Messages

ditto Saba. Gotta agree. I'd take his view over the hadithi one any day. its a good explanation.

Thanks truthseeker 

Salaam all - Is it OK to wish someone happy X-mas or saying Happy Diwali or other greetings which may come from pagan origins? Doc.

Thanks bro Joseph for the link.   

Salaam bro Joseph / all. - I noted a question on another forum below. I also had this question whether Muslim women can marry Jewish / Christian men? Thanks Doc. 

http://www.salaatforum.com/index.php?id=1598

Bro Sardar. You are so so right. A lot of Quran only people talk about other hadithis that rely on hadith and criticize them. Yet, they can't even agree on how many prayers in a day, question clear words of Arabic without knowledge of the language but relying only dictionaries. How can you learn a language from a dictionary? A dictionary is only useful if you understand the language first. If there is no agreement with Quran only people, how can you expect hadithis to come to your way of thinking? They will run a million miles away. It is hypocrtical in some ways to expect others to make a change, when sometimes you cannot even agree on basics. Doc.

I think this 19 stuff causes nothing but problems between Quran people!!!! And taking two verses out the Quran - that is just plain ridiculous. 

Wiki has an interesting bit on this.

Might be interesting to check it out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhul-Qarnayn


Differences Between Alexander the Great and Dhul-Qarnayn

The suggestion that Dhul-Qarnayn is Cyrus the Great is supported by some of the Quranic commentaries (Tafsir) and Islamic scholars such as Allameh Tabatabaei (in his Tafsir al-Mizan),[10] Allameh Tehrani,[8] Syed Ahmed Khan (known interpreter of the Quran), Abul Kalam Azad (Minister of Culture, India, in Majma' al-Bayan), and Dr. Baha-ed-Din Khorramshahi. Mohammad Ebrahim Bastani Parizi the historian, also deny that Dhul-Qarnayn was Alexander the Great.[11] They tend to suspect that Dhul-Qarnayn was Cyrus the Great, the King and founder of Achaemenid empire. They provide strong evidence, including artifacts, stone carving palaces and graves. Some of their reasons are:

In the carved stone that can still be seen up to now show Cyrus with his crown with two horns.[11]

According to the Quran, God's grace be with him and with it, Cyrus was the first king (several hundred years before Alexander the Great) who conquered most of Europe and Asia.[11]

Cyrus (as Dhul-Qarnayn) was a monotheist and worshipped the God, but Alexander the Great had many gods.[11]

In the Quran, Dhul-Qarnayn noted that the journey begins to the west and then to the east before the road to the other (the North), which coincided with the start the expedition of Cyrus the Persian conquest in the West to Lydia in Asia Minor and then turned to the east until the Makran and Sistan (Scythian) prior to capturing the Northeast Europe near the Balkan.[11]

Expedition of Cyrus proceeded with the conquest of Lycia, Cilicia and Phoenicia, and they used the techniques of wall construction which was not used anymore by the Greeks at that time.[11]

In accordance to story in Quran, more chances of it being Cyrus, as he ended his expeditions in 542 BC, before returning to Persia, while Alexander was still in war mission when he died.[11]

Alexander didn't built dams, there are just some fictional stories about this but there's not any historical document about it.[11] (Look at Strabo's Geography for more information)[10]

Besides, Alexander also said to be as generous as it is said Alexander drinking alcohol and partying often, and also had a man, Hephaestion, as a lover.[10][11][12]

Azad also rejected what it already belongs to Qahtaan Arabic Yemen, on the basis that the question of the Jews by the Prophet was with a view to embarrass him, even if the Arabs of Quraish were aware of it and asked what was miraculous.[10][11][12]

Azad builds his theory on the basis that the origin of the name "Dhul-Qarnayn" comes from the name stated in the Torah is "Haqqərānayim" which is launched by the name of the Jews to Cyrus, to show tolerance to them when his predecessors had been unjust to them.[11][12][13]



In Old Testament

Main article: Daniel 7

In Arabic translations of the Old Testament, the word "Dhul Qarnayn" (Hebrew: Ba'al Haqqərānayim בעל הקרנים) appears once in the Old Testament, in the Book of Daniel 8:20:
أَمَّا الْكَبْشُ الَّذِي رَأَيْتَهُ ذَا الْقَرْنَيْنِ فَهُوَ مُلُوكُ مَادِي وَفَارِسَ
הָאַיִל אֲשֶׁר-רָאִיתָ, בַּעַל הַקְּרָנָיִם--מַלְכֵי, מָדַי וּפָרָס

Translation:
(New International Version): The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. Daniel 8:20
(JPS 1917 Hebrew Bible in English): The ram which thou sawest having the two horns, they are the kings of Media and Persia. Daniel 8.

The Qur'an is not company rules or a doctor's instructions. It has natural rhythm which you can never pick up in a translation. I know to those that understand Arabic as a mother tongue, it is mesmerizing. I think good recitors - those whose natural tongue is Arabic change their tone depending on what they are reading. deep or high tones etc etc. Maybe a bit like the Jewish hymns.  Doc. 

Salaam all - I noted a parallel thread on the free-minds forum as well. Might prove useful. Thanks Doc. 

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603447.msg292009#msg292009

Like you I follow the Quran. The Quran tells me to rely on clear proof, not to rely on assumption (zan - 6:116) and to verify (17:36). It also asks me not to enter arguments (tumari) but to rely on a matter that is clear or obvious (zahir - 18:22).

That is an important point!    Salam

I think you refer to Sajda e-Tilawat which is required in about 15 or so places in the Quran according to the traditionalists. This is a non Quranic practice I think which is based on secondary sources. There is also some disagreement in the madhabs, some say 14 others 15.  Salam, Doc.

[for me]

salamu aleikum

from your tone it seems, that you are not happy with my opinion...

[quoteSo are you saying just because the other verses don't have a 'knife' involved, that means that the verses cannot be understood as 'cutting'?]

When when you read what i write, then it's clear, that for me it's a key to understand the verse like that. I'm not the one she makes claims and think to have the ultimative truth.. we are here for searching and share many opinions, no need to blame one another.in  the topic [urlhttp://quransmessage.com/forum/
you will find a good intellectuel answer. In arabic qamus we found also the meaning for the word  is not only cutting physicially. brother Joseph he wrote a very good article about cutting the hand. salamu aleikum wa rahmatullah

Dear chadiga, Sorry, you'll have to excuse my style of writing. I didn't mean to sound rude. You actually come across as a very intelligent person. I just wanted to get to the bottom of your point so I could understand it better. Also wanted to know if you had proof of the cutting part in any other literature been used figuratively. Sorry once again. I'm more of a reader than a writer here so not very good when I make comments.  Salam.

[in sura jusuf the mention of 'sikina'(knive)]

we see in sura jusuf the mention of 'sikina'(knive). that it is right for this situation and also the key for understand the other verses - in no other place Allah give us the mention from the object with we must cut be. nowhere we found anything. so it seems, that Allah want tell us that it's a allegory. my humble interpretation.

So are you saying just because the other verses don't have a 'knife' involved, that means that the verses cannot be understood as 'cutting'?

"cut off hands and feet of each other" very well have been used in a figurative sense:

Do you have any clear evidence in any Arab classical works or evidence in their Arab language where cutting of hands and feet have been used figuratively?

Salam.

Aslamalaykum all,

I have a question so that I can help my own understanding better.

Is there any mention in the Quran that regular prayers in the day have been 'prescribed' for certain parts of the day or is it a recommendation for Muslims as in 'establishing prayer'? I am not sure if any punishment is given in the Quran for not establishing it.