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Women / Re: Women's clothes and rape?
« on: April 13, 2019, 10:35:40 PM »Asalamu 3alykum
33:59 O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.
It is worth to mention that this verse has been revealed to the prophet to tell only his wives, daughters and the believing women to draw over themselves their clothing so that they are not abused, or troubled.
This verse is surrounded by verses where there is abuse/insults being spread or said about God, the prophet, believing men and believing women. There is no instruction to fight against such insults as the only punishment is one that is deferred to another life(33:57-58).
However there is a threat from God that if and only if the hypocrites do not stop inciting hatred and false rumours against the believers which could cause corruption and disturbance in a land and the killing of innocent people then God will grant victory to the believers by way of fighting(33:60-61)
So that being said there is nothing to suggest to me that the word "yu'dhayna" in verse 33:59 means molesting. As this would directly be an act of severe transgression, rape, or violence and would arguably result in immediate retaliation and one that is just as bad or even worse than what is happening in 33:60-61.
The verse above does give guidance to those who are God conscious and who seek to be chaste married or unmarried on how to dress and not be troubled or insulted by the disbelievers or anyone.
Interesting. It says "women of the believers" as well
Yes, I agree with modest/decent dressing for both and that it is not a "protection" against harm.
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Well true muslims should not give off that impression and I'm sure they understand women and men have desires and it is well known from the Quran that a man and women can fall into sin not juts a man. (24:2). Another example is in the story of prophet Joseph and the wife of the king.
Yes, I mentioned that example in another post. It should definitely be quoted more in my opinion. Especially because she was a married woman.
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Regardless of where this was rooted from, a person man or women who desires to be a believer and seek to abide by the laws of God will know that God strongly condemns adultery/sin (24:2).
Those who are Muslim men and think because of their urges they are able to commit adultery/sin are only fooling themselves.
However we also have to admit that adultery/fornication is not the same as a marriage bond. This needs to be appreciated. If a women has urges then they must commit to a marriage bond which has rules. Like wise for a man.
Of course! In my second post at the top, I showed a justification that was given for polygyny as a sort of protection from "inclination to sin", which is not just a male problem in the first place.
Patience, resposibility, self-constraint and control. How would it be a test otherwise?
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I'll take your word for it
It's not just my word. You can even google this. There are also women who are frustrated because of their male partner's "low libido". Not everyone is the same.
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There is times where a man or a women cannot find marriage and God instructs them to be patient 24:33 no matter how great the appetite for sexual relations are.
Therefore the permissibility for polygyny is not so much only to satisfy ones needs. There is wider wisdom possibly only known to the Lord Himself.
I'm more inclined to agree with this or that there is a more benefitical reason for the permissibility.
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I'm sure some do not do it because they understand it hurts their families in days like today. But is it right to twist the words of God and try to some how ban it?
And maybe men who just don't want it?
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We men are also possibly puzzled because we know that it hurts some of our wives and daughters and mothers. We see their curiosity as to why. But what do we do? Ban it, forbid it?
As I’m sure you will appreciate that we are believers of the Quran and accepted the Quran's veracity and believe the origin of the Quran to be from the Lord. Just because we are not able to fathom or comprehend the reason behind why God has allowed polygany for a man, we cannot simply forbid it or sweeten the message to the liking of others which I've noticed muslim men have tried to do at certain points.
I did not "ban" it. There are, however, other interpretations too, also ones which take orphans into account.
My main problem is the fact that some men seem to think it's okay to marry for sex/looks or the idea that men struggle far more. Also, because a verse says that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was forbidden to marry more women even if their "beauty" pleased him, it apparently somehow applies to all believing men and is a sound reason for polygyny? I don't understand this interpretation/reasoning. I also don't want to believe that God acknowledges men's sexuality more and how some generalize all men as being "naturally" polygamous..
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Todays world is changing fast. As always it changes in different directions all the time. From good to bad, from bad to good, or whatever roots the people choose.
It could be argued that this life is not always so pleasant and calm and will never be a heavenly abode, and the events that have unfolded in the past or will unfold in the future will possibly carry the answers to such questions and why God has chosen these rights to whatever of His creation. He encompasses all things. There does seem from a historic standpoint that women were not always against polygany so much as to how women are today. Was there something that caused or led it to be acceptable to some point? or was it a need in the world? Will it happen again?
Just some thoughts I ask myself.
God knows best.
I have also wondered that perhaps this "ruling" was not always there.
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As believing men we need to understand these questions also. Its our duty to try to share as best as possible the message of God to our sisters, wives, mothers, etc. and vice versa.
We need to understand that women are going to be somewhat saddened and not comprehend as to why God has allowed it and we men will also possibly not understand its comprehension as well.
Insha'Allah other ladies would comment and give their views as well, and please do not think we are against you but take it as we also have thought about it and just sharing to what we understand best.
Peace
I know there are good and understanding men out there who want to listen.... at least, I try to believe so.
I might also just be tired of having to defend Islam to others and myself over and over.
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God knows best
True.
Peace.