Messages

91

General Discussions / Re: Wine in the Quran

« on: February 02, 2014, 12:33:53 PM »

Salaam Deliverance,

 You got to ignore Islamic critics because it is NEVER going to go away until Muslims get their act together and start following and understanding Islam, i.e. Quran as Allah ordered us. I strongly without doubt believe have it not been for the Hadith books, Muslims understanding their scripture and studying it instead of being brainwashed and afraid to stand up for their deen against scholars, imams, sheiks, fairytale books, and be the Muslims that Allah ordered us to be,  no one will have any feet to stand on to criticize Islam. Because the Quran, is perfect, it's Allah's words, does not get better than that! I am so tired of hearing about the 72 virgins all over you tube.. Wanna guess where that came from? Quran will be indeed misunderstood, but one can correct critic and the critic will not be able to debate much longer.. as for the Hadith? No one can go around that because it is exactly what it says, although not true, but why are Muslims believing in it and following it? God will never help anyone or make changes, unless they make the change themselves, that includes understanding what the Quran says, and following it.

  A wise man said to me not long ago this...

""Both the traditionalists and the vehement critics often have one common agenda. They both want to maintain the religious authority of 'secondary sources' as a key part of Islam. You see, the traditionalist has a vested interest as it supports their ideologies / beliefs and the ardent 'critic' wants to use these sources to undermine and at times, ridicule this otherwise, pure religion."

"So ‘Islamic secondary sources’ are very important to both parties."
"Once the rug of authority attached to secondary sources is pulled beneath their feet, much of their arguments become futile."  "Many know this and thus, will use similar arguments to reinstate the authority of these extraneous sources."

 

92

General Discussions / Re: Critique - DOES THE QURAN ALLOW ... DOGS, CATS, RATS ETC? by Arman Aziz

« on: February 02, 2014, 01:42:24 AM »

Salaam Deliverance,

I laugh when people get attacked by sharks... Now humans know how it feels going after these beautiful creatures...  It is a Beast... It has it's own community just like us...
There is a verse in the Quran about how we humans are.. Greedy, unthankful.. Those are my words not Gods...

93

General Discussions / Re: Critique - DOES THE QURAN ALLOW ... DOGS, CATS, RATS ETC? by Arman Aziz

« on: February 01, 2014, 10:52:17 AM »

 Salam Nura,

I know about the Grandmother marriage stuff. I was actually laughing about it.


Salaam Saba,

For sure Brother J has it down. But the stuff in the sea those animals still fall under (carnivorous and omnivorous)

 I without a doubt know that animals that eat other animals (carnivorous and omnivorous) are not allowed to eat based on what God tells us in the verse he is prohibiting Swine, blood, flesh etc. God mentions the animal and gives us an example is what the theme in the Quran has been.

This is the reason one needs to study their Quran and reason with what God is saying...

94

General Discussions / Re: Critique - DOES THE QURAN ALLOW ... DOGS, CATS, RATS ETC? by Arman Aziz

« on: February 01, 2014, 09:12:56 AM »

 

95

General Discussions / Re: Critique - DOES THE QURAN ALLOW ... DOGS, CATS, RATS ETC? by Arman Aziz

« on: February 01, 2014, 08:15:21 AM »

Salaam Saba,

Oh my God, I am laughing so hard, (see link below)

I can not contain myself....  ???Just because God does not spell it out, does not mean it is allowed...

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=433.0

96

General Discussions / Re: Critique - DOES THE QURAN ALLOW ... DOGS, CATS, RATS ETC? by Arman Aziz

« on: February 01, 2014, 07:58:01 AM »

Salaam Saba,

I am sorry I started all this naughty animal stuff.. I was making a point...

Maybe this makes more sense....

As for stunning the animal, giving it a blow, shooting it, this itself render’s the animal impure and unlawful. How are you going to slaughter a tiger, lion, shark, and whale? HOW? You become it’s food than (I seem to have this wicked pleasure when I hear of an animal killed a human and has eaten some flesh) You cannot kill it in anyway except described by God….when you are ONLY ALLOWED to SLAUGHTER IT, how can one slaughter a whale? Tiger or bear, Okay let’s say you shoot it, it dies, so it becomes automatically unlawful, it is considered DEAD MEAT before you slaughter it. Forbidden!! I just view this as Allah want't to see if we are paying attention to the manor on how he ordered you guys to slaughter...
If one assumed "lawful" NOT MENTIONED or not prohibitted thing needs to be met with what is commanded as Unlawful by Allah i.e. method I mention above, which one hold more weight? It does not mean because it is not mentioned that it is lawful, God eventually gives other verses leading to all this..

Many people like to quote verse 5:96 about sea food. It says:
"Allowed for you is the GAME OF THE SEA AND ITS FOOD, as a provision for you
and for the travelers." They conclude that based on this verse all sea food
should be allowed.

First of all, you have to look at the context of the verse. It was revealed
as part of the rules explaining the restrictions on a person who is in ihram
(the pilgrim's garment) during the pilgrimage. The whole passages reads as
follows:

"O you who believe!
"Do not kill the game while you are in the pilgrim garb. And whosoever among
you kills it intentionally, then the compensation of it is that the like of
what he killed from the cattle as adjudged by two just men from among you.
[This compensation is] an offering to be brought to the Ka`ba, or the
expiation of it is the feeding of the poor or the equivalent of it in
fasting so that he may taste the heinousness of his deed.
God has pardoned what is gone by; and whoever returns to it, then God will
exact penalty from him, and God is Mighty, Lord of Retribution."

After this prohibition about killing the game, the next verse says:

"ALLOWED for you is the GAME OF THE SEA AND ITS FOOD, as a provision for you
and for the travelers; and FORBIDDEN for you is the GAME OF THE LAND so
long as you are in the pilgrim garb; and fear God unto whom you shall be
gathered."

What this verse is saying is that
        "the game of the sea and its food" is allowed to the pilgrims
        even when they are in the state of ihram;
        whereas the "game of the land" is haram
        as long as they are in the state of ihram.

This verse is not defining what is the permissible "food" from the game of
sea. It is just saying that whatever was allowed (in case of sea food) is
also allowed in ihram, and that whatever was allowed (in case of the game of
land) is not permissible in ihram.

If the verse is saying that all kinds of the "game of sea and its food" is
Permissible, then what would one say about the next sentence---Would all
kind of land animals be allowed after the pilgrim is out of ihram?! No one
takes the expression in the second sentence "the game of the land" as a
blanket approval for all land animals. Similarly, no one should take the
expression in the first sentence "the game of sea and its food" as a blanket
approval for all sea animals.

Moreover, the words "the game of sea and ITS FOOD" show that not every
"game/catch of sea" is food; otherwise, there was no need to add the words
"and its food" in this sentence. It would mean that you are allowed to catch
many things from the sea but only "its food" is permissible for you to eat.

I will no longer comment on this matter...

97

General Discussions / Re: No Arab Muslim Specialist in Qur'anic Studies has made an English Translation.

« on: February 01, 2014, 07:36:06 AM »

Salaam Wakes,

I know the verse meaning that BJ has and meaning. I am just agreeing with Daniel how the English translation is very confusing and the meaning of words is written by the authors own thinking and it takes away the whole meaning of the point of the verse.

Thank You thou.. I am not married nor ever will go that route so I am not worried about a man beating me...  loool 

98

General Discussions / Re: No Arab Muslim Specialist in Qur'anic Studies has made an English Translation.

« on: February 01, 2014, 02:56:18 AM »

Salaam Daniel,

I agree with you 100%. We do not need somoene who is a scholor to do this either otherwise we will never get anywhere. It is going to take people like us in this site to figure something out and start doing something about it. Many translations I come across has opnion  than the real meaning on many words that is the focus of the verse.

Here is an example #1 of Verse Al-Nisa 4:34 Yusuf Ali: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
 

Sahih International: Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

Pickthall: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

Yusuf Ali: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

Shakir: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Muhammad Sarwar: Men are the protectors of women because of the greater preference that God has given to some of them and because they financially support them. Among virtuous women are those who are steadfast in prayer and dependable in keeping the secrets that God has protected. Admonish women who disobey (God's laws), do not sleep with them and beat them. If they obey (the laws of God), do not try to find fault in them. God is High and Supreme.

Mohsin Khan: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill­conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.

Arberry: Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for God's guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; God is All-high, All-great.

REAL MEANING... from BJ (Part)
"...As from those whom you fear ill-conduct (Arabic: nushuzahunna) advise them (Arabic: fa'izuhunna) and (Arabic: wa) forsake their (Arabic: uh'juruhunna) beds and (Arabic: wa) separate from them (Arabic: idribohunna); but if they return to obedience, then do not seek against them a way. Indeed, God is Most High, The Greatest"

And this misrepresented verse leads to people who are nonn muslim that Islam promotes wife beating.. What is worse is muslims who read or listen to this verse also think God is giving them permission to beat their woves and some surely do..
There are soooo many verses, and not everyone can read Arabic, that is why we need someone.. Hint Hint..  BJ, to start when he is willing and ready..

99

General Discussions / Re: Critique - DOES THE QURAN ALLOW ... DOGS, CATS, RATS ETC? by Arman Aziz

« on: January 31, 2014, 06:19:29 PM »

Salam Nura,

I am very sorry, I disagree with you completly. re read what you said and re read what I sais in all my comments.

As for your last comment about bahr.. again u are wrong.. not because I said so, but because Allah does. u are missing every point we are putting down from the quran.

I do not care if you are a convert or not, it does not matter.. my point is, you are not understanding what the quran is saying and saying false things claiming what God is saying when hHe is telling you the oppisite what you want to hear or believe.

Salaam.. I am done with this topic.

100

General Discussions / Re: Critique - DOES THE QURAN ALLOW ... DOGS, CATS, RATS ETC? by Arman Aziz

« on: January 31, 2014, 03:49:10 PM »

 Salaam Nura,

I put what I believe and think according to the Quran. What you put does not make sense to me on how you are explaining it and justifying it as Arman did.

No one is Idolizing brother Joseph. I certainly am not, nor do I think others are. If we look up to him for teaching us, it does not mean we are idolizing him. BJ, himself admits when he is wrong and if the other person has it right, many times, read the forum.


He CLEARLY is putting down the proof, not as a matter of what he thinks but what ALLAH says in the Quran. I am sorry, but one can not argue when presented with the truth from Gods words. When BJ comments, writes an article and does not find anything from Allah in there that is the seal of the topic, he gives his opinion and says Allah know best, or only Allah knows this is what I think in this matter, and he only puts the proof that he gets from Allah's words.

I am not attacking Arman, He should have showed his proof as BJ, how can one dispute with the truth when it is Allah's words?

Animals that eat other animals? again... forbidding unless Allah tells us otherwise. What do dogs catch for the hunter?
Birds/ducks.. look up the verse in the Quran= allowed if God is allowing it, do we need God to say, I am allowing birds and ducks? Nope..He does this in so many different topics throughout in the Quran... Only God knows why He is allowing certain things He is prohibiting as a whole. cattle... mentioned.. allowed.. horses, mules... mentioned... for riding and adornment=not allowed to eat.. Unless one studies the entire Quran and carefully pays attention to the theme God is giving us, nothing will make sense..As I said, I stand with what I wrote from examining every single thing BJ said, upon myself looking into this matter years ago on my own,  and from knowing this by paying attention to how Allah is talking to us.  Brother Joseph nor I or anyone on this forum are not forbidding people from doing anything, we are saying what God is saying, that is all, how we are understanding Gods words and message. People can do what they want if they feel they hear God saying it differently than we are saying it. That is between God and them. I studied many other verses that pertain to food consummation that were not mentioned by anyone, but I did not list them because I wanted to make sure first. After listening to them all evening, I am more than sure they fall in the category we are speaking about, which again all flows in the subject of consumption.


As sex with animals.. You were missing my point I was making... People ask.. well being a lesbian is not mentioned in the Quran, so I guess it is OK. Again, the theme God is saying, people are not getting otherwise they will  wonder what is being said at automatically think because He did not mention it it is not prohibit it. He does not have to spell it out and many Muslims are sooooo use to the Hadith having anything their brains desires to know (I am not saying Arman ever believed in hadith or used it , I am saying many Muslims in general)  and they let go and they think it is not in the Quran. I have no idea if you are a convert or was a Muslim all your life, you will see all over the Internet and interacting with others, that many Muslims who have been Muslims all their life, have this assumption that is it is not spelled out, it is a free for all.  I am not saying ALL, but majority, which they find the hadioth which goes on many subjects against what the quran is saying.

The animals and sex thing was not directed at Arman, absolutely not, it was a statement I made as general on how many people think God needs to say no or yes, do or don't for it to be allowed or not, believe it or not, people are doing it... even Muslims... There was a blog when a guy asked a scholar what exactly I am saying... well God did not say it is unlawful!


As for eating animals in general, I am not saying don't, I do not for personal reasons nor consume any animal products. I know God allows it. I just happen to be an extreme animal lover since I was a child who sees no benefit from any of it for myself, but mostly I am disgusted with putting anything in my body that was once a living breathing thing or it came out of a living and breaking creature. I am just programmed very differently from many people.


God tells us there are many benefits, indeed, but it is just not from me. Just a extreme health nut as well... I buy my dog meat all the time and cook it for him... yummy he loves it.. I just will not kill it myself..

Hope this clarifies it.. It is not an attack on anyone...I do not do that to people.. I am a teddy bear...  I am just a very direct person on my choice of words...

Salaam

101

General Discussions / Re: Critique - DOES THE QURAN ALLOW ... DOGS, CATS, RATS ETC? by Arman Aziz

« on: January 31, 2014, 11:33:17 AM »

 Salaam AlaikumTrue Seeker,

  Well curtains are not creatures of Allah's creation, so to say... go ahead... lol
 It is a dangerous thing when people compare other things than the matter of subject to convince themselves that they are right and others are wrong, or it must be okay and not prohibited, especially when the "others" are saying the TRUTH and it is not their "beliefs,"  of the subject in matter, rather it is the words of Allah.


I always say to Muslims and non Muslims that scholars, Imams nor Hadith and Sunna speak for Islam. It is God who speaks for Islam in a book called the Quran!!! It is up to each person to discover it and search for the truth in it. It is all in there. To believe that God left things out, and was not clear shows the person is not really connected to God.

What is next? God did not mention it is Haram/prohibited to have sex with animals because He does not give a Prohibition in the Quran that it is not spelled out?? I without doubt believe that everything is in the Quran, we might not have found everything yet, but it is in there...

May Allah protect all the Animals from any abuse or harm, that He created, big and small!  Sadly, lots of Muslims eat Locust.. I puked in my mouth when I saw this just now and thought of a Muslim web page I came across months ago that gave it's audience the green light to go ahead,  including blood from the spleen and liver of an animal that they kill. Bahhhhhh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlYlNF30bVg

 

102

General Discussions / Re: Hello from a Monotheist outside of Islam

« on: January 31, 2014, 08:05:58 AM »

Salaam Daniel,

Can you please explain to me Christian Tauhid. I looked it up and read stuff, I am either ignorant to understand what the beliefs are or simply lost. I ask because I have never heard of it until I joined this site. You write differently on Christian Tauhid than what I  read. You call Jesus Nabi Issa, they say on the website I looked at He is God, but do not believe in the trinity.

I actually love learning about others religion in general, that is why I ask..

As per the video, No, It is a Gary Miller Video. Indeed, Yes without doubt, The Torah, Psalms, Gospels and Quran are Holy scriptures from God. I am a Muslims, that is part of being on id, believing those are from God without Question.


I watched it last night, I learned stuff from both sides.


Like I never knew Jesus fasted a month at a time or prayed like Muslims today did, I did not know all that was in the bible..


 I am obsessed to learn more about Jesus and extremely fascinated by how he was... such an inspirational man...


Salaam

103

General Discussions / Re: Critique - DOES THE QURAN ALLOW ... DOGS, CATS, RATS ETC? by Arman Aziz

« on: January 31, 2014, 06:46:15 AM »

Salaam Alikium Saba,

You are very welcome.. Thank for liking....

104

General Discussions / Re: No Arab Muslim Specialist in Qur'anic Studies has made an English Translation.

« on: January 31, 2014, 06:36:56 AM »

Salaam,

I myself find the English translated Quran disappointing, as I read through it, I always feel, something is not right here. I always goo and listen to the verse in Arabic to get a better understanding. I get very very confused when stuff is put in parentheses.

That is why I encourage Brother Joseph to humbly write one..    At least he will get the meaning of thetranslation correct..

105

General Discussions / Re: The danger of the "Qur'an only" Approach

« on: January 31, 2014, 02:34:19 AM »

Salaam Daniel,

Here is a good Video by Dr. Gary Miller. He speaks about Jesus fasting and praying.. I am learning so much about Jesus.. I wanna really meat him some day if God allows InshaAllah...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll7O-p1dZtA