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Messages - Truth Seeker

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General Discussions / Re: Is Qur'an preserved ?
« on: August 27, 2020, 10:19:58 AM »

Maybe this article by Joseph Islam will help IA:

The Complication Of The Quran


I am not sure if there is an implication that it is over several years. Could it be that it will feel like a day but it won't be an Earth day because we will be in a different time and dimension?

General Discussions / Re: Abstention of Mary and Zacharia
« on: August 27, 2020, 10:07:34 AM »
It happens quite a lot so am used to it... No need to apologise :)

General Discussions / Re: Why the pronoun He is for Allah?
« on: July 09, 2020, 01:18:01 AM »

I agree with Relearning that 'He' would be the only option because the the Arabs considered females to be inferior.


I agree with Good Logic in that this is a virus that is real and exists. I have heard of those who feel this is a conspiracy theory but that is unbelievable to me!

What gain will governments have when their economies are on the brink of ruin, with mass unemployment and financial despair for so many.

General Discussions / Re: Sons>Daughters (?)
« on: July 09, 2020, 01:06:29 AM »
Salaam all

I think it was prevalent in Arab culture that sons were considered more in status than daughters. In the eyes of God, He is above His creation so it would be abhorrent to attribute sons or daughters to Him. As some one pointed out earlier, there is a verse where God refers to those who were given glad tidings of a daughter, so He does not think them to be bad/inferior.

However those who were attributing daughters to God were in fact insulting Him because in their culture, daughters were unwanted. So surely if they were to attribute anything to God, it would be sons because they were revered so much and and considered to be the best?

General Discussions / Re: Iblis a angel/Jinn a proper name?
« on: July 09, 2020, 12:53:41 AM »

There was a member before who asked if Satan was a fallen angel or a jinn and Joseph replied with the following:


As-salamu alaykum

JazakAllah Khair for your kind comments. I am only a mere humble servant of God and only He knows the true condition of everyone's hearts. We ardently seek His mercy, God willing.

Please see below my response to your question.

There is not one explicit statement in the Quran which categorically states that Iblis (Satan) was an angel. Such an understanding is only 'implied' from verses where the angels were asked to prostrate (2:34, 15:28, 20:116, 38:71, 7:11, 17:61), yet Iblis did not.

The other source of interpretation is through popular Biblical understanding. However, it may come as a surprise to many Muslims and Christians that not once does the Bible categorically state that Satan / Lucifer was an angel. This is merely an interpretation,  and yet there are passages in the Bible which can lead the ardent enquirer to conclude that he was an entity other than an angel. Furthermore, there arguably are certain characteristics of the angels that could be derived from the Biblical narratives which the Quran may not be deemed to support. A full exposé of the Biblical position would be outside the scope of this response. Suffice to say, one must be prepared to challenge popular thought through the lens of its underpinning scriptural source.

However, there are explicit statements which categorically state that Iblis was a Jinn (18:50); that he has a progeny (dhuriyyati - 18:50), that he was made of fire (7:12) which is described and elucidated elsewhere in the Quran as the constituent components of the Jinn's creative essence (15:27 and 55:15) [1]; that he would be destined for hell (7:18) which is a just requital for those condemned from mankind and the jinn (7:178) and many other verses which clearly alight the reader of interdependence between both mankind and the jinn (including Iblis).

Implicit statements of the Quran must be viewed in light of the 'explicit' statements of the Quran (3:7)

With regards the order of prostration to the angels in which Iblis was included by proxy is better understood in light of verses 34:40-41 where it is clear that God does not necessarily communicate directly with the Jinn but uses the angels as a proxy. From these verses it is clear that God knowing full well who the culprits were, nevertheless asked the angels instead.

"One Day He will gather them all together, and say to the angels, "Was it you that these men used to worship?" They will say, "Glory to Thee! our (tie) is with Thee - as Protector - not with them. Nay, but they worshipped the Jinns: most of them believed in them.""

It is quite possible that the angels are used as a proxy for communication as they are tasked with decrees (97:4) and governance (ranks 37:164-166, exalted assembly 37:8, guardians in life 13:11, in felicity 16:32, in punishment 74:31) of mankind and the Jinn. Note that hell (74:31) will be the abode of the condemned from both mankind and the Jinn (6:128, 11:119, 32:13)   

At no place in the Quran are we informed of the creative essence of the angels, whether they are light or otherwise, whether they have the capacity to refuse God's command outright with arrogance (istakbara 2:34) like Iblis (even though they may ask questions 2:30), whether they have any progeny or whether they have any gender (43:19) which is explicit for humankind (4:1) and implied for the Jinn (55:56).

Finally, The Quran clearly states in another verse that angels cannot be 'arrogant' (istakbara / takabbara). Please see verse 16:49. Yet, in another verse, the Quran also clearly states that Iblis was 'arrogant' (istakbara / takabbara). Please see 2:34. Therefore, Iblis simply could not have been angel before he became arrogant or after.

I hope that helps, God willing.


[1] The Quran describes the Jinn's creative essence as 'nare-sumun' (15:27) and 'mariji-min nar' (55:15). This is not literal fire. There is some semblance of fire but it is also 'sumun' which gives one a sense of ferocity, intensity and 'marij' which means confused, impaired, mixed and something which is unsteady.  It is a description used by the Quran to best describe to a 7th century Arab audience a substance which they may not be familiar with. Clearly this is not the same substance by which mankind was created (15:26).
Modify message

Also there is also an article which you can refer to : The Jinn

Hope this helps

Salaam ibn_a

I see from your article that the 114th you are counting is from Chapter 27:30

You said to me:

No it is not a mistake, with all due respect, but I think that you confound what is scholarly named as:
  "THE BASMALAH / البسمله "  with "BISMI  ALLAH / بسم الله "

 "THE BASMALAH / البسمله "   i.e       بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
has 19 letters and occurs 114 times in the Quran

But in 27:30 it is in the form of "BISMI  ALLAH / بسم الله " so this doesn't count towards your BASMALAH then?

General Discussions / Re: What's wrong with Quran 9:31?
« on: May 13, 2020, 12:12:19 AM »

No problem. I will just leave it be  :)

General Discussions / Re: What's wrong with Quran 9:31?
« on: May 10, 2020, 07:44:54 AM »
Salaam Lobotomize94

Would you like me to delete this entire thread for you?


Salaam ibn_a

You replied to me with the following:

No it is not a mistake, with all due respect, but I think that you confound what is scholarly named as:
  "THE BASMALAH / البسمله "  with "BISMI  ALLAH / بسم الله "

 "THE BASMALAH / البسمله "   i.e       بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
has 19 letters and occurs 114 times in the Quran

Can you please confirm to me that you consider that 113 'basmalahs' occur at the start of the surahs?

Can you therefore tell me where the other 'basmalah' that you refer to is, in order to get a total of 114?


Salaam Tausif,

I agree with the way you have understood the verse. The example you mentioned of prophet Moses (pbuh) is correct and it is an example of this 'partition/veil' because you are correct in that God cannot be seen directly.

Regarding your question about any prophet or messenger speaking to an angel that is not in human form, I only have 1 example of this regarding prophet Muhammed (pbuh) where he saw angel Gabriel in his true form and this is in Surah Najm (53:4 - 53:18)

4. It is but a revelation revealed.

5. Taught to him by the Extremely Powerful.

6. The one of vigor. He settled.

7. While he was at the highest horizon.

8. Then he came near, and hovered around.

9. He was within two bows’ length, or closer.

10. Then He revealed to His servant what He revealed.

11. The heart did not lie about what it saw.

12. Will you dispute with him concerning what he saw?

13. He saw him on another descent.

14. At the Lotus Tree of the Extremity.

15. Near which is the Garden of Repose.

16. As there covered the Lotus Tree what covered it.

17. The sight did not waver, nor did it exceed.

18. He saw some of the Great Signs of his Lord.

Salaam ibn_a

I noticed that your posts are mainly about numbering of verses etc in the Quran to show the number 19. There seems to be an obsession of showing the pattern of 19 using mathematical formulas in order to prove that it is a special number in relation to Quran 74:30. Do you not think that by doing this, a person would get side tracked instead of reading the Quran?

The meaning of the words should be reflected and upon that basis, someone can decide if they believe it to be God's word?

Also in your post about the numbers of 'Basmalah' there is a BIG MISTAKE which ruins the formula used to find 19. It says that 'The Basmalah has 19 letters and is repeated 114 times in the Quran 114 = 19 x6'

Bismillah OCCURS IN THE QURAN 115 TIMES, not 114 times

113 of those are at the start of the chapters (Surah Taubah has no Bismillah)
2 of those are found inside chapters. 1 Bismillah in Surah Hud and 1 Bismillah inside Surah Naml

Surah Hud
“He said, “Embark upon it. In the Name of God be its coursing and its mooring. Truly my Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.” (11:41)

Surah Naml
“Verily, it is from Solomon and verily it is, In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful.” (27:30)

So your 'Basmalah' formula is incorrect!


Women / Re: Husband still has to pay all charges related to family?
« on: February 06, 2020, 10:52:59 AM »

I think it is always a good idea especially in this day and age that potential spouses should have an idea of each others expectations in a marriage.

One of the aspects often overlooked are financial  arrangements.

Traditionally in Islam yes it is the husband's duty to maintain his wife but nowadays especially in the West, it is commonplace that Muslim women work before marriage.

Plus higher living costs in certain areas mean many work after marriage too to assist supporting their households.

I think that in the above scenario, a women should contribute at most, to half the living costs of the household.

If her husband is wealthy enough that the entire household can run on his salary then there are the following scenarios:

1) He doesn't want his wife to work then this is a perfectly valid standpoint and his right.

2) He may be happy for his wife to work but keep her money and contribute an amount towards certain luxuries etc.

3) His wife has the right under Islam that he should maintain her and she shouldn't have to work so he should not be asking her to.

So in summary, I think that if 2 incomes are required to run the household then the wife  should assist her husband and contribute at the most, half her salary to the household.

If she wants to work and there is no financial reason to, then she needs to obtain her husband's permission to do so.

General Discussions / Re: Can a person donate his parts before he expired ?
« on: December 07, 2019, 02:23:24 AM »
Salaam Beyond Tradition,

From your post I think I understand it to mean donating your organs before death. That will be also helping some one in need.

But realistically you don't really donate an eye do you when you are alive. The only organ you can donate in this scenario is your kidney.

Eyes, liver, heart etc would be something donated post death. In that case the body is sewn up where the organs were removed so the relatives of the deceased would not see anything else. Eyes being removed shouldn't distress loved ones because your eyelids are closed when you die.

Again I think it's purely a personal choice and I don't think that it is something forbidden because the Quran is silent on the matter.

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