Messages

91

Women / Re: Women's clothes and rape?

« on: April 16, 2019, 09:08:17 PM »

Salaam Athman,

I think that you have tried your best to explain your points in a lot of detail with references given and also have been measured and unemotional in your delivery.

92

Women / Re: Women's clothes and rape?

« on: April 16, 2019, 02:51:47 AM »

Sigh. That wasn't what I asked. I asked your views in summary, bullet pointed. Your first post were questions. Never mind.

93

Women / Re: Women's clothes and rape?

« on: April 16, 2019, 02:33:39 AM »

ShatteredEmblem,

Moving on, please could you kindly summarise with bullet points what views of yours you feel the forum members should agree with. The topics on this thread seem to have become conflated and the discussion has branched out to polygyny.

94

Women / Re: Women's clothes and rape?

« on: April 16, 2019, 02:19:18 AM »

This matter has become unnecessarily protracted, and I have said what I needed to say.

If you want to participate on the forum, go ahead. if you feel that this forum does not allow you to express your opinions, you are free to go elsewhere.

95

Women / Re: women paridise polygamy forced

« on: April 16, 2019, 01:47:33 AM »

Salaam all,

I can provide the following link regarding a comprehensive article about hurs, that some members may find to be helpful:

http://quransmessage.com/articles/sexy%20female%20virgins%20for%20men%20in%20heaven%20FM3.htm

96

General Discussions / Re: The numerical-semantical structure of the Quran.

« on: April 16, 2019, 01:33:37 AM »

Salaam inn_a

I have looked at your posts here that go into much detail and have many mathematical calculations etc.

I just wondered if your viewpoint is that these calculations are a hidden code or they happen increase your faith in the Quran?

97

Women / Re: Women's clothes and rape?

« on: April 16, 2019, 01:14:14 AM »

You said:
"He is pushing the same interpretation"
And? What if he is? Why is this such a problem that you made a personal attack at him IMO Unwarranted and ad hominem attack.

You said:
"Sure, you may "feel" the forum is open but when I say I "feel" something, apparently it's offensive."
When you and others are pulled up on something it is done within the remit of the forum rules and etiquettes.

You said:
"Where did I attack anyone? Go on. And I reported one person for personally attacking me BECAUSE THEY DID."
I gave you an example above regarding Athman. Yes you reported one person several times whilst still engaging with him telling him to leave the women's section which is not exclusively for women btw. You were both told not to communicate with each other and you both duly obliged. However after this you proceeded to request privately that we lock the forum which seemed strange and really geared towards you stifling the forum member with which you had an issue, from sharing comments with other members.


You said:
"If you are offended over something like this, it's not really my problem. The issue here seems to be that I do not agree with that interpretation of the "polygyny" verse. Kind of proves my point really."
I can assure you that I am not offended by you, I am merely pointing out to you and to and have done to other members in the past, to remember to stay focused on the discussion at hand and not digress into pettiness.

• I can also assure you that we have dealt with a lot more contentious issues here compared to your interpretation/view of polygyny so no that is not 'the issue here.'
• Finally, yes I am actually an admin (amongst others who I think do a great job), and I have been a member here since the forum's inception many years ago and am well known to the more seasoned members here.

98

Women / Re: Women's clothes and rape?

« on: April 15, 2019, 11:40:38 PM »

Dear ShatteredEmblem,

I have noticed you make flippant comments on the forum and don't want anyone to pull you up on it. The statement you made to Athman "I really don't understand the sort of "Mr Joseph Islam is always right" type of mentality that some seem to have on this forum" seemed to me to be totally random and made out of frustration on your part. Let alone it not being linked to what he was trying to explain to you, which I actually felt was well balanced and thought out, with lots of references given.

Lets say that there are some people who agree with Joseph Islam on all his points, why does that bother you?  They have that right as you have the right not to agree. After I discuss topics with other members here and they have a different view from me,I don't get frustrated but rather think 'Each to their own'.


You said:"It seems this forum isn't so open after all". I actually feel it is very open but you have to be prepared to be challenged too. We have a code of conduct that is a remit for any discussions here. You have complained about forum members making personal attacks on you, yet you seem to be attacking others here willy-nilly.

99

Women / Re: Women's clothes and rape?

« on: April 15, 2019, 09:59:00 PM »

Dear ShatteredEmblem,

For now, I believe in the interpretation which takes orphans/proper benefits into account. I really don't understand the sort of "Mr Joseph Islam is always right" type of mentality that some seem to have on this forum. Please respect my understanding.

I strongly feel that there was no need to make the statement you just did regarding Joseph Islam. Our forum members are intelligent and rightly try to research and scrutinize the Quran to the best of their abilities.

If some forum members happen to agree with Joseph Islam's works, it is because his arguments and detailed analysis of the Quran seem convincing to them.

Of course there are a lot of people who respect his large body of work, both on this forum and outside (academics and non academics) but this is purely as a function of his arguments alone because he is completely anonymous.


In fact, there is a whole section on this forum dedicated for critiques and debates which can be found here:

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?board=23.0

100

Women / Re: Women's clothes and rape?

« on: April 15, 2019, 06:47:35 AM »

I have said before here that that it is not right for men to leer at women let alone grope them.

Those doing this next to the Kabbah is disgusting and this would clearly break their state of Ihraam.

Again, it's all about personal accountability. Unfortunately this type of behaviour can only be corrected on a macro-level with a multifaceted approach by leaders across the board.

In the videos about Egyptian men..this is a blatant display of the thought processes I mentioned in my earlier post. They are showing you what they are thinking and that's scary.

Scary because in other countries, where there is no such overt behaviour in public by men, it leads me to ask 'are they thinking like this inside?' At the end of the day they are all men.

You can never stop harassment fully even if you cover up in a conservative Islamic manner but I definitely feel that  you can lessen it to quite an extent.

I say this from personal experience as I can compare this to the period of time when I didn't cover and wore a different type of attire.

I don't want to give men a chance to 'look me over' and I feel I can control this somewhat by controlling what I wear and therefore am more empowered because unfortunately I can't force them to look away.

101

Women / Re: Women's clothes and rape?

« on: April 15, 2019, 01:04:01 AM »

Salaam Duster,

I may get lambasted for this but I feel the focus on women to cover is to guard themselves from the attention of men.

Men who I feel are definitely driven by their sexual hormones , much more than women are. As far as I am aware, men get  consumed with sexual thoughts that get triggered quite easily.

God created them that way but maybe their test in that area is going to be harder because they have been ordered to restrain themselves.

102

Women / Re: Women's clothes and rape?

« on: April 14, 2019, 04:10:23 AM »

Dear ShatteredEmblem,

I agree when you mention that some people in the West are unaware of the extent of harassment that women can receive in certain majority Muslim countries.I must stress 'certain' as other places seem to be in balance so I am not sure what is behind the cultural mindset of those offending countries.

For things like this to happen in Makkah is truly outrageous but remember that it is frequented by so many different nationals who seem to bring their own cultural baggage with them. Being a Holy sanctuary doesn't seem to deter the many thieves that lurk about and steal whilst pilgrims are praying and worshipping!

So again it comes down to personal responsibility and really looking at what the faith commands of you as a servant of God. Sadly many people only focus on certain aspects of faith for example strictly consuming only halal meat, yet might think its okay to watch x rated movies.

Regarding men being more sexualised than women, I am not sure that society can be blamed for it as such because men do actually 'think' differently in this department and this is well know and documented.

I actually think that society now (especially in the West) is pushing a movement where women under the guise of so called 'empowerment' are almost trying to compete with men in terms of their sexual conduct. In their quest for equality they stooping to  becoming debased and are in turn playing into men's fantasies!

I do cover my hair, with a headscarf or hats depending on where I am going as I like to be flexible but still cover

103

Women / Re: Women's clothes and rape?

« on: April 14, 2019, 01:23:40 AM »

Salaam all,

As a woman myself, I  can understand the frustration regarding certain Muslim countries and the seemingly 'normalised' culture of some men ogling at and groping women, even those who are wearing very conservative attire.

This type of behaviour has absolutely no place at all in Islam and men of this faith should be more careful of how they interact with the opposite gender.

ShatteredEmblem mentioned Egypt for example, a place where there is a prevalence of highly inappropriate behaviour, even towards women who are almost covered from head to toe.

This does not mean that the directive for them to cover is not working, in my opinion, it is due to a total lack of general respect towards women that some men seem to have and is has become entrenched as 'the norm'. I think that the men here need to be taught how to conduct themselves in public and maybe a media campaign with input from clergy is a much needed step in the right direction.

However I also feel that the Quran and it's directives should be heeded to and whereas there is equality for both genders when it comes to our Creator, in society there are different roles assigned to us. God who created us knows our urges and weaknesses and it is with that in mind that we see a greater emphasis placed on women when it comes to covering.

If both genders took on their roles responsibly, then we can have a more decent environment to function in. Both men and women should guard their modestly and lower their gaze. I feel that many people overlook this in particular because it actually has so many nuances to it. There is human nature and then there is a directive given to us to try to keep this in check and not behave like animals!

I do feel that men in general are more 'sexualised' than women and I really feel that we ought to acknowledge this. Of course both genders have urges and desires but as far as I am concerned, men are tuned in to this much more.That is why I feel for myself , that I should dress modestly and cover up, because I feel more safe not to be glared at in certain places where men's eyes seem to wonder.


In some aspects of our lives, inevitably there will be different tests because we are in fact different.

104

Discussions / Re: External Posts - Broken links

« on: January 12, 2018, 07:05:33 PM »

Salaam,

Then there is nothing I or any other moderator can do if the external poster has not made the post public or you are not on their friends list.

If any of brother Joseph's Facebook personal posts are not working from the 871 posts shared, please let me know.

Thanks

105

Discussions / Re: External Posts - Broken links

« on: January 12, 2018, 10:40:26 AM »

Salaam Student,

The links you have provided are external links which may require a Facebook account to view.

I suggest you follow the link below to Facebook posts which has listed: 871 posts at the time of writing.

http://quransmessage.com/(9)%20Facebook/Shared/fbmainlinksFM2.htm

If you note, it says on the page "(No Facebook account is necessary to view posts in the direct links below. Exceptions provided)" Please note the mention of 'Exceptions provided'. In those links, wherever you see a post that starts 'External Post' (e.g post number 526, 525, 520 etc), you will need a Facebook account to view it as they are posts by other Facebook users and they may not be public. Some of these users may have removed their post or even their account, so they may not be viewable.

However, you should see the other vast number of posts (many many 100s!) that are clearly presented on this page and do not say 'External Post'.

Thanks