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196
Discussions / Experiences
« on: December 29, 2015, 12:28:44 PM »
Before I start: I'm warning everyone, this is going to be long. Very long. Please bear with me and I sincerely apologize if you get bored.  ;D

I want to share my journey with all of you, because I feel like I should tell people about this.

I grew up in a semi-traditional Sunni household. My mom was a convert; my dad was born into a Muslim family. I lived in a melting-pot city with a mix of people from different races, especially Asians. Somehow, everyone automatically knew I was Muslim when they saw me. It wasn't because of my name; I'm certain of that. It probably had something to do with my Syrian or Arabian appearance. Either way, when I was a little kid I was blissfully unaware of all the negative things people had to say about Islam, because they avoided saying those things around me. I didn't know what 9/11 was until I turned 9, and even then I didn't know that radical "Muslims" had initiated it.

Ever since I was a child, I liked asking questions that my parents couldn't answer. Once I asked my mom at the age of five or six, "Can God find a difference between two pictures in which there is no difference?"

"That doesn't make any sense," my mom told me. She went around for the rest of the day looking slightly confused.

My parents were pretty lenient. They liked music, although they admitted that there were hadiths forbidding it. I played piano, sang, and took art classes. This mortified some of my Muslim friends, of which I had a lot. One girl, Samra, would tell me music was haram every time she came to my house and saw the piano in the guestroom. She started wearing hijab at the age of 12, which was a pity because she had the most beautiful reddish hair. She insinuated that I should do the same (wear hijab) unless I wanted to go to hell.

Around this time I stopped going to Sunday school. I didn't like praying because I didn't understand why I should do it, and I would lie to get out of it. I was an academically gifted child (perhaps too gifted) who believed that schoolwork was more important than kindness and charity. My parents decided that something must be done.

They made me take online Quran classes with a sheikh who seemed nice at first. He encouraged me to ask questions, but every time I asked anything, he either pretended not to understand me or else actually didn't understand me. I'd been taught dogmatically that people should only recite the Quran in Arabic and that doing so in English is rather pointless. Even so, I demanded translation classes instead. My dad conceded. I started learning an incredibly misogynistic, violently inclined, insanely inaccurate translation of the Quran, and I was horrified. I was old enough by then to understand that the doctrines being introduced in this translation were just plain wrong. I started doing my own research.

After a long time (like several weeks/months) of doing a little research a day, I came across Joseph's website. My dad had always been a fan of his and I became interested after I realized that this Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam guy was the same one my little sisters listened to in the car. I read a lot of articles, figured out a lot of life-changing stuff, and finally realized that other people needed to know about this.

It was around this time that ISIS started getting on the news, every single day. It drove me berserk. My teacher singled me out, asking how I and the other Muslims in the class felt about these crazy extremists. I said they were lunatics because I couldn't find any other words to describe them. My Honors History teacher demonstrated how lucky we were to live in America by telling us about the horrors of Sharia law. He showed us videos of terrorists on CNN News, holding up guns in one hand and glittery copies of the Quran in the other.

I started feeling kind of hopeless, like no matter what the Obama Administration did or how many drone attacks they launched, the lunatic terrorists would still be out there killing people. I began reading the Quran more, especially Surahs Mary and Imran for some reason. The Quran says Allah grants respite to disbelievers for a while, then He destroys them. (Can't cite exact verse right now.) I'm still wondering when the respite of these disbelievers is going to end, and I'm still wondering what exactly they are--hypocrites, mentally ill wackos, or what?!

Anyway, one of my mom's friends was very scared at this time because her relatives, who live in Iraq, were under ISIS rule and there's a lot of warfare and insanity going on there right now. She called my mom a few times, crying about it, because her family wasn't faring too well from what I could tell. This led me to ask questions about why God would allow such horrible things to happen to people. Joseph had articles for that, too.

What I've taken from this is that the Quran actually has answers for everyone's questions, whether directly or indirectly. One day I was wondering if God would allow women to be astronauts (don't ask; it's another long story), and I came across this verse:

Yusuf Ali: O ye assembly of Jinns and men! If it be ye can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, pass ye! not without authority shall ye be able to pass! -55.33

It's like the answer to my question was handed to me on a golden platter, wrapped up in fancy Christmas paper with a big red bow on top. Explicit permission for NASA granted.

I'm still concerned about a few things. Even the Quran-centric community is divided into the 19-code-obsessed people and the people who just follow the Quran, alleged miraculous code or not. They differ over ridiculously tiny issues. How are we going to fix this, and how can we enlighten more people?

Also, why doesn't God make the community of His sincere believers bigger? He says He could've made everyone believe if He'd wanted to, but He decided not to for whatever reason. Still, He says His sincere believers will be given dominance. I want to see that happen in my lifetime.

Hugs and apologies for an overly long story :)



197
Discussions / Re: Why the Bible is not God's Words
« on: December 29, 2015, 11:38:43 AM »
Also, Hope, you have a lot of good posts. I've been going through a lot of stuff on this forum and your threads are pretty interesting. :)

I can't begin to say how amazing everyone on this forum is. Nobody says mean things, argues maliciously, etc. It's reassuring to see that there are actually nice people out there.

198
Discussions / Re: Why the Bible is not God's Words
« on: December 29, 2015, 09:29:54 AM »
This thread is ancient, but I had to reply.

Hi Hope, I just want to say that we shouldn't go looking for "contradictions" and "inconsistencies" in other people's scriptures. A lot of people do this with the Quran and most of it is based on conjecture and mistranslations of certain verses. This is probably also true with the Bible contradictions: most of these alleged mistakes are probably mistranslations. Of course the Bible is considerably messed up, but we should be sure before we go around telling people about "mistakes" in it.

If we want to prove that the current Bible isn't from God, we should just talk about its central ideas and how they don't make sense, like Trinity. That's probably more effective than stuff like this, which is easily debunked and refuted.

No hard feelings, just advice :)

Mia

199
Women / Re: 4:34 and other issues
« on: December 29, 2015, 09:23:11 AM »
Salam Wakas,

I'm going to have to concede on this one. When you look at the issue carefully, "cite" actually does make more sense.

And it fits with calling in arbitrators perfectly.

Don't know why I didn't see this before. We all learn :)

Mia

200
General Discussions / Re: Concept of an Islamic State
« on: December 29, 2015, 09:21:00 AM »
Yes, Islam encompasses true Christianity, Judaism and all other true monotheistic religions. So, Good Logic, you're saying that in a real Islamic State, Quranic law would apply to everyone no matter what their religious affiliation is.

I'm not sure about this, but since Christianity and other religions are so corrupt now, it wouldn't make sense to let Christians derive their punishments from the Bible and stuff like that. It actually might make more sense to have everyone universally following Quranic law, but without religious coercion in personal matters.

Just my take. Islamic countries are nonexistent, so we can't know for sure...

201
General Discussions / Re: Two versions of Islam ?
« on: December 29, 2015, 09:18:16 AM »
Salam Mubashir,
You said "if such are the priests, then God bless the congregation!"--sarcasm, I'm assuming, right? (That was probably a dumb question, but just making sure.)

Yes, priests are kind of ridiculous. You just have to look at islamqa.info to see what I'm talking about. The sheikh on that site degrades women and says that women who drive are prostitutes, takes way more evidence from hadith than from quran, and uses the most corrupted translations. He also says it's haram to live in the west, women must dress in Darth Vader costumes (niqabs) at all times, and similar nonsense. It's depressing but kind of pathetically amusing when you get to it.

Speaking of victory, since that's a part of this thread: The Quran assures true believers of victory. You notice that during early Islam, when hadiths weren't very widespread and people were decent, Islam was quite sucessful. Muslims were conquering Persia and Byzantine and making all sorts of scientific advances. However, now Islam has become so corrupted that even my teachers at school make derogatory remarks about Muslims. (Very annoying.)

When is God going to fix this???

202
General Discussions / Re: Why is shirk the worst sin?
« on: December 29, 2015, 09:12:28 AM »
Salam.

I've seen the argument that shirk ONLY means idolatry, and it's supposedly the worst sin because committing idolatry is doing an injustice to Allah. This doesn't make sense, you can't do injustice to God! He's not a normal person who can be hurt like we are.

I think this view makes more sense. Joseph's articles are really helpful. He should write a book one day.

:)

203
General Discussions / Why is shirk the worst sin?
« on: December 25, 2015, 07:02:38 AM »
Salam :)

I came across this site that gave me a new definition of shirk. Most people consider shirk to be purely idol-worship, Trinity worship, or polytheism. Actually, according to Quran 45:23, pretty much ALL bad deeds done deliberately are shirk, because they constitute taking your sinful desires as gods.

Which is why shirk is the worst sin--it encompasses basically all other sins.

I think.

This is a fairly  new view and I was wondering if anyone has thoughts on this, or if I'm wrong, or what. This is quite contrary to everything I've been taught.

Happy holidays and Christmas ;)

204
General Discussions / Re: Concept of an Islamic State
« on: December 25, 2015, 06:58:09 AM »
Anyone know anything else about this?

205
General Discussions / Re: Two versions of Islam ?
« on: December 23, 2015, 02:34:53 AM »
Yes. Yessssss.

(That was my response to everything you just said.)

Sometimes I think that when people insult Islam, we should just copy-paste Quranic verses onto a document and send it to them, to prove them wrong. The verses are self-explanatory.

Even the Quran states in 3.7 that it is sometimes ambiguous and needs to be understood as a whole. I don't know how people misunderstand that.

I have been doing a great deal of research on Islam lately, ever since I came into contact with a certain person who presented me with a very twisted version of Quranic ideology. I decided to learn about religion myself and I've realized that although the Quran is not a political book or a terror manual, many Muslims make it so. Most of the Muslim world has deviated from the Quran and this is obvious when we look at societies like Iran and Saudi Arabia.

I found another site that puts some perspective on the Quran: https://islamintheuk.wordpress.com/

It's a very good site that supports peace and gives detailed refutations to people like Ali Sina (who annoy me greatly). It also denounces hadith culture. I just thought I'd put that out there in case anyone wants to learn more.

Mia

206
General Discussions / Re: Two versions of Islam ?
« on: December 22, 2015, 02:34:28 AM »
Salam :)

Before answering this email, you should probably look up what they mean by "weak period" and "strong period". To my knowledge, verses 3:85 and 2:193 were not revealed when the Muslims had established a powerful empire. Surah Baqarah was revealed when Muhammad was in Medinah.

Also, I want to address a mistranslation of verse 2:193: The word "deen" is not only used for religion, it's also used for a system or form of  government. This verse is not saying to convert everyone to Islam, it's saying to establish God's system, which includes freedom of religion for everyone.

Verses 2:191-194 make the context very clear. It's talking about fighting people who fight you and "not transgressing the limits."

Now, these verses might seem contradictory at first, but they can be reconciled. The Quran says itself that parts of it are confusing and you need to refer to other verses to explain the confusing ones.

"It is He who sent down upon thee the Book, wherein are verses clear that are the Essence of the Book, and others ambiguous. As for those in whose hearts is swerving, they follow the ambiguous part, desiring dissension, and desiring its interpretation; and none knows its interpretation, save only God. And those firmly rooted in knowledge say, 'We believe in it; all is from our Lord'; yet none remembers, but men possessed of minds." -3.7

So the Quran's doctrine on freedom of religion seems to be this: Islam (which includes all forms of monotheism, like Christianity) is the only acceptable religion that you can have if you want to go to heaven. Once you've been presented with guidance, if you don't accept it, then you're probably not going to heaven. However, God will punish the disbelievers, and it's not our job to do so. We cannot force people to accept Islam, but if people don't accept it then they're going to be punished by God.

These verses actually relate to each other and shouldn't be used for calling the Quran a political book. Moreover, they weren't revealed at any specific "strong" or "weak" time period. They're meant to create a balanced ideology: Submitting to God is the way to go, but if people don't do it, then you can't force them.

Hope this helps ;)

207
General Discussions / Re: Concept of an Islamic State
« on: December 19, 2015, 05:24:38 AM »
Oh, and also, about zakah: I don't think paying helpful taxes would be considered zakah, even if it benefits the community. Zakah is voluntary, not a state-imposed thing like taxes. Even in a muslim country, nonmuslims wouldn't be forced to pay zakah. Zakah is a personal matter that has little to do with national law.

That's just what I think. Generally, zakah falls under the same category of salah. Purely voluntary and has nothing to do with national law.

208
General Discussions / Re: Concept of an Islamic State
« on: December 19, 2015, 05:21:46 AM »
Salam

Hassan: About the jizyah, I've heard the idea that only Christians and Jews have to pay it. Is it just them or every other nonmuslim in a Muslim country? In a proper Muslim country, people would probably need religious certification or something, to determine which religious penalties would be used on them in the event of committing a crime.

Hamzeh: You wrote out a pretty good list of every law-related thing that would go on in such a country. I think personal matters, such as divorce, child custody, or punishment for adultery, would be carried out based on the person's religious affiliation, or lack thereof. If their book has a different inheritance division or divorce process than the Quran, then they'd use that. Otherwise they'd follow the general Quranic law-based system.

Although, I think the Quran is the only scripture that details divorce processes and those things.

For this to work, you'd have to know who was muslim and who wasn't. Everyone would most likely have to be registered based on religious affiliation and other information.

However for impersonal matters such as murder and mass homicide, I think everyone would simply have to abide by the national law, that is, by the laws detailed in the Quran.

Of course, everything I said above about religion-based laws and all that, would only work in an actual Islamic country where such laws are accepted and recognized by the community. In a nonmuslim country, you just follow whatever the national law is. Making up your own laws instead would constitute spreading corruption.

And yes, I live in the United States, and the government is way better than in, say, Arabia. Democracy, "mutual consultation" and all that. It fits with the Quran quite well, although that might change if and when...er...a *certain Republican candidate* becomes president. We all know who I'm talking about.

God bless everyone (except Hitler/Pharoah/Trump/etc.)

209
General Discussions / Re: Concept of an Islamic State
« on: December 17, 2015, 07:56:24 AM »
Salam :)

The link didn't work for some reason, but the pdf did. I haven't got time now to go through it but I will later inshallah. Studying.

Um...I have finals this week too...you're a respected member of this forum so I thought you were much older...like 50 or something, not in school anymore. LOL.

There's a lot of stuff people say about taxing nonmuslims that live under Muslim rule, saying that they should pay Jizya and stuff. I understand that jizya is discussed in Quran 9:29, but I'm not sure exactly what it is. I think taxing nonmuslims would be a form of religious discrimination, so I wonder if it's actually supposed to be a tax on nonmuslims or if it's something else?

It would be interesting to do more research on this. We should get Joseph Islam's opinion.

Mia


210
General Discussions / Concept of an Islamic State
« on: December 15, 2015, 07:06:38 AM »
Salam :)

From my understanding, the laws and punishments in the Quran (lashes for adultery, etc) should only be implemented in a place where they are accepted by the community and the community is Muslim-run. But the Quran also advises choosing leaders by mutual counsel, which seems like democracy. Is the Quran in favor, generally, of separation of church and state? If the punishments detailed in the Quran are carried out on non-muslims, wouldn't that constitute forcing your religion onto other people? How would an actual "Islamic state" be run? (Because seriously, there is no such thing as an Islamic State these days.)

I get the impression there would be religious tolerance, but laws and punishments would be carried out according to the Quran. Would these punishments apply to both muslims and nonmuslims alike? Just wondering how an actual muslim country would be run, because God knows REAL muslim countries haven't existed for centuries. They still have the death penalty for adultery in Iran.

Mia

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