Messages

136

General Discussions / Re: The Existence of Jinnaat in Islamic Point of View

« on: January 18, 2016, 11:10:15 AM »

Sorry, I missed a bit at the end of the article! This is what it said:

"It was further posited given the Quranic verses, that Abrahamic rites were reinstituted at the Kaaba for the followers of the final revelation. The connection between them and the ancients was one of faith rather than that of geographical locale.
 
The Kaaba was a site for Pagan worship. A messenger amongst the community was raised to rehearse to them God's verses, to sanctify them and to teach them scripture and wisdom (62:2). Practices that were incongruent with Islam were challenged and subsequently removed. Those commensurate with the teachings of Islam were allowed to remain (2:158). This was the perfection that was completed (5:3).
 
No doubt, Prophet Muhammad's  (pbuh) affiliation with the site at Makkah was historic, possibly since childhood (2:144 -  "...So We shall surely turn you to a direction of devotion / prayer (Arabic: Qiblatan) that you will be pleased with..."). This site was chosen to become the direction and Holy sanctuary for the new Muslims. It was here that the practices of old were reinstituted by Divine decree.
 
In the end, only God knows best." ~ JAI


Brother Hamzeh: From this, it becomes clear that my theory was partially correct, in relation to the Kabah and its pagan rituals being eliminated. However, what about jinn? How did they become part of Islam? Any thoughts?

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General Discussions / Re: The Existence of Jinnaat in Islamic Point of View

« on: January 18, 2016, 11:04:53 AM »

Salam Hamzeh, sorry for the abrupt end to my previous reply. It appears that many of my replies have been disappearing lately. I typed up 3 paragraphs, but only 1 showed up when I hit post. Oh well. Regarding the articles you cited, I read through them and it appears that my theory was incorrect. I assumed that Abraham's progeny brought Islam to Arabia, and gradually the Arabs messed it up with their pagan rituals. The Quran came down to correct the pagan rituals but to maintain the original Abrahamic rituals of Kabah pilgrimage and the like. If this isn't the case, then what actually happened? How did some of the beliefs and cultural elements of pagan Arabia filter into Quranic Islam? For example, Muslims believe in jinn, which came from pagan Arabia, not Abraham, right? (Please correct me if I'm mistaken.) If you could clarify how this happened, I'd really appreciate it, since I'm a but confused right now

138

General Discussions / Re: Shirk Forgiveness

« on: January 18, 2016, 10:57:20 AM »

Oh my goodness, I have no idea what just happened! My previous reply had 2 paragraphs, but one of them disappeared again! Lol, oh well...so, continuing what I was saying: I reread some Quranic verses about shirk, and it appears that many of them talk about committing it knowingly. From this, I think you're absolutely right--you only get punished for it if you know you're doing it. Thnx

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General Discussions / Re: Shirk Forgiveness

« on: January 18, 2016, 10:54:29 AM »

Salam Sister Seraphina,
I typed up a longer reply, but it seems to have disappeared...don't know what happened lol. I said that shirk can take many forms, like taking evil desires for gods, for instance, if you drink alcohol while knowing it's wrong then you might be comitting shirk by following your vain desires...if you get what I'm saying

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General Discussions / Re: Shirk Forgiveness

« on: January 18, 2016, 10:50:37 AM »

Thanks for your clarification

141

General Discussions / Re: The Existence of Jinnaat in Islamic Point of View

« on: January 18, 2016, 10:46:31 AM »

Salam Hamzeh,

I read over the articles you cited and it appears that my theory was incorrect (sorry Seraphina

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General Discussions / Re: The Existence of Jinnaat in Islamic Point of View

« on: January 18, 2016, 04:52:38 AM »

The article translated jinn as something that is hidden or unseen.

143

General Discussions / Re: Shirk Forgiveness

« on: January 18, 2016, 04:51:52 AM »

Salam Seraphina

I've seen these articles before and they helped a lot. You're right, a person is only considered a disbeliever when they've rejected the message, and only considered a believer when they'be believed in it.

However, if you consider a person who isn't a believer or a disbeliever, who unknowingly commits shirk, is this a sin on their part? They don't know that they're doing something wrong, right?

What are your thoughts on that? ^ (= > w < =) ^

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General Discussions / Re: The Existence of Jinnaat in Islamic Point of View

« on: January 18, 2016, 12:53:52 AM »

Salam Sardar Miyan,

I'm a sister...LOL...

About the jinn article, it talks about the composition of jinn and their characteristics, but it doesn't talk about how they came to be mentioned in the Quran, and it doesn't talk about their history or why they weren't mentioned much in the other scriptures.

I think Brother Joseph should write an article describing how these traditions and beliefs evolved in Islam.

145

General Discussions / Shirk Forgiveness

« on: January 17, 2016, 01:36:09 AM »

According to the Quran, shirk isn't forgiven if maintained until death. What if you don't realize you're doing it, like if you're raised in a Catholic household and you believe in the Trinity? Believing in the Trinity is shirk, but what if you don't know that? Would you get forgiven?

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General Discussions / Re: The Existence of Jinnaat in Islamic Point of View

« on: January 17, 2016, 01:17:02 AM »

Hi everyone !

Adnan11: Thank you for your info about jinn, but we don't know about the veracity of these hadiths. Could you please quote some Quran verses about jinn if they contain pertinent information? Thank you

Seraphina: I think "demon" in Aramaic is "shed" or something like that (online dictionary), and it's in the Bible. However, the "demons" in the Bible are usually considered fallen angels, not jinn. But we know that angel's don't "fall", so these demons/fallen angels must be jinn.

Also, the Apocrypha mentions that King Solomon had spirits or demons working for him. (I mean, he tamed them, so they weren't really evil, but they were called demons.)

I want to say something else here--you know how the Kabah was originally built by Abraham? Abraham's son Ishmael apparently migrated to Arabia, and his descendants, the pagan Arabs, messed up the Kabah and started putting idols in it. They still believed in a supreme God called Allah, but they set up sons and daughters for him and made idols to represent them. They still did pilgrimage around the Kabah, but not the right way. This was the problem. When the Quran came around, it abolished the bad practices of idol-worship and weird pilgrimage rituals, but it retained the original pilgrimage around the Kabah that Ishmael had instituted. Paganism was basically just a messed-up version of the original monotheism, so the Quran retained the aspects of it that were consistent with monotheistic teachings.

The point is, jinn may have been believed in way before the Arabs started idol-worshipping. The word "jinn" comes from Palmyra and Arabia, but the concept of spirits existed in pretty much every society. Jinn or demon-like spirits had been mentioned in previous monotheistic scripture,  but the Arabs messed up the concept of jinn and started worshipping them, just like they messed up the Kabah pilgrimage. The Quran condemned this innovated jinn-worship but acknowledged the fact that these spirits existed, because previous scriptures did mention them on occasion.

It's possible that the Quran talks so much about jinn because it was an issue that needed to be addressed. After all, jinn were being worshipped. So the Quran had to stress the fact that jinn were just a creation of God, which is why it talks about their composition and creation.

The stuff I wrote above isn't necessarily a fact, but this is the version of events from my understanding. Jinn (or hidden spirits) were always known to exist, but the Arabs carried their concept too far and started worshipping them, so the Quran corrected this.

Sardar Miyan: I've read his article about jinn, but it doesn't address this.

I wonder what Brother Joseph's viewpoint on this is?

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General Discussions / Re: The Existence of Jinnaat in Islamic Point of View

« on: January 15, 2016, 08:44:38 AM »

Just in case my questions were ambiguous (sorry for so many consecutive posts), I was simply wondering why jinn, which originated in folklore and not reality, would be considered real in the Quran. There are references to demons and spirits in other scripture, but none go by the name "jinn." People say Muhammad copied folktales about jinn when he (supposedly) wrote the Quran, and this allegation could be refuted if we knew why jinn are talked about, and why they seem to come from fairytales. (I believe in them, but...you know.)

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General Discussions / Re: Wearing trouser/pants below ankle!

« on: January 15, 2016, 08:40:41 AM »

I heard the Taliban imposed this rule when they brought their version of sharia to Pakistan. There's this book that Malala wrote, and she mentioned an incident where a man was shot for not adhering to the "trousers above ankle" rule. Completely ridiculous.

There's nothing about this in the Quran. It might have stemmed from traditions where Muhammad always wore his pants above the ankle because he didn't want to get them dirty. Either way, it has nothing to do with Islam.

It's quite nonsensical how people want to copy everything Muhammad pbuh did. He rode camels, so does that mean we should too? Of course not. His character can  be followed from the Quran.

Anyway, that's off topic. Salam

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General Discussions / Re: The Existence of Jinnaat in Islamic Point of View

« on: January 14, 2016, 07:05:40 AM »

"Belief in jinn was common in early Arabia, where they were thought to inspire poets and soothsayers. Even Muḥammad originally feared that his revelations might be the work of jinn. Their existence was further acknowledged in official Islām, which indicated that they, like human beings, would have to face eventual salvation or damnation. Jinn, especially through their association with magic, have always been favourite figures in North African, Egyptian, Syrian, Persian, and Turkish folklore and are the centre of an immense popular literature, appearing notably in The Thousand and One Nights. In India and Indonesia they have entered local Muslim imaginations by way of the Qurʾānic descriptions and Arabic literature. See also ghoul; ifrit."

This is what Brittanica says about jinn. They were thought to exist before the Quran came along. Just thought I'd clarify.

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General Discussions / Re: The Existence of Jinnaat in Islamic Point of View

« on: January 14, 2016, 07:01:02 AM »

Salam!

Hicham9: Your reply has left me utterly baffled. Please explain what you are talking about.

I pose these questions to other forum members and Brother Joseph:

1) If jinn were a part of Arab folklore before Muhammad even existed, how did they get into the Quran? Why is the Quran full of tales about them, when they were just part of early mythology?

2) Are the jinn in the Quran the same as the spirits/demons mentioned in the Bible? Why are jinn talked about so exclusively in the Quran, among monotheistic scripture?

Some of the above questions might sound a bit accusatory I don't mean it that way Just wondering.

Mia