 18:106, 19:10, 19:10, 19:21, 19:58, 19:73, 19:77, 20:22, 20:23, 20:42, 20:47, 20:54, 20:56, 20:126, 20:127, 20:128, 20:133, 20:134, 21:5, 21:32, 21:37, 21:77, 21:91, 22:16, 22:51, 22:52, 22:57, 22:72, 22:72, 23:30, 23:45, 23:50, 23:58, 23:66, 23:105, 24:1, 24:18, 24:34, 24:46, 24:58, 24:59, 24:61, 25:36, 25:37, 25:73, 26:2, 26:4, 26:8, 26:15, 26:67, 26:103, 26:121, 26:128, 26:139, 26:154, 26:158, 26:174, 26:190, 26:197, 27:1, 27;12, 27:13, 27:52, 27:81, 27:82, 27:83, 27:84, 27:86, 27:93, 28:2, 28:35, 28:36, 28:45, 28:47, 28:59, 28:87, 29:15, 29:23, 29:24, 29:35, 29:44, 29:47, 29:49, 29:49, 29:50, 29:50, 30:10, 30:16, 30:20, 30:21, 30:21, 30:22, 30:22, 30:23, 30:23, 30:24, 30:24, 30:25, 30:28, 30:37, 30:46, 30:53, 30:58, 31:2, 31:7, 31:31, 31:31, 31:32, 32:15, 32:22, 32:24, 32:26, 33:34, 34:5, 34:9, 34:15, 34:19, 34:38, 34:43, 36:33, 36:37, 36:41, 36:46, 36:46, 37:14, 38:29, 39:42, 39:52, 39:59, 39:63, 39:71, 40:4, 40:13, 40:23, 40:35, 40:56, 40:63, 40:69, 40:78, 40:81, 40:81, 41:3, 41:15, 41:28, 41:37, 41:39, 41:40, 41:44, 41:53, 42:29, 42:32, 42:33, 42:35, 43:46, 43:47, 43:48, 43:69, 44:33, 45:3, 45:4, 45:5, 45:6, 45:6, 45:8, 45:9, 45:11, 45:13, 45:25, 45:31, 45:35, 46:7, 46:26, 46:27, 48:20, 51:20, 51:37, 53:18, 54:2, 54:15, 54:42, 57:9, 57:17, 57:19, 58:5, 62:2, 62:5, 64:10, 65:11, 68:15, 74:16, 78:28, 79:20, 83:13, 90:19

Lane's Lexicon, Volume 1, pages: 168, 169, 170, 171, 172  ##  http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=ayw

47

General Discussions / What was the difficulty/test mentioned in the "change of qiblah" verses?

« on: July 18, 2020, 08:01:58 PM »

peace all,

Please see here for a much better formatted article (with helpful links embedded):
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/qiblah.html

Please use above link but article cut and pasted below without formatting for reference:

It has recently come to my attention that many people misread these verses and erroneously conclude that the difficulty discussed in 2:143 was the change in "qiblah" (which is what Traditional explanations tend to focus on). In some ways it is understandable that a misreading occurs as we are likely clouded in thinking by the traditional discussions surrounding these verses. I will outline the multiple problems with this traditional understanding:

1) Please pay careful attention to the tense of the words highlighted (green is present/future/imperfect tense, red is past/perfect tense):

2:142 The foolish from the people will say* "What has turned them from the qiblah/focal-point which they were on it**?" Say: "To God is the east and the west, He guides whomever He wishes to a straight/establishing path."
2:143 And as such We have made you a balanced community so that you will be witnesses over the people, and the messenger will be a witness over you. And not We made the qiblah/focal-point which thou were on it** except that We make evident he who follows the messenger from he who will turn back on his heels. And indeed it was certainly a great/difficult (thing/test) except for those whom God guided; And not was God to let go waste your belief. Indeed, God is over the people Fully-Kind and Merciful.
2:144 Indeed, We see thy face/consideration moving in the sky/heaven; so surely We will turn thee (onto/to) a qiblah/focal-point that will please thee: so turn...
*i.e. they will say in the future, obviously AFTER the change in qiblah/focus occurs. This is also made clear by use of the prefixed future particle "sa" in the Arabic.
**compare these occurrences.

Hopefully it should now be clear that the great/big (thing/test) was being on the 1st qiblah (i.e. the one prior to the change). However, we can also verify this using what else The Quran says.

2) It is clear from 2:144 that the change in qiblah (or the 2nd qiblah) will please the messenger. Therefore if you think that the change in qiblah was the difficult thing (as is traditionally discussed) then this will conflict with the messenger being pleased about it. Is he pleased for him (and his community) to undergo a great difficulty? Yes/No.

3) If, for some reason, you answer "yes" to the above it is refuted by 2:144 when it says "Indeed, We see thy face/consideration moving in the sky/heaven; so surely We will turn thee (onto/to) a qiblah/focal-point that will please thee...". This is taken by everyone (that I have read) to mean the messenger was seeking guidance, he was somewhat unsettled/uncomfortable, and we may even say not as pleased (relatively speaking) on the 1st qiblah (prior to the change). To make it even clearer:

We see thy face/consideration moving in the sky/heaven (i.e. currently on the 1st qiblah, less pleasing)
so
surely We will turn thee (onto/to) a qiblah/focal-point that will please thee (i.e. on/to the 2nd qiblah, more pleasing)

This matches with 2:143 in which it is said the 1st/prior qiblah was difficult. It ties together perfectly.

4) Furthermore, this is confirmed in 2:150 when it gives us the reasons for the change (or what the change in qiblah will result in) e.g. "so that not will be for the people against you debate/argument". Obviously being in a situation of less argument/hostility would be more pleasing i.e. a positive, further solidifying that the 1st qiblah which they were on (probably involving more argument/hostility) was the difficult one.


All information confirms and reinforces each other, that being on the 1st qiblah was the difficulty spoken of in 2:143.


Note: I am simply using the terminology "1st qiblah" and "2nd qiblah" to make this article easier to follow. In the article on "al masjid al haram" it is highlighted that The Quran tells us there could be many qiblah, each person could have their own qiblah etc. This makes sense with the term qiblah being related to wijhatun (course, goal, motive, direction) in 2:148. To read further discussion please see the article.
After reading these articles you may wish to try slotting in whatever understanding you have of "qiblah" and "al masjid al haram" and what the 1st qiblah was etc to see if you can make sense of the verses. There is a high chance you will fail and/or be unable to explain the various issues brought up in these verses. If you come up with something that fits (different to my own understanding) please share it here.

It is ironic to think that some may read the above, ignore the problems and stick with their current view. Akin to turning back on their heels unable to face the truth. Maybe it's time to change direction?

IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER:

This work reflects my personal understanding, as of 17th July 2020. Seeking knowledge is a continual process and I will try to improve my understanding of the signs within 'the reading' (al quran) and out with it, unless The God wills otherwise. All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

More articles: http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/

48

General Discussions / Re: How is the Quran "fully detailed"?

« on: July 13, 2020, 04:56:44 AM »

IVt also doesn't tell us how to check our blood pressure, how to brush our hair, how to brush our teeth, what the name of Moses' dad was, what all the Jewish sects were at the time Quran was revealed etc etc


When you buy a self-assembly desk from IKEA and it comes with instructions which say they are fully detailed or has everything we need to know...   what is it referring to?

49

General Discussions / Re: Why is following your desires shirk?

« on: July 13, 2020, 04:52:43 AM »

peace,

You may wish to research what following desires is contrasted to in Quran.

50

General Discussions / Re: Native Arabic Speakers: Help please

« on: May 05, 2020, 02:52:05 AM »

If you feel it is irrelevant which word Quran used i.e. messenger or prophet, then that's up to you.

They must become Muslims believing in Allah and Muhammad.

An article you might find interesting:
https://www.free-minds.org/mumins

51

General Discussions / Re: Native Arabic Speakers: Help please

« on: May 04, 2020, 01:46:34 AM »

On the corpus website it tells you the grammar of each word and you can click on the word if you want to examine its usage in Quran.
Further, this website will help as it lists all the times it is used in the perfect separately and imperfect separately:
http://www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm


Re: 48:13

I have to say that I disagree with this. While Quran 48:13 in context talks about the Jews/Christians at the time of the prophet and then starts by saying [paraphrasing] "whoever disbelieves in Allah and his messenger is a disbeliever"

The verse begins with "wa" / "and".

"His messenger" = prophet Muhammad. This is singular, not plural. So this is talking about a specific prophet, not all the other prophets specifically. This specific prophet is Prophet Muhammad (which you also understand from reading the context).

What do you think?

Did you read the link I provided? I am not talking about which messenger it is. I am talking about the difference in role words, i.e. between prophet and messenger.

Also Quran chapter 98:1-2 makes it clear that the disbelievers must believe this Prophet (singular, not plural) is a prophet of Allah and Quran 98:6 says those among the people of the book and polytheists who disbelieve will be punished.

Those verses dont use "nabi" / "prophet".


Also bear in mind wiki-islam focuses on critique of islam, as stated on its about page.

52

General Discussions / Re: Native Arabic Speakers: Help please

« on: May 01, 2020, 09:09:07 PM »

Few points:

2:62 and 5:69 are in the perfect/past tense, see http://corpus.quran.com/

48:13 is linked to previous verses, check context

you have changed "His messenger" into "prophet Muhammad". Are they the same?


Ponder.

53

Islamic Duties / Re: Quran and 2:184 - what is the correct translation?

« on: April 26, 2020, 04:42:17 PM »

New article:

Quran and 2:184 - what is the correct translation?
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-sawm-fasting.html


Feedback welcome, especially corrections.

A timely reminder since some may be fasting at the moment.

54

General Discussions / Re: Top 10 problems due to Traditional Islam

« on: April 25, 2020, 05:37:49 PM »

w/salaam,

Not a top 10 but does list the many ways Traditional Islam may differ from Quran based islam.

55

General Discussions / Re: Jumua and Congressional prayers during coronavirus

« on: April 03, 2020, 06:13:29 AM »

There is no explicit verse AFAIK. According to 4:102 not even illness is an exception to participating in the timed-salat.

Of course, it will depend on the congregational element of one's understanding.

56

General Discussions / Re: Is this a Quran contradiction? "Thumma" vs "Fa"

« on: December 29, 2019, 12:40:35 AM »

I believe I first heard of this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIiVlO88D5o

I don't have access to Arabic works because I don't speak Arabic. Maybe you can let me know?

Thanks. I watched the video, and I have seen his videos before. He did not cite a reference and the example he gave from Quran was weak when looking at the surrounding verses that use thumma also. We must remember that formalisation of grammar rules are post-Quran.

57

General Discussions / Re: If historians accept Hadiths as the historical truth, then why shouldn't we?

« on: December 29, 2019, 12:37:08 AM »

Academic historians may cite Traditional Muslim sources such as the ones you mention in their works or when teaching etc but I would be surprised an academic of any merit would say something along the lines of "these are indisputable facts that occurred in the life of the prophet". That is why I asked for references.

For example, I have watched some lectures by Professor Fred Donner (and read some of his works) and he often adds phrases such as "if these reports are to be believed.." etc.

58

General Discussions / Re: If historians accept Hadiths as the historical truth, then why shouldn't we?

« on: December 27, 2019, 02:58:11 AM »

Many historians accept Hadiths as historical truth.

Can you provide some references for that?

Background:
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Rethinking_Tradition_Modern_Islamic_Thought.htm
https://ahadithstudies.wordpress.com/2011/03/25/michael-cook-early-opponents-to-the-writing-of-tradition-hadith/

59

General Discussions / Re: Is this a Quran contradiction? "Thumma" vs "Fa"

« on: December 27, 2019, 02:54:12 AM »

Background: So "thumma" means "then" in English, but it means a long period of time has commenced before the two events. "fa" also means "then" in English, but it means a short period of time has commenced before the two events.

Do you have a classical Arabic reference for that?

60

General Discussions / Re: What does the word Islam means

« on: December 02, 2019, 06:35:00 AM »

peace TS,

Mubashir asked what does "Islam" (with a capital I) mean. The answer is it is a meaningless title. However when he mentions lexicon and root word he is obviously referring to its underlying meaning, its origin etc NOT as a title. Hence my answer.

It's like asking what does "John" mean. Well, perhaps the name originally had a meaning but to a person named John it is almost entirely irrelevant, as he may embody the original meaning, he may not.

You claim a capitalised meaningless word has been assigned as a religion by God? That is illogical. It is only true if one embodies the meaning.

If I were to translate that part of 5:3 I would render it as:

"...and I have approved for you submission/peacemaking as an obligation/system..."

Now it makes sense...... to me at least.


Reference:
https://www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/more.htm