Messages

Salam Sis

What is comment on this link - www.free-minds.org/where-was-mohammad

Rgds

Salaam Saleh,

I checked out your link but it doesn't seem to work. Please can you post the link again.

Thanks.

Salaam

It should be

http://free-minds.org/where-was-mohammad

sorry

Sorry again, it should be http://free-minds.org/Kingdom-Israel and there there is a link to Where was Mohammad.

Salam Sis

What is comment on this link - www.free-minds.org/where-was-mohammad

Rgds

Salaam Saleh,

I checked out your link but it doesn't seem to work. Please can you post the link again.

Thanks.

Salaam

It should be

http://free-minds.org/where-was-mohammad

sorry

Salaam Chadiga,

I can see that you are researching deeply on this topic of whether the Kaaba is in Makkah or not.
Since the era of Islam, on a practical day to day basis, Muslims have been in unison regarding the direction of prayer.

I feel that God has stressed the importance of the Qibla change and also the Masjid al Haram to the Muslims. Because of the emphasis on praying and is importance, could God have allowed it to be that Muslims place their centre of worship and Hajj in the incorrect location and direction.
In my opinion, something as important as this would surely not be overlooked by God.

As far as my knowledge on this, I do not think that in the early years of Islam, Muslims were praying in a different direction or that their Kaaba was elsewhere.

Is it not possible that like the preservation of the Holy Quran, the Muslims preserved the direction of prayer and location of the Kaaba.

Thanks

Salam Sis

What is comment on this link - www.free-minds.org/where-was-mohammad

Rgds

Salamun Alaikum

Please check FYI

www.infidels.org

Regards

[retreat [wal3kifina]]

Dear bro Wazir,

Amendment,
52:1 - Tur - It is the hallow ground where Prophet Moses was summoned by GOD - 25:22-30. This verses are connected to verses 95:2-3.
52:2-3 And the book written on parchment unfolded - These verses are connected to 53:13 - The second decent of Jibril and 75:17 - Compilation of the Quran and 25:32 - Arrange in a specific sequence.
52:4 By the House most frequented.
These verses tell us that the Quran was handed over to the Prophet Muhammad at the Tur juxtapose to the House after it was compiled and arrange in a specific sequence.
52:5-6 - the knowledge that is within the Quran.

My simple answer,
[2:125] We rendered the house a safe sanctuary. You may use station of Abraham as a prayer house. We commissioned Abraham and Ismail: "You shall purify My house for those organization [who follow millat Abraham], as those who retreat [wal3kifina] and those who bow, prostrate."

wal3kifina - if you check the AlMawrid Arabic - English dictionary, the meaning is - devoted to, dedicated to,occupied with, busy with, working at.....

Thus, 52:2-3 is connected to 52:4 as such, 'wal3kifina' can be translated as working at the House, as the House was a Masjid, 'The Palace of GOD' established on earth and it can be utilised for many purposes such as sacrifice, sermons, marriage[nikah], most important work that concern divinity.

52:2-3 is connected to 52:5-6 - knowledge that is within the Quran and 52:5-6 is independent to 52:4.

Peace

Saleh

Salam Bro Wazir

Plz refer to my opinion on 1. Tur - read 28:22-30 instead of 25:22-30. it was a typo,

Sorry Bro

[[3:96] The first house established for men is the one in Bakkah; full of blessing and guidance for all nation.]

Dear Bro Wazir

You quote on 07/01/2012:

1). I agree with you that each sura and verse are connected, but it does not mean that we can connect any two verses to prove our point. So, let me elaborate regarding point # 1.

You agree and at the same time you disagree? You need a perfect sentence then you will agree that one verse in one particular sura is connected to another verse of the other sura? Then why did GOD said - 04:82 - Why don't you ponder/analyze the Quran. Bro, if you analyze the Quran then you will have a better understanding of the intricacies of the Quranic system.

And you quote on Jan 08 2012:
So, if you still believe in your theory, you should provide rational bases for the belief and answer the questions cited in my previous post.

Third, you quoted translation of verse 21:71 in your article as under:

'21.71 And we delivered him (speaking of Abraham) and Lot to the land which we have blessed for the
Abraham and Lot took refuge in the blessed land Bakka. In the land of Midian.'

Will you explain how you arrive to words Bakka. In the land of Midian in your translation? (I have not seen these words in this verse in any translation).

So where can it be? Is the interpolation not relevent?
[2:125] We rendered the house a safe sanctuary. You may use station of Abraham as a prayer house. We commissioned Abraham and Ismail: "You shall purify My house for those organization [who follow millat Abraham], as a retreat and those who bow and prostrate."

[3:96] The first house established for men is the one in Bakkah; full of blessing and guidance for all nation.

[3:97] In it are clear signs: the station of Abraham. Anyone who enters it shall be granted safe passage. The people owe it to GOD that they shall observe Hajj to this shrine, when they can afford it. As for those who disbelieve, GOD does not need anyone.

[22:26] We appointed Abraham to establish the House: "You shall not idolize any other god beside Me, and purify My shrine for those organization (who follow millat Abraham), those who stand and those who bow and prostrate.

[22:27] "And proclaim that the people shall observe Hajj pilgrimage. They will come to you walking or riding on various exhausted (means of transportation). They will come from the farthest locations."

[22:28] They may seek commercial benefits, and they shall commemorate GOD's name during the specified days for providing them with livestock. "Eat therefrom and feed the despondent and the poor."

[22:29] They shall complete their obligations, fulfill their vows, and circumambulate the ancient house.

and

37:133-138 - And Lot was one of the messengers. When We saved him and all his family. Except an old woman who remained. Then, We destroyed the rest. And you pass by their ruins in the morning. And in the night. Do you not comprehend?

Prophet Lot was saved and delivered to the blessed land. From the verse, the ruins of the town are located on an often-travelled trade route which Prophet Muhammad and his people knew very well:

And it is on an established path. In that is a sign for the faithful. - 15:76-77

And the companions of the woods were also wrong doers. We exacted tribution from them. They were both on an open highway, plain to see. - 15:78-79

So, both the people of Prophet Lot and the people of Shuaib - companion of the woods, were near to the people of Prophet Muhammad. The people of Shuaib was in Madyan.

Again You quote on 07/01/2012:

Verse 52:1, Verse 52:2-3, Verse 52:4, Verse 52:5 and Verse 52:6 are independent to each other and connected to verses 52:7 and 52:7 onward independently and collectively, but these verses are not inter connected.  If you believe that verse 52:1 and verse 52:4 are connected, then please explain how verse 52:2-3, 52:5 and 52:6 are connected to verse 52:4?

My opinion:-

52:1 - Tur - It is the hallow ground where Prophet Moses was summoned by GOD - 25:22-30. This verses are connected to verses 95:2-3.
52:2-3 And the book written on parchment unfolded - These verses are connected to 53:13 - The second decent of Jibril and 75:17 - Compilation of the Quran and 25:32 - Arrange in a specific sequence.
52: By the House most frequented.
These verses tell us that the Quran was handed over to the Prophet Muhammad at the Tur juxtapose to the House after it was compiled and arrange in a specific sequence.
52:6-7 - the knowledge that is within the Quran.

There are lots similiraties between Prophet Muhammad and Prophet Moses. Both were given Furqan, 
Prophet Muhammad - 02:185
Prophet Moses         - 02:53 & 21:48
the only difference is that GOD spoke to Prophet Moses direct - 04:164.

Peace Brother Wazir

Salamun Alaikum Sis Chadiga and All,

Q - [3:96] The most important shrine established for the people is the one in Becca; a blessed beacon for all the people. Also read 22:26-33.

This verse tell us that all people who believe since Prophet Abraham carried out hajj ritual. Islam is as old as Prophet Abraham but men tends to go a stray after the revelation came to them. As for Prophet Jesus, The Quran has a comprehensive instruction about him and his book.

Since this is a forum, I believe most of us here like to share our ideas to a certain extend as long as we do not cross the line. 

[5:101] O you who believe, do not ask about matters which, if revealed to you prematurely, would hurt you. If you ask about them in light of the Quran, they will become obvious to you. GOD has deliberately overlooked them. GOD is Forgiver, Clement.

[5:102] Others before you have asked the same questions, then became disbelievers therein.

Salam

[05:97-GOD has made the Ka'ba, The Inviolable House, an establishment for mankind [qiamallinnas], and The Sacred Month an The Offerings and The Sacrificials Animals with Garlands; this is that you may know that GOD knows whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and that GOD is the knower of all things]

Salamun Alaikum Bro Wazir and All

1. Thank you very much for your reply and INSHA ALLAh, I will try to explain my opinion, actually I am a learner, so please bear with me and yes, the Quranic verses [52:1-4] is connected. The Quran is not as what  the sceptic Joseph Smith wrote:
" ..... The Qur'an, on the other hand, reads more like a jumbled and confused collection of statements and ideas, many of which bear little relationship to preceding chapters and verses. Many scholars admit that the Qur'an is so haphazard in its make-up that it requires the utmost sense of duty for anyone to plough through it!"

The answer to the sceptic is what the Quran says:

"We did not leave anything out of this book" 6:38
"Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?" 6:114
"The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient" 6:115
"This is not fabricated 'hadith'; this (Quran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the details of everything, and is a guidance and mercy for those who believe" 12:111
"We have revealed to you this book to provide explanations for everything, and guidance and mercy and good news for the submitters" 16:89

And I do concur with Bro Irfan on his comprehensive argument with regards to the topic 'Compilation of the Quran' and 17:01, 52:1-4 are also connected. Check it out.

2. If you could go into the articles that Bro Joseph set up - Prophet Abraham Original Sanctuary - At Bakkah or Makkah - [8] Ancients Rites were Reinstitued at The Ka'ba,

05:97-GOD has made the Ka'ba, The Inviolable House, an establishment for mankind [qiamallinnas], and The Sacred Month an The Offerings and The Sacrificials Animals with Garlands; this is that you may know that GOD knows whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and that GOD is the knower of all things

This verse is futher supported by verse 22:25
Surely those who disbelieves and hinder [men] from GOD's way and from The Inviolable Mosque which We have made equally for all men, the dweller therein and the visitor and whoever shall incline therein to wrong unjustly, We will make him taste of a painful chastisement.

You said,
Mark the contrast: People were coming to Makkah for pilgrimage of Cuboid and idols installed in it before Prophet Muhammad and till date people go there for pilgrimage.

This is in my mind, we were told to face the Sacred Masjid [02:144] - a focul point, where ever we are but where are we to face once we are there?  Are we suppose to face the ka'ba and bow and prostrate it? There is an article with regards to the 'Hateem' and its facing Jabl AlAwz? Can you explain that?

GOD is the hearer, the knower - 06:115

Salam Bro

Salamum Alaikum,

Base on the Quranic intricacies and the Articles provide by Bro Joseph and also informations form my brothers and sisters of this forum, I found it rational to say that the first House built by Prophet Abraham and his son in Bakkah could be the Masjidil Aqsa [17:1].

Masjidil Aqsa - Place of worship in remote region. The word Aqsa which means remote like isolated,in the wilderness or mountainous. During the time of the Prophet, Jerusalem were flourishing with peoples comprising of the people of the book. As such it cannot be at Jerusalem.

Q-03:97 and 22:26, The first house was a Masjid,
Q-28:22-30, tell us that Prophet Moses was first summoned by GOD at Tursina, Madyan.
Q-52:01-04, Tell us that the Tur is asociated with the House. Since there are only two sanctuaries mentioned in the Quran:
1. Q-03:96-97, 02:125, 14:37, 22:26-33 which is at Bakkah and
2. Q-05:02,95,97, 08:35, 48:25-27, which is the Sacred House [Ka'ba] in Makkah,
Thus the House mentioned in 52:04  can only be the one that was built by Prophet Abraham in Bakkah, Madyan.
Furthermore, Q-95:02-03, tell us that the Tursina is in Arabia. Historical documents shows that Madyan is in NW Arabia which is a remote mountainous region.
There are also archeological artifacts found at the seabed of Gulf of Aqaba, where the remains of the Egytion army were and these were dated back to the Exodus of the Israelites - www.wyattmuseum.com
However, archeological artifacts have nothing to say about these miracles whether they happend or not. It is a matter of faith and the Quran is the miraculous gift that GOD has given us.
It is unequovical that the first House built by Prophet Abraham and his son in Bakkah, Madyan,NW Arabia, was the Masjidil Aqsa where propbaly all the prophets were summoned during their ministries including the Last Prophet - Q-17:01 & 53:01-18.

Salam

[2- Consequently, the command to shorten the salat does not pertain to shortening the number of raka's, since (as explained) God would not give us instructions to shorten something that WE invented and which He never devised.]

Salamun Alaik Bro Joseph

I would like to quote a very interesting article with regards to the subject.

"In constant awareness that the Quran contains all the details of our religion (6:114) and that nothing has been left out of the book (6:38) it becomes evident that God did not require of us any set frequencies in connection to any of the worship practices.

1- The concept of "raka" for a start is not a Quranic concept nor format. This word is not mentioned anywhere in the Quran, consequently the starting point of this line of thought is based on a traditional concept (Raka) rather than a rule authorised in the Quran.

The Quran commands us to observe 3 positions during salat, these are the standing, bowing and prostrating (in that order), however, the Quran does not give us any specific length of time in which we are to spend in any of these three positions. Consequently, one may choose to spend 5 or 10 minutes in the standing position glorifying God, the same applies to the time one may spend in the other positions. Similarly, one may also choose to bow once or 10 times before prostrating, and as long as the bowing (in any frequency) is followed by prostrating (in any frequency), who is to say that this violates any Quranic law?

Needless to say, the traditional format for the Raka (standing, then one bowing followed by 2 prostrations) is not Quranic, and thus to adhere to this format and condition our thinking in terms of mulitiples of Raka's is to follow tradition rather than Quranic law.

2- Consequently, the command to shorten the salat does not pertain to shortening the number of raka's, since (as explained) God would not give us instructions to shorten something that WE invented and which He never devised.

3- With this in mind, the command to shorten the salat becomes more clear. Since the Quran does not authorise a specific format for the frequency of any of the three positions, thus the command to shorten the salat becomes clearly a command to shorten the OVERALL TIME we spend in our salat .... for example if we normally spend 10 minutes in one salat (which could be only one sequence of the 3 positions), at times of war we are advised to shorten this time for reasons of safety. Let us say spend only a couple of minutes. The concession to shorten the time of our salat would also mean that instead of uttering the phrase "sobhan rabi Al-Aala" (Praise God the Most High) 10 or 20 times, we can say it only once or twice."

Salam Bro

Waalaikumussalam Bro Joseph,

Actually there is one verse, 6:89 - [These were the people to whom We gave The Book and The Authority and Prophethood..........]

The verses before this verse, that is, verses 83 to 86, mentioned the name of 18 Prophets.

My humble opinion.

Jazakallahu khair

Salam Bro Joseph,

My analization from The Quran, The Torah was never mentioned together with Prophet Moses. It is only mentioned as 'kitab' or 'suhuf'. Could it be that it is a canon of the Jewish Prophets since Prophet Jacob?

Salam Bro Joseph

Salam Bro Joseph,

With regards to the bible, to my understanding is that the bible was sent down to Prophet Jesus in Greek? Greek is a European Language and Prophet Jesus, I believe is of the  Israelite race? Therefore, he should have spoken a semitic language, Hebrew or Aramic?

In the Quran, GOD says that every messengers that HE sent spoke language of their people.

Can you elucidate and thank you in advance.

Salam Bro

PEACE BRO JOSEPH

Yes, it really does, you were very explicit, especially the second question, in which there other Quran alone orgnisation says other wise.

Thanks again and GOD BLESS U.