Messages

61

General Discussions / Re: Was Adam created mortal?Or he lost immortality after disobeying God?

« on: January 16, 2015, 07:33:04 AM »

Good Logic,

With all due respect, please explain to me the two deaths and the two lives that Qoran mentions, and I will stand corrected from the view of "why we were created" ?.

Optimist has already written a couple of very good posts which explain the two deaths. Have you read them?

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=865.msg3383#msg3383
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=865.msg3387#msg3387

In short there was no previous life or spiritual state before this life we are living now. We simply did not exist. Verse 7:172 is addressing the prophet Mohammed and his people so that they can't use the excuse that it was their earliest ancestors or their fathers which were idol worshippers and that the Quraish were simply following their traditions.

As to why we are created - the Quran simply says that we were created to worship God, to be vicegerents on Earth and so that God could see which one of us was best in conduct.

I hope the above makes sense.

62

General Discussions / Re: Was Adam created mortal?Or he lost immortality after disobeying God?

« on: January 16, 2015, 06:27:31 AM »

[post created by accident]

63

General Discussions / Re: Was Adam created mortal?Or he lost immortality after disobeying God?

« on: January 16, 2015, 06:25:30 AM »

Good Logic,

With all due respect, please explain to me the two deaths and the two lives that Qoran mentions, and I will stand corrected from the view of "why we were created" ?.

I've read Joseph Islam's view on the verse 7:172 regarding our supposed existence before this life.

Sahih International
And [mention] when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, [saying to them], "Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we have testified." [This] - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, "Indeed, we were of this unaware."

I don't agree with his view on it and will create a separate thread to discuss my take on it. Maybe that would make more sense to you and some others on this forum or maybe I'll be corrected in my misunderstanding  .

64

General Discussions / Re: Was Adam created mortal?Or he lost immortality after disobeying God?

« on: January 16, 2015, 03:38:22 AM »

When we face GOD individually ,He will ask us if we have believed His message. Have we checked /investigated/aquired knowledge about Qoran?

You and I know what the messenger is going to say on the day of judgement  25:30.

Since there are no intercessors/others responsible  ...etc.I have to be sure I save my own neck. Why would I not search for the truth?  should I accept what others advise,even if they are in agreement with each other, if it is not decreed in Qoran?

Good Logic,

What do you think God's message is? I get the impression that you are attempting to understand all the verses in the Quran in order to prepare yourself for questioning by God to see if you have understand all of it.

65

General Discussions / Re: Was Adam created mortal?Or he lost immortality after disobeying God?

« on: January 15, 2015, 09:28:23 PM »

However if views/opinions/understandings are backed up from Qoran ,how can I disagree with the truth?

Problem is that anyone can use that argument to back many different views/opinions/understandings. Most of them could be totally irrelevant/wrong. Determining what the truth is about historical events is extremely hard if not impossible since we can never truly know and can only make assumptions.

66

General Discussions / Re: Saying PBUH after the name of prophet Mohammed and other prophets

« on: January 13, 2015, 05:47:18 AM »

Salaam Samson,

Welcome to the forum!

Yes, there is. Please see below:

http://quransmessage.com/articles/pbuh%20FM3.htm

Thanks, much appreciated. It's good to read something from a more learned believer that the suffix is not actually needed.

67

General Discussions / Re: Was Adam created mortal?Or he lost immortality after disobeying God?

« on: January 13, 2015, 05:37:34 AM »

For me, when I read the Quran the verses where the Devil tries to deceive Adam and Eve by promising them eternal life clearly means that they were not immortal:

But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts. He said, "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree except that you become angels or become of the immortal."

- http://quran.com/7/20

Maybe some readers get confused with them being in gardens of the hereafter which is not the case as explained by Joseph Islam.

I'd also add that even if Adam and Eve did not sin/disobey it does not mean that God may not have asked them or their descendants to leave the garden at some other point in time in order to test them with hardship in the life of this world. Which means we can't "blame" Adam and Eve for being expelled from the garden and for being the cause of us having to work for our living on earth and having hardship.

68

General Discussions / Saying PBUH after the name of prophet Mohammed and other prophets

« on: January 13, 2015, 05:19:43 AM »

Hi,

Are there any articles/posts on Josephs site/forum regarding the saying of "pbuh" after prophet Mohammed's name. I personally believe it's not compulsory as it's not in the Quran or Bible and even the hadith narrations don't have it. I'd appreciate any response/links.

Thanks