Messages

Salam alaykum.

My dear brothers and sisters, please watch this video below and share your thoughts.

Sunni Muslims vs Quran Alone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV4Oogq0djw


Regards.

[INSIDE/WITHIN/AMONG (feehinna)]

Dear Wanderer,

I understand what you mean.

Let me summarize below my contention as simply as possible:

Traditional scholars say that we can only see one heaven out of seven or several other heavens. But I say we can see seven/several heavens and not just one heaven.

Traditional scholars say that we only see one heaven because Allah said each heaven is on top of another heaven and only the lowest heaven is decked with stars and planets. I say that maybe these verses which say that 'each heaven is on top of another heaven' and 'only the lowest heaven is decked with stars and planets' may have been translated wrong because in 71:15-16 God said he has placed the moon INSIDE/WITHIN/AMONG (feehinna) the seven/several heavens.

71:15-16
Literal word-by-word translation: Do not you see how did create Allah (the) seven heavens (in) layers, And made the moon THEREIN/INSIDE/WITHIN (feehinna) a light and made the sun a lamp?

According my current understanding and analysis of the word 'feehinna', if the moon is inside/within the seven/several heavens, then that means we should be able to see the seven/several heavens as it is inside/within them. If you think the usage of the word 'feehinna' in the above verse does not prove my understanding, then you may share why do you think this understanding is wrong.

[[1]]

Dear Wanderer,

I have read the article many times which you have kindly shared. I agree with brother Joseph's conclusions. But I cannot simply accept the traditional interpretations regarding the other aspects of heaven without questioning.

According to brother Joseph, in his article titled 'Heaven(s) and Paradise - The Difference' [1], he wrote:

"The word Samawaat(i) (a plural of 'Samaa') refers to the sky and any part of the wider expanse of the universe."

So according to the above definition of 'samawaat' can we say that samawaat (plural) is observable? Or only a sama (singular) is observable? Where does God expect us to look at? Does God expect us to look at a sama (singular) or at samawaat (plural)? According to 10:101, God wants us to look at in the samawaat (plural):

10:101
Say, "See, what (is) in the heavens (assamawati) and the earth."..

So does that mean we can look at heavens, i.e. several / many heavens? If yes, then why does traditional scholars say that we can only see the lowest heaven (singular), yet God tells us to look at in the heavens (plural)? Am i completely missing something or are my questions valid according to you?


Reference:
[1] http://quransmessage.com/articles/heaven%20and%20paradise%20FM3.htm

[in full harmony with one another]

Firstly, I would like to apologize cause I made a mistake in my previous post. The phrase in question is "as-sama ad-dunya" and not "as-sama wa al-ardh".

What does the word 'dunya' mean? It can mean something which is 'lower or near', and it can also mean the 'world'. In most verses 'dunya' has been translated as the world, so why in this case could it not be possible?

Check this word dunya here: http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=dnw#(67:5:4)

Before we discuss further, can you tell me what do you understand by the word 'samawaat', plural of heaven, i.e. heavens? Do you think each heaven is on top of the other, like in layers? Does 67:3 tell us that each heaven is "on top of the other" or does it say each heaven is "in harmony" with one other? Because there is a clear difference between being on top of one another and being in harmony.

67:3
Muhammad Asad: He who has created seven heavens in full harmony with one another..

Yusuf Ali: He Who created the seven heavens one above another..


I think most arguments arise due to our lack of understanding of such verses. If, for example, the above verse intends to mean "one above another", then a lot of questions arise like why can't we see the layers? Is there a gap between each heaven? Why can't we see any distinction between each heaven? etc. But if the verse intends to mean "in full harmony with one another" like Muhammad Asad has translated it, then these questions may not arise. Similarly a lot of questions arise if we say "God has adorned the lowest heaven with stars" as opposed to "God has adorned the heaven of this dunya with stars". And when we cannot interpret a verse properly, it is then the skeptics tend to find alleged contradictions or scientific errors.

A study of the various verses shows the Quranic 'samaawat' must lie within the scope and range of human observation and study. For example, take a look at this verse:

71:15
Alam taraw kayfa khalaqa Allahu sabAAa samawatin tibaqan
Literal word-by-word translation: Do not you see how did create Allah (the) seven heavens (in) layers

The above verse makes me feel like we as humans should be able to observe the seven/several heavens above us. But most scholars will tell you that we only see the lowest heaven and we cannot see the other heavens. This has me question the entire concept of heaven in Islamic thought and has me question the traditional understanding of the relevant verses, some of which I have discussed above.

Dear Wanderer,

Salaam and thanks for your input.

I think the problem arises when we translate "as-sama wa al-ardh" as "lower heaven". I have checked many translations of this phrase and found that everyone has translated it as "lower/nearest heaven" except for Shabbir Ahmed and Mir Aneesuddin. These two individuals have translated this phrase simply as "the sky of the world" as opposed to "lower heaven". So I also want to if "the sky of the world" could be the correct translation?

Shabbir Ahmed: And indeed, We have beautified the sky of the world with shining lamps. And made them objects of futile guesses for the satans. (15:17), (37:6-9), (72:. And for them We have prepared the doom of blazing flames.

Mir Aneesuddin: And We adorned the sky of the world with lamps and We made them missiles for the devils and We have prepared for them the punishment of blazing fire.

Translation reference: http://islamawakened.com/quran/67/5/


The contention here is that, if the stars/planets are in the lowest/nearest heaven, then how can the moon be WITHIN the seven heavens? Because we know that the moon is closer to the earth than the stars/planets, therefore the moon must also be in the lowest heaven and not "inside/within (fehinna)" the seven heavens. But if we interpret "as-sama wa al-ardh" as simply "the sky of the world", then this whole argument does not arise.

The Location of the Moon and the Stars

In the Qur'an we find the following statements about the moon and the stars:

He Who created the seven heavens, one above the other ...
And We have adorned the lowest heaven with lamps ... (67:3,5)

And He completed them seven heavens in two days
and inspired in each heaven its command;
and We adorned the lower heaven with lamps,
and rendered it guarded... (41:12)

We have indeed adorned the lower heaven with the beauty of the stars. (37:6)

Do you not see how God has created the seven heavens
one above the other,
and made the moon a light in their midst,
and made the sun as a lamp? (71:15-16)

The above is Yusuf Ali's translation. Pickthall renders Sura 71:16 as

And hath made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a lamp?

The Qur'an seems to teach that there are seven heavens, one above the other, whether it was imagined to be like storeys in a high building (flat layers) or like shells or the layers of an onion.

As a poetic way of expression this is acceptable, even though there are, scientifically speaking, no discernable stages in the universe that would allow us to differentiate between those various heavens.

However, the Qur'an specifically assigns the stars to a lower or even the lowest heaven, while it states the relationship of the moon to the totality of the seven heavens is that it is "in them" (fehinna). This gives the impression that the moon is at least as far away as the stars if not further.

But everyone knows today that the stars are much much further away from the earth than the moon. This is not a small difference, it is an issue of several magnitudes. The average distance from the earth to the moon is 384,400 km, while Proxima Centauri, the closest star to us outside of the solar system, is already about 4.3 light years = 40,682,300,000,000 km (40 trillion kilometers) away, or expressed differently, we need to multiply the distance of the moon by more than 100 million to reach even the nearest
of all the stars.

Had the Qur'an formulated "and the moon in the middle of them" then this would have been unambiguously wrong. The formulation "in them" is vague enough to still allow the possibility of the moon to be in the lowest heaven as well. The wording of the Qur'an is certainly less than scientific in this instance and suggesting wrong notions even though it is sufficiently vague to not make it a clear error. It does, however, throw substantial doubt on the claim that God made the Qur'an scientifically as a proof of its divine origin.

Though it seems quite strenuous, one could say that maybe all the stars are in the lowest of the seven heavens (as the Qur'an does) and the moon is on the lowest part of the lowest heaven (which the Qur'an neither says nor implies). The Qur'anic expression relates the location of the moon to the plurality of the heavens and says that the moon is "in them". It does not say it is exactly in the middle, but it does say somewhere "inside" when we look how this word is used elsewhere.

There are a good number of other verses where the Qur'an uses the exact same Arabic word "Fihinna" as in the verse we are talking about. In the verses 9:36 and 2:197 it is used in the phrase "the holy months, IN THEM do not ...", i.e. with the meaning of "during this time". It is used speaking of a temporal "inside".

In the following a list of verses where this word is used for location:

55:56

(about the gardens of Paradise)
IN THEM will be (Maidens), chaste, restraining their glances, ...

55:70

IN THEM will be fair (Companions), good, beautiful;-

This is clearly stating that these beautiful women are inside these gardens, and more or less in the middle or distributed, but not that they are all huddling on the boundaries of it. This will be important below.

5:120

"Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship God, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt AMONGST THEM; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.

Again, this is about Jesus, and the whole point is that he lived AMONG THEM, not a life at an obscure point at the periphery, not he was in their midst and they have no excuse that they did not hear his message because they didn't know about it.

17:44

The seven heavens and the earth, and all beings THEREIN, declare His glory: there is not a thing but celebrates His praise; And yet ye understand not how they declare His glory! Verily He is Oft-Forbear, Most Forgiving!

Again, the totality is meant, not just the beings at the periphery.

23:71

If the Truth had been in accord with their desires, truly the heavens and the earth, and all beings THERIN would have been in confusion and corruption! Nay, We have sent them their admonition, but they turn away from their admonition.

Again, IN THEM, means 'inside' those living in the earth or in the heavens.

Finally the verse 71:16 that is in question:

Pickthall: And hath made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a lamp?

Yusuf Ali: And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp?

Clearly "in their midst" is a valid translation and there is no need to understand this as "exactly in the middle heaven" but it is "inside". What does "in" refer to? It is THEM, i.e. the seven heavens, since that is what the Qur'an talks about in the verse before it.

Do you not see how God has created the seven heavens
one above the other,
and made the moon a light in their midst,
and made the sun as a lamp? (71:15-16)

No indication that the moon is on the boundary of these heavens, or even at the lower boundary of the lowest one of the seven. The natural reading is still "somewhere inside". And clearly, Yusuf Ali thought that was the natural reading.

In distinction to this, we have the very clear statement that the stars are "on the boundary" of the seven heavens since they are in the LOWEST heaven as Sura 67:5 says.

As such, maybe one cannot say that the moon is further away than the stars, but given that the stars are in the lowest and the moon is inside the heavens, the moon is at least as far away as the nearest stars and that is scientifically problematic. If it is not outright wrong what the Qur'an says due to the vagueness of expression, it does nevertheless give a wrong impression!!!

https://arabkingdom.wordpress.com/contradictions-in-quran/

[And have witnesses when ye sell one to another (waashhidoo itha tabayaAAtum)]

Salam alaykum everyone.


Verse 2:282 is the longest ayah of the Quran. But I am having trouble understanding a part of it. See the bold part in the translation below.

2:282
Pickthall: O ye who believe! When ye contract a debt for a fixed term, record it in writing. Let a scribe record it in writing between you in (terms of) equity. No scribe should refuse to write as Allah hath taught him, so let him write, and let him who incurreth the debt dictate, and let him observe his duty to Allah his Lord, and diminish naught thereof. But if he who oweth the debt is of low understanding, or weak, or unable himself to dictate, then let the guardian of his interests dictate in (terms of) equity. And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not (at hand) then a man and two women, of such as ye approve as witnesses, so that if the one erreth (through forgetfulness) the other will remember. And the witnesses must not refuse when they are summoned. Be not averse to writing down (the contract) whether it be small or great, with (record of) the term thereof. That is more equitable in the sight of Allah and more sure for testimony, and the best way of avoiding doubt between you; save only in the case when it is actual merchandise which ye transfer among yourselves from hand to hand. In that case it is no sin for you if ye write it not. And have witnesses when ye sell one to another (waashhidoo itha tabayaAAtum), and let no harm be done to scribe or witness. If ye do (harm to them) lo! it is a sin in you. Observe your duty to Allah. Allah is teaching you. And Allah is knower of all things.

The Arabic of that part is "waashhidoo itha tabayaAAtum". Most translators translate this part as "and take witness when you trade with one another / make commercial transaction".

Does this mean that if I sell something to someone or buy something from someone, we will need a witness, yet the previous part says that a buying / selling transaction may not be recorded in paper? How can it be that a paper record is not required but a witness is required? Nowhere in this world does a person buy or sell something and have it purposefully witnessed by another person.

So what could be it's correct interpretation?

Dear maverick83pk,

May peace be upon you, brother.

Thank you for reply. I understand what you are saying. I have also found two links on the internet which present, although in a bit different way, the same view that you have kindly shared.

Here are the links:

1) http://www.understanding-islam.com/q-and-a/sources-of-islam/questioning-on-judgment-day-a-contradiction-in-the-qur-an-6111

2) http://www.islammuslims.com/article/discussion_q_a/discussion_forums/tafseer_of_the_verse_so_on_that_day_no_question_will_be_asked_of_man_or_jinn_as_to_his_sin_ar_rahmaan_55_39


May Allah guide us all.

[best ye can (ma istataAAtum)]

Dear brother,

As-salamu alaykum.

Concerning this issue, I would take wisdom from the following two verses of the Quran:

5:101
O you who believe! do not put questions about things which if declared to you may trouble you, and if you question about them when the Quran is being revealed, they shall be declared to you; Allah pardons this, and Allah is Forgiving, Forbearing.

64:16
So keep your duty to Allah as best ye can (ma istataAAtum), and listen, and obey, and spend; that is better for your souls. And whoso is saved from his own greed, such are the successful.


Best wishes,
Sword

Also consider 15:92,

15:92
by your Lord, We shall question them all

[neither man nor jinn will be questioned about his sins.]

As-salamu alaykum.

Can you please brothers and sisters explain to me this "contradiction"? I know there is no contradiction in the Quran, but when I saw a verse in surah Ar-Rahman, instantly a question came into my mind, and when I searched for it on google, I found skeptics consider this as a contradiction.

55:39 says that we won't be questioned in the Day of Judgment:

55:39
For, on that Day, neither man nor jinn will be questioned about his sins.

However, in 7:6 and 102:8, we see references of God's questioning:

7:6
Then shall We question those to whom Our message was sent and those through whom We sent it

102:8
Then on that Day you shall be questioned about your worldly favours.


I am confused.

[1) Does 43:36 apply to those who have left Islam and became non-believers?]

Hi Anjum,

I am making this post to summarize everything that I have written.


1) Does 43:36 apply to those who have left Islam and became non-believers?

The answer is yes.

2) Does 43:36 apply to believers?

There are two groups of believers. One whose members are within the religion of Islam but at the same time are associating partners with God (Group A), and the second whose members are following Islam without associating partners with God (Group B). In my humble opinion, 43:36 would apply to Group A and not to Group B, because when you ask Group A to follow X from the Quran, they will say they want to follow Y because it's in the books of hadith. Therefore they are indirectly turning away from the remembrance of Allah. This is my understanding.

3) If I am not well and I miss prayer, will 43:36 apply to me?

The answer is 'no' in my opinion if you are a believer who is not associating partners with God in any way or in any form.


And Allah knows best.

[[1]]

Hi Anjum,

When I said that the appointment of a devil can apply even to 'Muslims', I made that statement based on the premise that not all Muslims are following God the way He is supposed to be followed. It is not about merely being a believer or a non-believer, but it is also about following the right guidance in the right way. Many Muslims today believe in God and in His Quran, but are they free from associating partners with God? The answer is arguably no. Idolatry from a Quranic perspective is not restricted to just statue-worshiping, but it can take other forms as well. Brother Joseph has an article regarding this matter. The link of the article is provided below [1]. Hence, it is these people who are believers only on the surface and are not pure believers, to whom surely devils can be appointed. They don't necessarily have to leave Islam altogether and / or abandon the salat.

But as for those who are following the guidance in the right way without associating partners with God in any way or in any form and who are true worshipers of God alone, satans won't have power over them:

38:82-83
(Iblis) said: "Then, by Thy power, I will put them all in the wrong, except Thy Servants amongst them, sincere and purified (by Thy Grace)."

15:41-42
God said, This is the path which leads straight to Me. Surely, you shall have no power over My true servants, except those misguided ones who choose to follow you.

16:99-100
Surely, he has no power over those who believe and put their trust in their Lord; he has power only over those who are willing to follow him and associate others with God.

On the strength of the above verses, it can be argued that God's true worshipers can't be overpowered by satan as long as they hold on to God's true guidance. I don't think merely missing a prayer because of not being well would cause a devil to be appointed to you. You can still "remember" God when you are unwell, can't you? So according to my humble opinion, my answer is 'no' if you are a real believer who do not associate partners with God in any way or in any form.


Reference:

[1] http://quransmessage.com/articles/idolatry%20according%20to%20the%20quran%20FM3.htm

[(shaytanan)]

As-salamu alaykum.

I think this is one of those verses which can be understood in different ways by different people. Here the Arabic word used for devil is 'shaytan'.

43:36
As for one who turns away from the remembrance of the Gracious God, We appoint for him a devil (shaytanan), who will become his intimate companion.

It is important to note that a shaytan can be a jinn as well as a human:

6:112
In like manner We have assigned for every prophet an opponent, Satans (shayateena) from among men and jinn, who make evil suggestions to each other by means of specious words in order to deceivehad it been your Lords will, they would not have done so; so leave them alone to their fabrication.

I think the appointment of a devil by Allah can apply even to Muslims who do not remember Allah regularly or who is very careless / less concerned about Allah in his / her daily life.


I hope it helps in some way.

Salam alaykum.

Hi good logic,

Thank you for your post. Those are some wonderful words you have said, and I completely agree it. Thank you.


Hi Mariyah,

Thank you for sharing and for your wonderful advice sister dear sister.