Messages

121

General Discussions / Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!

« on: January 05, 2014, 03:52:39 PM »

Which one do you think rightly fits into the intention of the Author of Al Qur'an?

Salaam!

I do not want to probe the “intention”…..but contextually, it is suffice to state that, wherever the word ‘yaum’ is used in the Quran it does not necessarily mean ‘day’ which is only 24 hours long….it could be time, or period, or age, or some ‘stage’ as maaliki yaumid deen (1:3). ….. and all this according to man’s calculations can be a thousand years long: summa ya’ruju ilaihi fi yaumin kaana miqdaaruhu alfa sanatin mimma tu’addoon: 32:5 obviously here yaum means either stage or era or evolutionary period; this yaum is sometime fifty thousand years long as mentioned in verse 70:4.

Nowhere is it written that banning ownership of land is a remedy for injustice.

It is a major offence against humanity someone becoming owner of means of subsistence which are freely given by Allah for the benefit of whole humanity.  Even using our logic alone we can easily understand the issue.

1.   Land and other means of subsistence existed on earth before the creation of man. Now viewed from any angle and rule of any law based on justice, can anyone be held as an owner of these resources of subsistence (heat, light, air, water, and land) which should be available indiscriminately for the life’s sustenance.   Today you can say that you have purchased this piece of land from such and such person, or you got it from your father by way of inheritance. You go on inverting this sequence and reach that person who had first claimed this land as his own property; you can imagine that from whom he had purchased this, or from whom he had inherited?  How do you ensure that the lands obtained initially or the subsequent purchases done are devoid of any fraudulent transactions?  How it could be lawful for him or for his successors subsequently to hold it under their possession?

2.   How can you satisfactory resolve the problem of large capital attracting small capital?   The humanity is slowly moving to a direction where the land will be in the possession of small group of wealthy people.  I was to my native country last week and I notice that the land value has increased two to three folds in just one year (it is over 10-15 times in the last 5 year alone).   People with purchasing power are accumulating the land and it has become beyond the reach of more than 70% of the people in our area to purchase any land to build a house or to set up any business.  At the moment, only those who have inherited the land from their forefathers are in a safe position....but this "safety" also will be over after one generation or two because the land is getting divided into children and at one stage they will be forced to sell the land to any wealthy man (who offers more money) and divide the money among them because the share of land will be so limited to use it for any individual purpose.  A major crisis stage is slowly approaching. 

More points later.

Industrialists need not necessarily be evil forces.

I did not say all industrialists are evil forces.  But it is just a fact that,  in all countries, only a handful of individuals and industrialists control most of the wealth of the nation.  Capitalist system is a system in which large capital attracts small capital.  The Quran has explained this problem through the following incident from prophet David (38:23-25).

Two disputants came to David and requested him to resolve their issue.  The plaintiff said - This man is my brother and he has a flock of ninety-nine ewes and is thus well to do.  I have only one which is my sole source of income.  And instead of giving up some ewes from his stock to help his poor brother, he is asking me to give my only ewe to him.  (Since he is rich and influential) He always prevails in argument (in a capitalist system such apparent contradiction can be easily justified).  This is the attitude of my brother.  Now tell me is his attitude allowable or not?  When prophet David pondered over this episode deeply, he came to the conclusion that it was a case of an extreme unjust economic system, in which large capital attracts the smaller capital.  The outcome is that the rich become richer and the poor become poorer; and gradually the gap between these two groups widens.

Nor does the incidence at Madyan, or the episode of Saleh, clearly and unequivocally relate to ownership of land.

Even a child should be able to understand it is clearly and unequivocally relate to people controlling the natural resources and exercising ownership over them.

Regards,
Optimist

122

General Discussions / Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!

« on: January 04, 2014, 12:49:26 PM »

Where is the clear cut evidence in the Qur'an that in the time of Salih (peace be on all God's prophets), the question was that of monopolizing of grazing grounds?

Actually it does not require much intelligence to know the problem of monopolizing of grazing grounds was the issue.   Just the following single verse 26:155 is sufficient to prove this point.   Prophet Salih suggested fixing up the turns of the animals irrespective of the animal belonging to whom which the monopolists objected and went even to the extent of killing the camel.   

[Mohamed Asad] Replied he: "This she-camel shall have a share of water, and you shall have a share of water, on the days appointed [therefor].

[Yousuf Ali] He said: "Here is a she-camel: she has a right of watering, and ye have a right of watering, (severally) on a day appointed.

Cultivated land is what is generally held as private property. Who in the world, has ever prohibited this?

No wonder you mentioned “generally held as private property”.  You have to remove from your mind all pre-conceived notions to understand Quranic points. 

According to the Quran, whatever in the heavens and on earth belong to Allah alone.  The earth is the medium for the production of all means of subsistence, which are provided freely for the benefit of humanity.  Wind, water, light, heat and the earth, all of which exist for our sustenance and are freely given by Allah, should actually be left equally open for all human being.

[Muhammed Asad] For He [it is who, after creating the earth,] placed firm mountains on it, [towering] above its surface, and bestowed [so many] blessings on it, and equitably apportioned its means of subsistence to all who would seek it: [and all this He created] in four aeons. (41:10)

And the earth – We have spread it out wide, and placed on it mountains firm, and caused [life] of every kind to grow on it in a balanced manner,  and provided thereon means of livelihood for you [O men] as well as for all [living beings] whose sustenance does not depend on you (15:19-20)

And the earth has He spread out for all living beings (55:10)

Weigh, therefore, [every decision and act] with equity, and cut not the measure short!(55:9)

From the above, it should be clear that all natural resources are God given, and their purpose is to sustain the whole of humanity.  For this no one has the right to create artificial barriers and divisions and declare ownership of these resources. 

All [of them] – these as well as those – do We freely endow with some of thy Sustainer's gifts, since thy Sustainer's giving is never confined [to one kind of man] (17:20)

In our times especially, there is more prominence for mining, quarrying, power production, protected wild life sanctuaries, etc; outside cultivated fields.

In our times, even things like mining, quarrying and power productions are privately owned and these evil forces even control governments in countries like India

Regards,
Optimist

123

General Discussions / Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!

« on: January 03, 2014, 02:52:05 PM »

Continued from initial post;

The Land belongs to Allah alone :-

To state this fact, the Quran has quoted an event of the people of Thamud. It states that cattle-rearing was the means of livelihood of the people of Thamud. There were open grazing lands and water points in the surroundings, but the leaders of that nation had kept them under their individual control. Due to this, cattle of the weaker sections used to remain hungry and thirsty. Prophet Saleh raised voice against the oppression and violence of those chiefs who asked him as to what he wanted finally. He replied: ‘I want that as this land belongs to Allah, it is neither yours nor mine, and these cattle are also created by Him. Therefore, these animals should have freedom to graze on the land of their Allah. In what way you have the right that you fix up boundaries on arzullah (land of Allah) this way that His creatures cannot cross the boundaries fixed by you on His land (7:73; 11:64).

"This she-camel of Allah is a Sign unto you: So leave her to graze in Allah's earth, and let her come to no harm, or ye shall be seized with a grievous punishment"(7:73)

In the land of Madyan, an event of this kind had occurred with Prophet Moses where the herdsmen of the tribal chiefs did not allow the cattle of weak and feeble girls to take water from the water points (28:23). 

The people of Saleh asked him ‘What should be the practical approach to this problem?’ Prophet Saleh said: ‘This is a very simple matter. You fix up the turns of the animals irrespective of the animal belonging to whom; it should take water at its turn.’ (26:155; 91:13). The meaning of ‘fixing the turns’ itself is that this is not the personal property of anyone. This is for the benefit of everyone.

The land is the means of livelihood for the entire mankind; it cannot become anybody’s personal property and giving it practically under the ownership of individuals is paganism, it is kufr.

                                                                                                      .........to be continued
Regards,
Optimist

124

General Discussions / Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!

« on: January 03, 2014, 02:35:38 PM »

Salaam.

The Hereafter is based wholly on the freedom of the individual regarding capacity, ownership, needs, etc.

Any Government is entitled to a very limited portion, just enough to carry out the various aspects of Administration.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

Wassalam,
I feel like you meant to post this in the other thread we already discussed! I can't find any link to the topic.
Regards,
Optimist

125

General Discussions / In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!

« on: December 27, 2013, 04:05:04 PM »

Salaam!

In the divine system every individual works to full capacity, but keeps only what he needs, whilst leaving the remainder of his earnings open for the benefit of society. 

And they ask you as to what they should spend (in God's cause). Say: ‘Whatever is surplus to your needs’ (2:219)

In the divine system the responsibility of ensuring that sustenance reaches each and every member of society falls on the administration (11:6).  It will take care of their children as well (17:31)

The Quran says:  “Satan threatens you with the prospect of poverty and bids you to be miserly (fahsha) - Whereas God promises you His forgiveness (ghafr) and bounty” (2:268).  (The word ghafr is usually translated as ‘forgive’, the word ghafr actually means “protect” or “succor”).

In the above, the Quran has explained the difference between man-made and divine system in just a few words.  In the former every individual is responsible for meeting his own needs, and in this type of society the individual is worried only about his own future. He lives in constant fear of a day in which he is unable (for whatever reason) to provide for himself and his children.  He is forced to live in the fear of threat of poverty.  This powerful feeling of insecurity is the underlying root of the need to hoard to the grave (102-1-2)

In the divine system no one shall be allowed to hoard wealth and hoarding of wealth will be considered a grave crime with dire consequences (9:35). 

But as for those who lay up treasures of gold and silver and do not spend them for the sake of God – give them the tiding of grievous suffering (in the life to come) (9:34)

The words infaaq fe sabil-allah in the above verse is usually translated as ‘spend in the path of God’ needs proper explanation.  Nafaq (from which infaaq is derived) refers to a tunnel that is open at both ends (the antonym of nafaq is sarb, which is a one-way tunnel closed at the other end.  The meaning of infaaq in the Quran is to leave resources open to everyone.  In the Quran, in fact, bukhal is used as the antonym of infaaaq.  Bukhal means ‘stinginess’ or ‘meanness’, i.e to ‘to keep to oneself’, or ‘to hold onto’ or ‘hoard’.  Contrary to this, the meaning of infaaq is to ‘keep open’ for the benefit of everyone, or ‘open up’, and to ‘remove restrications’.  Therefore any society that bases itself on the principle of infaaq fi sabil-allah is one in the which every individual leaves open the fruit of his labour for the benefit of the collective. He/she will not place restrictions on what he/she gives away.  Every member of this society will constantly keep the interest of the whole in mind, thus place the collective interest above self interest.

An aside:  according to one hadith: Ibn-e-Abbas says that when this verse (9:34) was revealed to the messenger, the believers were confounded. They became heavy-hearted.  Umar Ibn Khattab said to them, ‘I will take your trouble away and ease your hardship’.  Thereupon Umar went to the Messenger and beseeched him. ‘Oh Messenger of God! This verse has troubled your companions. The Messenger replied. ‘This is why God has made Zakaat obligatory, so that the rest of wealth will become purified: and (similarly), inheritance laws have been made obligatory to ensure that those you leave behind after death will receive your wealth’. Upon hearing the Messenger’s reply, Umar happily declared : “God is great! (Abu Dhaud, citing from Mishqaat, chapter Kitab al Zakaat)[/i]

It is clear from the tone of the above hadith that it is an invented hadith. Numerous verses testify that the believers hearts would never become ‘heavy’ at hearing a divine command (See 8:2, 13:28, 16:22, 22:35, 23:60, 48:4, 58:22).  In fact it is the hypocrites whose hearts become heavy at hearing divine commandments (e.g. 47:24, 9:125)

In the divine system neither the land nor its resources can be taken into private ownership.  These are left open for the benefit of all (41:10)

In Surah Al Ra’d, it is said that an idea struck the mind of the prophet: ‘Whether the revolution for which I have spent my whole life, will be accomplished in my life time or not?’ He replied: ‘You do not bother yourself whether this will be fulfilled during this life of yours or otherwise, you have to see that this Message is publicised. It will meet its fulfillment either during you worldly life or otherwise. Don’t you see how We are limiting and reducing the land and its area from the big landholders”. This is Our verdict (that their ownership on land shall be terminated), and no power on earth can invert Our verdict. Very soon We will call them to account’ (13:41).

In Surah Al Anbiya’, it is said: ‘They and their ancestors got the land to produce means of livelihood. With the lapse of time they established their adverse possession. Now We are gradually withdrawing it from their hands. Our program will get accomplished undoubtedly. They will not win over Us’ (21:44). In the power achieved due to landlordism, there is an indication that it will be abolished.

                                                                                                       .........to be continued
Regards
Optimist

126

General Discussions / Re: Islamic country or Muslim country - Food for thought.

« on: December 25, 2013, 03:07:10 PM »

Which Nation, when, and how?

Islam does not recognize the concept of nation in the limited sense we understand, like a group of people associated with a particular territory.  These are boundaries we create based on our own convenience.   By the way, according to dictionary, by nation, it can also mean community of persons not constituting a state but bound by common descent, language, history, etc.

when, and how?

It is the law of nature that constructive forces overcome destructive forces: it can not be otherwise: but the  speed at which these constructive forces overcome is (according to our standards) very slow: God’s single day is equal to one thousand (or rather fifty thousand of our) years: 32:5, 70:4 but if we show conviction and trust in the laws revealed through wahi we can ensure our own peace and help to safeguard the peace and security of humankind  and then the results start to be formulated and manifested according to our measure.

No one, including Shabbeer indicates that  "in themselves" in 41:53 means "in their Nations", as you (Optimist) indicate (within brackets).

As I told you Islam does not recognize national/ territorial concept and hence this unique expression.....the whole world belongs to Allah and the whole world has to follow Allah's Laws.....and by the way, 41:53 could also mean the external universe and human world.  You always comes up with objection only, never care to explain the verse(s) for everyone to understand what is actually stated in the verse(s) as per your understanding.

Regards,
Optimist

127

General Discussions / Re: Islamic country or Muslim country - Food for thought.

« on: December 24, 2013, 02:23:45 AM »

".... Allah will prove the validity of His Laws...."

It is being proved every moment.

You are fully correct.  It is being proved every moment.  And it will be kept on proving every moment in future.  And;

In time We shall make them (those who think) fully understand Our signs in the utmost horizons (of the word) and within themselves (their own nation), so that it will become clear unto them that this (revelation) is indeed the truth (41:53)

Time itself is waiting to see which fortunate nation will take up the torch and light the way for the rest of the world.  This blessed nation will lead and take the whole of humanity towards the heaven.   This is humanity's beautiful destination.  Insha Allah.

Alhamdulillah always

Regards
Optimist

128

General Discussions / Re: Response to A. Ismail Sait : Islamic State

« on: December 23, 2013, 01:33:47 AM »

It is just like the one who takes upon himself, and strives hard to fulfill the responsibilities of maintenance and education of his children only after he is blessed with children.

Salaam!

Establishment of an Islamic state is not as simple as making children......I will give you a more appropriate example.

.....It is just like striving hard to build/ construct an school with all necessary infrastructure, faculties and facilities under very difficult conditions and after its establishment, striving hard to run, manage and maintain the same as a model school  (same like you have to put-in lot of efforts to establish a model school, you have to put-in lot of efforts to manage and maintain it.)

Regards,
Optimist

129

General Discussions / Re: Response to A. Ismail Sait : Islamic State

« on: December 22, 2013, 06:15:58 PM »

Salaam!

Don’t play with words and try to create a wrong impression to others that it is my view that the prophet’s mission was only focused on POWER TO RULE.   What I was stating all along is that the prophet established Islamic government (you also agree), and in the absence of power to rule, the prophet could not have managed to into practice all commandments contained in the Quran.  And therefore, for the establishment of an Islamic State (in order to implement all Quranic Laws), the prophet and his companions (by default) strived hard for Power.  Even your answer was “I do not know” when I asked you how it is possible to carry out criminal laws of the Quran without power to rule.  Indirectly you yourself was admitting that power to rule is necessary to put into practice the criminal laws of Islam.   

6:135 only means, come what may, we will not budge from the right path. We will always remain focused on consistency and steadfastness in pursuing Allah's guidance, in spite of enemy provocations, and never will we transgress limits. You (ie; Islam's enemies) are power-focused, and so devoid of Spirituality.

You are giving strange and foolish interpretation for 6:135.   Did prophet and Sahabas lost spiritually when they established an Islamic government with power to rule???

Regards,
Optimist

130

General Discussions / Re: Islamic country or Muslim country - Food for thought.

« on: December 21, 2013, 04:23:46 PM »

Salaam.

The word meaning The Hour, with the Definite Article Alif Lam, appears 41 times in Al Qur'an.

{I use my (Arabic) Concordance and Index of the Holy Qur'an, by M. F. A. Baqui}

Everywhere it means, quite clearly, the same: The Hour - The Hereafter.

It is only Parvez who had the temerity to highjack scores of Verses indicating The Hereafter, to mean a temporal revolution - Islam, toppling the rest.

The moot question is: Which Islam? Shia, Sunni, Salafi, ..........?

Again, will this conjectural revolution be a product of evolution, or.........?

Or, are these two questions, including a previous one, irrelevant, or irrational?

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

Salaam!

I have already stated.  The human life does not end with death nor do the results of deeds end in death, thus in the life hereafter, results too have been called “as saa-ah” in the Quran.   However, the destruction of the earth and heaven, the 'final earth quake',  I agree with you, your analysis would be correct (though it has nothing to do with fact) based on the literal understanding of the "earth quake" and the frightening descriptions mentioned in the Quran.........So am I, based on the explanation I provided.

Anyhow, you did not find it contradictory when I explained the continuous interplay of both constructive and destructive forces (haqq - truth and baatil - falsehood) and the LAW of Allah the constructive force always defeats the destructive force.   This conflict will continue on a small scale (evolutionary level unless those who have Wahi - the Quran - in their hands actively support the forces of Haqq) until a final decisive decisive battle, in which the forces of baathil will be intimately destroyed and thus Allah will prove the validity of His Laws. This great revolution has to happen no matter (we have the signs around us) whether we take up the responsibility or not.

The moot question is: Which Islam? Shia, Sunni, Salafi, ..........?

Bhaaa!  Do you think the forces of evil (Shia, Sunni, Salafi, etc) will be the flag bearers in the decisive final battle of Haqq against Baatil??  The humanity is suffering because of  Shia, Sunni, Salafi, etc.....They are forces of baathil and destined to get destroyed (either by the hands of those who raise for the protection haqq or by mutual conflict) and withered away in the decisive battle or even long before the final revolution.  You may take warning from the following verse;

O Jama’at-ul-Momineen, beware that if you turn away from Allah’s Deen (you should not fancy that it will cause any harm to Allah, nay – you will in fact harm your own self, because) We will replace you by others who will obey His Laws in preference to everything else in the world and the result of their obedience will be recompense from Allah. They will act with humility towards each other but will be firm towards their adversaries. They will strive hard in the cause of Allah and will not care about what others say. This is blessing from Allah which He bestows on those who wish to have it according to His Laws for Allah is Infinite and All-Knowing.  [5:54]

Regards,
Optimist

131

General Discussions / Re: Response to A. Ismail Sait : Islamic State

« on: December 21, 2013, 03:48:05 PM »

Sometimes the punishment is at the hands of the true followers of God's Prophets. And the power is Providential. Prophets' mission is never power-focused. (9:52)

Repeatedly quoting verses out of context can not help you.  As a final note, a clue to prophet's mission can be found in the following verse (6:135), if you have 'heart' (not eyes);

[Mohammed Asad] Say: "O my [unbelieving] people! Do yet all that may be within your power, [while] I, behold, shall labour [in God's way]; and in time you will come to know to whom the future belongs. Verily, never will evildoers attain to a happy state!"

[Parwez] O Rasool tell your people “You may do whatever you choose; I will not interfere. On the other hand, do not interfere in My programme. The results will soon show to whom success will eventually belong. Allah’s law is that Z’alimeen can never prosper.” 

[Shabbir]  Say (to the opponents O Messenger), "O My people! Do all that is in your power. Behold, I am working. Very soon, you will come to know for which of us is the ultimate success. Violators of human rights will never be successful."

[Pickthall] Say (O Muhammad): O my people! Work according to your power. Lo! I too am working. Thus ye will come to know for which of us will be the happy sequel. Lo! the wrong-doers will not be successful.

[Maududi] Say (O Muhammad!): ´O people! Work in your place; and I too am at work. Soon you will know in whose favour the ultimate decision will be. Surely the wrong-doers will not prosper.´

Assalamu alaikum
Regards,
Optimist

132

General Discussions / Re: How to walk

« on: December 21, 2013, 01:11:30 PM »

Assalamu alaikum

Q-Sd-D

Al qasu fil amr: to be moderate in some matter.
Qsada fulanun fi mashihi:  he adopted a moderate stance in his speed.
Safaran qaasidan: moderate in journey
Al qasdu,  at-taqseed : to cut something in the middle or to break something into two
Iqtasada fi amrihi: he was solid and moderate or did not get distracted this way or that:
Al qasd : for the way to be straight and clear (Tajul Uroose)

It is stated in the Qur’an in 16:9 “alal laahi qasdus sabeel” meaning, to make the truth clear, evident or the straight path is Allah’s responsibility.  if ala here is taken to mean the same as ila in this ayat, then it would mean that the path to Allah is the middle path: not this way or that.

Al iqtisaad is of different kinds.  When two ends are negative and the middle path is to be adopted. The Quran says, as waqsid fi masheek: 31:19; adopt moderation in your walk or in your affairs: because neither speed nor slowness is good in walk.   Similarly at one end is wastefulness and at the other end is  miserliness: both these extremities are bad: the good way is between the two: i.e. neither to be a big spender nor be miserly: this iqtisaad i.e. moderation is laudable:

Look examples of one end is good and the other end not, like justice and injustice, or haqq (truth) and baatil (falsehood).  Here only one end is good, not the other end: only he is laudable who adopts the path haqq (truth), not one who moves in between Haq and baatil.  Similarly justice and injustice.  However, there is another group who keep a path in between, an example is found in surah Faatir where it has been said  faminhum zaalimul linafsihi wa minhum maqtasidun wa minhum saabiqun bilkhairaat 35:32, meaning, there are among them some who wrong their own souls; some who follow a middle course; and some who are, by Allah's leave, foremost in good deeds (see also 5:66).  This last among the three is the best obviously.  The first group is obviously wrong. But between them, there is a group which does proceed both virtuous deeds or evil.  This group will be better than the oppressive group but below the third: but its modus operandi will not be laudable, according to Qur’anic criterion.

Islam is the way of the Haqq, not the middle path between Haqq and baatil: and the moderate qaum is one which adopts the way of Haqq, not which moves in between Haqq and baatil: see heading waw, siin, tha for the meaning of wast:

أُمَّةً وَسَطًا
Waw, siin, tha

Al-wast: the middle part of anything: the point which is equidistant from both sides: wusutush shams: for the sun to be in the middle of the sky: Muheet says that al-wasat and al-wast is the middle point which is equidistant from all sides: Since the mean point is the best point i.e. with regard to exaggeration etc therefore this word is used to mean the best: waasitul qilaadah: the middle part of a necklace which is usually the best part: alwaseet: intermediary who intervenes between two opponents: The Qur’an says about the horses in battle: fawasatna bihi jam’aa: 100:5 they enter the ranks of the enemies.

The Qur’an says about the Muslim Ummat (the nation of the Muslims): wa kazaalika ja’alnaakum ummatan wasatan litakunu shuda’a alan naas: 2:143 thus we have made you a central or wast ummat or nation: which is duty bound to oversee the deeds of all mankind: for a qaum to be able to do this the qaum must be international and equidistant from every qaum:  i.e. neither leaning towards any particular people nor estranged from another so that everyone is equal in its eyes: just as the centre is at an equal distance from every point in the circle it is obvious then that this position can be attained only by a nation which never moves away an inch from justice and adl : only such a qaum can oversee the deeds of mankind: thus ummatan wast means a qaum which enjoys a central position internationally which oversees the deeds of all nations internationally and resolves all international disputes with full justice : the Qur’an had fixed this place for the qaum of the momineen: It is noteworthy that the Qur’an had suggested this system for the resolution of international conflicts  a time when the world was even unaware of the concept of the internationalism.

Regards,
Optimist

133

General Discussions / Re: Islamic country or Muslim country - Food for thought.

« on: December 19, 2013, 10:27:15 PM »

Salaam.

22:1-7 is not about any temporal revolution.

In 14:41, Abraham beseeches Allah to protect him and the Believers on the Day of Judgment.

In 14:42 onwards, God spells out categorically that in spite of their most subtle and most sophisticated devices, and the respite they are being granted, the detractors of Prophets will not be spared.

21:11-15 is about the temporal punishment the enemies of the Prophets will meet with finally in this world.

75:11 is specifically regarding life after death.

21:11-15 is about their end in this world.

44:29 is about their end in this world. None will pity them, nor will they be granted respite any more.

20:15 is about life after death. The hour, or exact time of the awakening after death was to be kept hidden. And then everone will be treated according to his/her endeavors.

43:61 declares the fact that Jesus was knowledge of the Hour.

It only means that Jesus was meant only to create awareness of the coming Hour - Qiyamath - even as all other Prophets were "knowledge personified", of the Hour to come, so that mankind may be prepared to face it.

3:46-55, 43:63-66 - give no hint of a final showdown between haqq and batil, as Parvez would have us believe.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

Wassalam!

Your analysis is completely based on literal interpretation of "final earth quake" mentioned in the Quran without understanding its allegorical significance.  The great “Saa-ah” which has been mentioned so frighteningly in the Qur’an at several places refers to final, ultimate battle between haq and baatil after which the earth will be illuminated by Allah's light.  The "Saa-ah" mentioned in the Quran is a technical term having different connotations, similar like the word  Salat (different meanings under different context).  Saa-ah is linked to the moment of truth when Haqq prevails over baatil, and it refers to either the time of results in this world or the time of results in the life hereafter.  Anyhow, I hope to respond to you in some details later.  However, let me quote two verses for you to consider.  First verse;

اللَّهُ الَّذِي أَنْزَلَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ وَالْمِيزَانَ وَمَا يُدْرِيكَ لَعَلَّ السَّاعَةَ قَرِيبٌ
يَسْتَعْجِلُ بِهَا الَّذِينَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ بِهَا وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مُشْفِقُونَ مِنْهَا وَيَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّهَا الْحَقُّ أَلَا إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يُمَارُونَ فِي السَّاعَةِ لَفِي ضَلَالٍ بَعِيدٍ   

[Yousuf Ali] It is Allah Who has sent down the Book in Truth, and the Balance (by which to weigh conduct). And what will make thee realise that perhaps the Hour is close at hand? Only those wish to hasten it who believe not in it: those who believe hold it in awe, and know that it is the Truth. Behold, verily those that dispute concerning the Hour are far astray.

Actually, what the Quraish had been seeking to hasten was not the “End of the world”.  What they were seeking to hasten was the so called ultimate defeat the prophet had been warning them all along.   They were warned repeatedly in the Quran that they will face complete destruction if they continue to thread the wrong path, for instances, 

“They desire to extinguish the light of God with the breath of their mouths, but God will perfect His light, however much the disbelievers may dislike”. (61:8.)

He it is Who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, that He may make it prevail over every other religion, even though the idolaters may resent it. (9:33)

In short the verse does NOT reflect any sarcastic comment from the disbelievers to hasten the fulfillment of the “warnings” repeatedly conveyed by the prophet about END OF THE WORLD.  Ofcourse the prophet had warned them about a life after death in which they will be held responsible for their actions.  However, never this warning was focused on "the end of the world" in the technical sense as you try to figure out.  We can not also explain the verse to mean they were hastening the results of their action in their life after death (because they have to die to experience this). 

Also, what is stated immediately is also important.   The Quran is not stating that the believers will be fearful regarding “THE END OF THE WORLD” in the sense a complete destruction earth and heaven.  The point highlighted here is the conviction of the believers that the final victory of Haqq against baatil is an absolute reality and also their realization that they will have to pass through difficult stages, each demanding steadfastness.  The believers will never ever be “fearful” about “end of world” in the literal sense.  Now second verse;

فَهَلْ يَنْظُرُونَ إِلَّا السَّاعَةَ أَنْ تَأْتِيَهُمْ بَغْتَةً فَقَدْ جَاءَ أَشْرَاطُهَا فَأَنَّىٰ لَهُمْ إِذَا جَاءَتْهُمْ ذِكْرَاهُمْ

[Yousuf Ali] The disbelievers wait not but for the Hour, that it should come upon them suddenly. The Signs thereof have already come. But of what avail will their admonition be to them when it has actually come upon them. (47:18)

If you closely (very closely) on the above verse, you will be able to note some points.   

1.  These people have gone to the extreme in their opposition, so much so that even after driving the Muslims from their homeland, they have not given up. Here Allah ask them, are they now waiting for the Revolution to suddenly come upon them??  The question was not with regard their waiting for the end of the word, “destruction of earth and heaven”.  The end of the world in the physical sense was not their concern at all.   Allah was warning them about and impending “revolution”, the final battle between Haq and battle (soon going to take place) in which they will be completely annihilated and destroyed. 

2.  The EARLY “signs” of “the hour” mentioned are in relation to the early signs of impending revolution that was going to take place in the near future.  It is not related to any "signs" of world getting physically destroyed.

3.  Finally, the last sentence states, they will not benefit by any admonition when the revolution takes place is true.  YES, it was indeed true in the sense "And (in the end) the last remnant of those folk who had been bent on evildoing was wiped out" 6:45.  Therefore admonition can not benefit them when the revolution happens.

Regards,
Optimist


 

134

General Discussions / Re: Islamic country or Muslim country - Food for thought.

« on: December 18, 2013, 04:08:16 AM »

Salaam.

Thanks. Your post has been very informative.

The moot question is whether there is any concrete prediction in Al Qur'an that before Qiyamah,

the whole world will embrace Islam?

Salaam,
 
According to Quran, the battle between haq and baatil i.e. good and evil has been going on  a small scale, it will continue to do so, and as time moves ahead and the truths become revealed one by one, then there will be a big clash between haq and baatil after which the earth will be illuminated by its  Lord’s light. This is the great “Saa-ah” which has been mentioned so frighteningly in the Qur’an.  This revolution takes place at the hands of those who rise for the support of haq (or the truth), and therefore “as saa-ah” is in a way the last decisive battle between good and evil and in which the forces of evil are defeated and destroyed. This revolution does not happen at once; it is brewing up for a long time but it does make its appearance in  a way that those who  are unaware of its reality think that it has come upon them suddenly. This will all have occurred as a natural outcome of the law of requital. 

O mankind! Be conscious of and guard the Laws of your Rabb (and establish your society on correct lines).  If you will not do this (on your own), then it  will happen through a tremendous revolution which will shake everything from their very roots.(22:1)

The verses 22:1-7 declare the “final hour” – the ultimate outcome – is bound to come. At this time the rejecters who are presently in power and who oppose the truth will fall (14:45-52).  In fact even as they begin to see the consequence of their wrongdoings they will look for ways to escape it; but they will be unable to either escape or find refuge (21:12-14, 75:11).  At this time they will become like field that has been mowed down, and still burned out like ash (21:14).  They will not be missed, and it will be too late for them to turn back and make amends (44:29). 

The human life does not end with death nor do the results of deeds end in death, thus in the life hereafter, results too have been called “as saa-ah”. Different contexts in the Quran will reveal as to what revolution is meant there: i.e. either the time of results in this world or the time of results in the life hereafter.

Surah Taha says that Allah told Moses in detail about how far gone was the Pharaoh’s rebelliousness, and then told him what he had to do: and then said: innas saa-ataa aatiyah: 20:15 believe it that the time for the last battle between good and evil has come: it will surely come:  the Pharaoh cannot be left to do as he pleases: the revolution is bound to come: likewise our prophet was also told several times that your group or party must be fully prepared: innas sa-atah li aayattiyah: 15:85 the time for the last revolution is arriving: it will definitely come: the opponents will definitely be destroyed.

The prophet-hood lasted about a thousand and five hundred years in the Bani Israeel dynasty: in the beginning they obeyed God’s laws but later they became rebellious and started indulging in every type of sacrilegious act: they were told several time that if you do not give up your wrong ways then you will be demeaned and face azaab (punishment) and the benevolence you enjoy will be taken away from you, but they did not heed any of the prophets: the last was prophet Jesus who told them clearly that if they do not reform their ways then: God’s kingship will be taken from them and given to the nation which will bring God’s system to fruition:

But the reply they gave Jesus is a historical fact and after that the time for revolution did come and the nation’s grandeur and prosperity etc was taken away from them: therefore it is said about Jesus in the Qur’an: innahu la-ilmun lis saa ah: 43:61 his advent was to make the people aware of the great moment (of truth): (also see 3:46-55, 43:63-66 and if the pronoun innahu is taken to refer to Qur’an, then the ayat would mean that this Qur’an tells about the great revolution which is imminent.

Regards,
Optimist

PS:  Just keep in mind that the natural disasters in Quran need not necessarily actual natural disasters.   They symbolize realistic problems. This is simile exposition, just a way of symbolic telling.  Even when something is symbolic it doesn't mean it does not have physical manifestations. Symbolic narrations are sometimes used to make understanding easier to humans what is hard for them to comprehend.

135

General Discussions / Re: Islamic country or Muslim country - Food for thought.

« on: December 17, 2013, 03:41:16 AM »

Salaam.

Actually it is a Quranic truth that, the humanity, ultimately, however long time it may take, by dint of its own experiments and observation, will ultimately reach the Divine Order which has the responsibility for nourishing all humanity

Please give reference for your claim..

Salaam!

Unfortunately, you are unable to grasp the unique point mentioned above.   If you are looking for references from Quran it is already mentioned in my post.   And if you are looking for evidence, you have already evidence in you own post about America, as to how some of their laws are closer to islamic laws.  I will give you some more points to THINK.

The universe is a stage of continuous interplay of both constructive and destructive forces (haqq - truth and baatil - falsehood).  In this conflict the constructive force always defeats the destructive force (this is law of Allah) and thus the overall movement of the universe is constructive (or positive).  Hence the interplay of the two forces is the driving force of evolution.

Nay, but (by the very act of creation) We hurl the truth (haqq) against falsehood (baatil), and it crushes the latter: and ah! it withers away 21:18 (see also 17:81 and 34:49).

That haqq always proves true and the baatil always 'withers away' is not a random or accidental process.  The Quran provides clear concrete example to illustrate this abstract truth. Every day we see that after rainfall, twigs, scum, and other impurities rise to the surface of rivers and streams and all are carried away, leaving clear water behind, which will be absorbed into the earth.

[Whenever] He send water from the sky, and [once-dry] river beds are running high according to their measure, the stream carries scum on its surface. 13:17

In the same verse the Quran provides an additional example, this time of mineral processing, in which we treat rocks in order to obtain useful metal:

And, likewise, from that [metal] which they smelt in the fire in order to make ornaments or utensils, scum [rises]. 13:17

This analogies both serve to explain haqq and baatil:

In this way God presents the parable of truth [haqq] and falsehood [baatil]: for, asa far as the scum is concerned, it passes away as dross; but that which is of benefit to man abides on earth. 13:17

Suffice to say that, according to the Quran only a system that benefits the whole of humanity will ultimately prevail.   With risk of repetition let me quote;

The Quran states;

يَا أَيُّهَا الْإِنْسَانُ إِنَّكَ كَادِحٌ إِلَىٰ رَبِّكَ كَدْحًا فَمُلَاقِيهِ

O man! There is absolutely no doubt that by dint of your own experiments and observation, you will ultimately reach the Divine Order which has the responsibility for nourishing all humanity.  However, this shall happen only after a lot of striving and strenuous effort. (In contrast, under the guidance of Wahi that stage can be reached in a much shorter time, with minimum effort. It economizes human effort. (84:6)

Just to give you some more clarity, let me state two small examples.

1. In family court proceedings in India it is now mandatory for the parties to undergo counseling and arbitration before their case is taken up for final trial (earlier there was no such clause).  This is recent issue I am discussion.....long before in Europe a woman was even allowed to file a divorce petition.   Anyhow, in India the counseling clause was incorporated after several experiments and observations, and after analysing several case studies.   See ultimately how the people understood the truthfulness and validity of a clause stipulated by Divine Law (Quran).  If they had followed the divine law mentioned in the Quran from the beginninh, it would have avoided unnecessary experiments, delays and human sufferings. 

2. A sensitive criminal trail is going on in Indian court against three italian sailors who killed two poor indian fishermen while at sea.  The sailors were captured after the killing and they are being tried under India law where if found guilty they will have to face either imprisonment or capital punishment.  The italy has already paid huge amount of money to the families of the killed, they say not as compensation but to support,  and at present the relatives of the killed are not interested as such to proceed with the case.  But there is no clause in Indian Law to close a criminal case in this way.  This is a deadlock situation and this may under conditions in the past might even lead to a war between two states.  What I want to point out here is that in a television debate recently a non muslim writer appreciated the islamic law that allowed the close relatives optional permission to fogive the offender after receiving compensation.  May be one day, after many experiments and observations, it is possible that humanity will understand the importance of such a clause and this clause may be likely to be incorporated into law acceptable for all. 

Nowhere does Qur'an condemn monarchy. It only condemns tyranny and oppression.

You may kindly read the definition of monarchy first. 

A monarchy (or kingdom, when ruled by a King or Queen) is a form of government in which sovereignty is actually or nominally embodied in a single individual (the monarch).....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy

The Sovereignty in Islam is for Allah alone.  No for human being.   According to Quran, no one, even as high as a Messenger of Allah, has the right to make people subservient to himself 3:78

There is no absolute condemnation of priests and priesthood. See, (5:82), (57:27).

I do not want to divert the topic into unnecessary details.  Just one verse

O you have eiman (conviction!)! Behold, many of the rabbis and monks do indeed wrongfully devour men's possessions and turn away from the path of God" (9:34)

Regards,
Optimist