Messages

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General Discussions / Re: Qur'an 11:71 Isaac and Ishmael

« on: August 25, 2013, 06:37:20 PM »

You ask How was the vision completed if Abraham (SA) did not complete the sacrifice but was stopped? The vision was completed because God says so in 37:105 "You have fulfilled the vision." So God says the vision has been completed and you say it has only been partially completed....this is because you are erroneously assuming that Abraham completed the vision by actually killing his son.When God says "you have fulfilled the vision", it means that everything Abraham saw in his dream has come to pass.

Why would Allah ask for the murder of an innocent child? Is this something Allah would do and that too from an obscure dream? Does Allah sanction murder or human sacrifice? You said before that a "timeless Allah can not be expected to do things in a time-dependent way that we humans look at the world." This was a test for Abraham, God knew the results before the test....if Abraham failed, the boy would be alive, if Abraham passed the test, the boy would still be alive. So we can safely say the vision was never a request to kill or sacrifice the son but a test of Abraham's willingness to do so. Abraham was an old man who had longed for a child for many years. You can only imagine how much he would have loved his son. Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son indeed shows us how much faith he had in God. Asking for someones most treasured possession is indeed the ultimate test.

Where does the Qur'an say that Allah was responsible for the dream? In the verse quoted earlier. It seems clear to me and am sure many others will agree. And it is also clear in the context of the verses and the entire Qur'an as stated earlier. It might not be written exactly as you want it but its there nonetheless.

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General Discussions / Re: Qur'an 11:71 Isaac and Ishmael

« on: August 25, 2013, 09:24:10 AM »

The point I was making was that it was Ishmael that was sacrificed and not Isaac as the article on here claimed. You have neither supported nor rejected that argument.

However, regarding your discussion.... you think that “.....Unless of course that it was never from Allah, but they thought it was Allah and submitted to it. Then Allah stopped them and they were rewarded for attempting to fulfil something they mistakingly thought was from Him.” I find no support for this logic anywhere in the Quran. Allah does not reward us for obeying Satan, even though who do it mistakenly. We are punished for that....and this is consistent throughout the Quran. If Abraham had been mistaken, this would have been clearly stated in the Qur’an. We would also have seen him apologetic and repentant as was the case with Adam.

You ask “How can a vision be fulfilled if the child wasn't sacrificed?” When Abraham consulted with his son, he said “O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!" My understanding is that in the dream, Abraham visualised himself placing his son face down on the altar preparing for the sacrifice. The dream concludes at this point.  Abraham understands what he needs to do, gets his sons approval and they both submit.

Qur’an 103:105 And when they had both submitted and he put him down upon his forehead, We called to him, "O Abraham, You have fulfilled the vision." Indeed, We thus reward the doers of good.

To make it clear, the dream concludes at the point God stops Abraham....hence fulfilling the vision. Also please note the  “...We thus reward the doers of good.” What Abraham did was good not mistaken submission as you may claim.

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General Discussions / Re: Qur'an 11:71 Isaac and Ishmael

« on: August 24, 2013, 10:39:59 AM »

I am pleased with myself actually. I have been going through this website for a couple of weeks now, and i was in agreement with almost everything....until this. I was beginning to wonder how one person could be so right and the many of us in error. I must say brother Joseph and all those involved have done a very wonderful job. It would be even nicer if the online or media presence was alot more than this....like youtube videos, debates and discussions with other Muslims etc. There are many scholars online doing a good job, but none with this approach to understanding Islam. Our ummah is in dire need of going back to the Quran.

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General Discussions / Re: Qur'an 11:71 Isaac and Ishmael

« on: August 24, 2013, 10:12:53 AM »

I'm not sure whether the Qur'an asked Abraham to sacrifice his son, other than Abraham (SA) had a dream / vision and wasn't quite sure
This wasn't merely a dream/vision but a commandment from God as we can see in the sons reply.... "O my father, do as you are commanded...."

Why would he ask his son if he knew it was an INSTRUCTION from Allah (swt)  We know that the Quran, among many things, has come also to correct the errors found in the previous scriptures. While in the Bible he does not consult  with his son, he instead lies that God would provide a lamb when his intention was to sacrifice him. The Qur'an corrects these errors and also shows us that both father and son were submissive.

...and where does the Quran say the dream was from Allah? In verse 37:104-105 "We called to him, "O Abraham, You have fulfilled the vision." Indeed, We thus reward the doers of good" and also in 2:124 “And (remember) when his (Abraham’s) Lord tried Abraham with (various) commandments, to which he proved true...”

Also ...the logic you have stated, in my personal opinion is no different from asking if God had a plan for Adam's progeny anyway, why did he have to place a tree in the way, so that they could sin first? I do not think that is anywhere near the same thing. Lets try again....God tells Abraham that he will have a son called Isaac, and after, Isaac would have a son called Jacob. Now this is not just a promise but a statement from God of what is going to happen. Abraham and any believer would know that this would happen no matter what...for Gods word is true. Now if Abraham believed this and later God tells him to kill Isaac....Abraham would be like "but wait, You said Isaac was going to father Jacob...how can that be if I kill him?" Now this would indeed be untrustworthy and deceitful of God astagfurllah. This not being an attribute of God, Abraham would never have worshiped Him.

For the case of Adam and the tree, God never lied to them. He stated ..."do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers." (Unlike in the Bible by the way.)


 

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General Discussions / Qur'an 11:71 Isaac and Ishmael

« on: August 23, 2013, 04:55:57 PM »

As salaam alaikum, having read through the article on Ishmael and Isaac, I would like to share my opinion.


Qur'an 11:71 "And his Wife was standing, and she smiled. Then We gave her good tidings of Isaac and after Isaac, Jacob."

Please note that after Isaac, there was Jacob. Also in the Bible God promises Abraham descendants from Isaac.

Genesis 17:19 God says “Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.”

Would it be logical for God to promise Abraham a covenant with the seed of Isaac (as in the Bible) or to state that Jacob will come after Isaac (as in the Qur'an) and then later ask Abraham to kill Isaac before Isaac has any seed? No, I don't think so.  Ishmael on the other hand had no mention of a  progeny after him therefore he would be a suitable candidate for sacrifice.

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Islamic Duties / Re: Qur'an 5:6

« on: August 23, 2013, 03:06:35 AM »

Also the method of bathing the whole body is outlined in secondary sources....does the Quran have any specifics or does simply bating the whole body suffice. thanks

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Islamic Duties / Qur'an 5:6

« on: August 20, 2013, 06:12:04 PM »

Asalam alaikum.... a few questions regarding this verse

"O ye who believe! when ye prepare for prayer, wash your faces, and your hands (and arms) to the elbows; Rub your heads (with water); and (wash) your feet to the ankles. If ye are in a state of ceremonial impurity, bathe your whole body. But if ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands, God doth not wish to place you in a difficulty, but to make you clean, and to complete his favour to you, that ye may be grateful."

1."....If ye are in a state of ceremonial impurity, bathe your whole body......" what is the Quranic definition of ceremonial impurity?
2."....But if ....you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women,..." I understand from here that passing wind doesn't break wudu since its not mentioned in the verse. However, does sleep necessitate wudu....if one had wudu before going to bed, could he simply wake up to perform fajr without wudu considering of course that he has not had sex or gone to the toilet?
3. Is it necessary to have clean clothes to perform swalah?

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General Discussions / Re: Space exploration?

« on: August 20, 2013, 05:41:49 PM »

How can we penetrate the entire expanse of the universe? The Quran says we can.....but with a great authority. Maybe scientific maybe spiritual? Possibly by a worm hole since the distance is too great to traverse. But then what happens when we come out on the other side? No space, no time?

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General Discussions / Re: Space exploration?

« on: August 20, 2013, 11:31:02 AM »

Thank you brother. I have my doubts though....how is it possible to travel beyond the realms of the heavens and the earth? This is an impossible feat, therefore I think there is more to it.
 

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General Discussions / Space exploration?

« on: August 15, 2013, 06:59:32 PM »

Qur'an 55:33 "O ye assembly of Jinns and men! If it be ye can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, pass ye! not without authority shall ye be able to pass!"

As salaam alaikum. Please can anyone shed some light on this verse. Does it refer to some sort of space exploration or something else? Thanks