Messages

241

General Discussions / Re: Understanding Quran 8:39

« on: November 23, 2015, 09:46:22 AM »

And since this verse is related in the context of war, could someone please explain verse 9:123? It says something like "and fight the disbelievers close to you..." some translators have translated "close to you" as "who attack you" or "who gird you about." The arabic word used here is ya'lunakum. What does it actually mean? I hope 9:123 is talking about specific disbelievers and not disbelievers in general. Who is it referring to?

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General Discussions / Re: Understanding Quran[9:123]

« on: November 23, 2015, 09:06:19 AM »

Just a comment, which group of people is 9:123 referring to? The hypocrites, or the pagans mentioned at the beginning of the surah, who broke their treaties? I hope 9:123 is not talking about ALL disbelievers, can someone please clarify?

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General Discussions / Re: Understanding Quran 8:39

« on: November 23, 2015, 09:04:04 AM »

Update: The word deen means not only religion, it can also mean system, government, or way of doing things. That clears a lot of things up. Verse 8:39 is not telling believers to make all religion for Allah, it is actually telling them to make the governing system the way Allah has decreed it. Allah's religion means being monotheistic. However, Allah's governing system means freedom of religion for everyone. That translation is more applicable in 8:39, and it erases any ideas of forced conversion.

Mia

244

General Discussions / Re: Understanding Quran 8:39

« on: November 23, 2015, 02:54:03 AM »

Brother Hassan: Yes, I absolutely condemn the attacks as well. Killing is not the right retribution for making fun of someone. The Quran says "and for each wrong is rightful retribution, but if you forgive your reward lies with your Lord."

From my understanding, it seems like whenever a Quranic verse instructs people to kill disbelievers, it is a prerequisite that the disbelievers are breaking treaties and being hostile. And the believers are instructed not to transgress the limits of warfare, so that means they have to avoid killing women/children and incline to peace if the enemy also does so.

However, it seems like some verses can be very easily misinterpreted if taken in isolation. I think this topic is worth looking into further.

Mia

245

General Discussions / Re: Understanding Quran 8:39

« on: November 22, 2015, 10:10:50 AM »

Unrelated, but in one of Joseph's articles about this topic, 3:90 says the repentance of people who disbelieved after believing is not accepted. I thought repentance for everything except shirk is accepted. Contradiction?

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General Discussions / Re: Understanding Quran 8:39

« on: November 22, 2015, 10:02:53 AM »

Also, look at this link and read the first few answers:

https://www.quora.com/Where-in-the-Quran-does-it-say-that-non-believers-must-be-killed

The answers are from nonmuslims who seem to really hate islam, but I'm finding some truth in their claims, and it isn't nice.

The Quran seems to take any excuse to wage war against disbelievers. It says to fight those who actively oppose God and His Messenger, and the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists did just that, and Islamic extremists killed them. Is this justifiable by the Quran? I really hope it isn't. I don't want to follow a religion that orders us to kill disbelievers until religion is only for Allah.

But if God orders it, then what can we do...

I really hope God didn't order this.

247

General Discussions / Re: The God Paradox

« on: November 22, 2015, 09:44:29 AM »

Brother Joseph: That is definitely a new perspective, and it makes more sense than anything people told me about this issue before.

My question was certainly irrational, but I had to clear it up.

Thank you for your answers

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General Discussions / Re: Understanding Quran 8:39

« on: November 22, 2015, 09:41:11 AM »

Brother Hamzeh: I get what you're saying about the disbelievers having harmed the muslims first, but does Allah intend for Muslims to be the supreme group on earth, or does He want us to live peacefully with everyone?

Also, the verse very clearly says "until ALL religion is for Allah." Does this mean freedom of religion, or does it mean everyone has to convert to Islam? If ALL religion in an area is for Allah, then everyone in the area who isn't monotheistic would have to be killed, or else forcibly converted to islam/judaism/christianity. And this is contrary to "there is no compulsion in religion."

This is probably a flaw in my own understanding of the verse, because the Quran does not contain errors. For these particular disbelievers, is there compulsion in religion or not?

249

General Discussions / Understanding Quran 8:39

« on: November 21, 2015, 12:39:12 PM »

Salam everyone. What's the deal with this verse? It says, "and fight them until there is no more oppression and religion is ALL for Allah. And if they cease, then Allah is all-knowing of what they do."

I feel like this verse only advocates self-defense, but the words "and religion is all for Allah" make it seem like God wants world domination for muslims. This is contrary to the verse that says killing one person without reason is equivalent to killing the whole human race. I read the verses before and after 8:39, and they do seem to point to fighting against oppression, but what about religion being entirely for Allah? I thought "there is no compulsion in religion?"

I just want to clear a few things up. I understand the Quran does not advocate endless killing of everyone like ISIS does, but some verses are a little...world-domination sounding.

If Brother Joseph could answer, that would be nice.

Also, there was a hadith of Muhammad that there will be people  near the end times who create violence and have a corrupted Islamic clergy, with their own "state". This sounds like ISIS to me. Muhammad got some extra revelation from Allah, didn't he? Or else how would he have known all this? The Quran is the only thing we should follow, but it seems to me like Muhammad was given some other prophecies by God as well. Any thoughts?

Input is appreciated.

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General Discussions / Re: satan

« on: November 21, 2015, 12:16:44 PM »

Salam, yes, I think Satan only misleads people who let themselves be misled. And he can't mislead everyone at once. People's evil thoughts are just a metaphorical way of Satan influencing them.

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General Discussions / Re: The God Paradox

« on: November 21, 2015, 12:15:40 PM »

Brother Hamzeh: I think I've figured this out. A rock that God cannot lift is not a thing. Thus, there is no question of whether or not God can make it, because the concept of "it" is not there, because this "rock" is nothing. It is simply not a thing.

God says he can make anything, but such a rock is NOT a thing. There shouldn't even be any concept of such a rock.

Thanks for your input

252

General Discussions / Re: The God Paradox

« on: November 20, 2015, 11:19:30 AM »

The thing is, is Allah bound by the rules of logic? If He is, then how could He have created them? This is an important question I've been seeking the answer to for a while.

So Allah can do anything that is a "thing." Thus, he is bound by logic. But He is not supposed to be bound by anything.

Pleas help.

Mia

253

General Discussions / satan

« on: November 20, 2015, 10:23:52 AM »

First of all I want to say thank you to brother Hamzeh for answering basically all my questions so far and being patient with the stupid ones.

I was wondering, if Shaitan can tempt us all at the same time, is he omnipresent? Or does he not tempt us all at the same time? If he only tempts some of us occasionally, then how does he know when to whisper evil suggestions to us? Does Allah grant him the ability to whisper into everyone's heart at the same time?

Thanks in advance!

254

General Discussions / Re: The God Paradox

« on: November 19, 2015, 09:42:03 AM »

OK. I'm really desperate now.

I want someone to prove to me these three things: 1) The Quran is from God. 2) If the Quran is from God, then He is not lying in the Quran. 3) God is capable of everything.

These are some things I have to say on the topic:

--Just because the Quran says things that no human could ever have known, that does not mean it is from God. It simply means that it is not from a human.

--If the Quran was indeed written by God, then we cannot be sure that He is telling the truth in it.

--The Quran says God is capable of anything, but human logic proves that He is not capable of doing irrational, impossible things. Thus, he is not capable of doing everything. Thus, the Quran MUST be lying.

--And if something is not rationally possible, then God should be able to somehow make it rationally possible, or else He is not capable of everything.

If someone can refute every claim I made above, and I really hope they can, then all my faith in God will be restored.

I want to believe in God, I really do. But my rationality is telling me otherwise.

PLEASE HELP.

I really hope that everything I said above is false, but if it cannot be proven that it is false, then there is a possibility that God does not exist and everything I've ever done is for nothing.

WHERE is Brother Joseph???!!!

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General Discussions / Re: The God Paradox

« on: November 19, 2015, 08:26:07 AM »

I know this question is irrational and ridiculous, but I really need an answer.

I've been having evil thoughts lately, wondering if God is REALLY all-powerful and stuff like that. It bothers me a lot. I've tried praying, but nothing happened.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. I've been on this forum a lot lately, trying to get rid of all my doubts. That's actually why I registered this account in the first place.

I wish some miraculous realization would come and get rid of all these bad thoughts.

A lot of the questions I've been asking lately probably seem irrational and nonsensical, but I'm pretty much  unable to function like a normal girl whenever I get doubts like this. I have to keep looking for answers to stay sane.