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1

General Discussions / we can have rabbs beside Allah

« on: February 23, 2013, 10:48:25 PM »

Salam all

before yesterday i was sure, that for a believer in Allah it is not permissible to call anybody beside Allah as Rabb.
After a discussion with my husband who says that this is normal and we can see this fact also in the Arabic language , the sustainer or provider for the household is transcribed with the same word...
I read also trough the Sura Youssuf and there we can see this very good:


translation Muhammad Asad

12:36 NOW two young men happened to go to prison at the same time as Joseph. One of them said: "Behold, I saw myself [in a dream] pressing wine." And the other said: "Behold, I saw myself [in a dream] carrying bread on my head, and birds were eating thereof." [And both entreated Joseph:] "Let us know the real meaning of this! Verily, we see that thou art one of those who know well [how to interpret dreams].
12:37 [Joseph] answered: "Ere there comes unto you the meal which you are [daily] fed, I shall have informed you of the real meaning of your dreams,37 [so that you might know what is to come] before it comes unto you: for this is [part] of the knowledge which my Sustainer has imparted to me. "Behold, I have left behind me the ways of people who do not believe in God,and who persistently refuse to acknowledge the truth of the life to come;

12:38 and I follow the creed of my forefathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It is not conceivable that we should [be allowed to] ascribe divinity to aught beside God: this is [an outcome] of God's bounty unto us and unto all mankind39 -but most people are ungrateful.
12:39 "O my companions in imprisonment! Which is more reasonable:40 [belief in the existence of numerous divine] lords, each of them different from the other"41 -or [in] the One God, who holds absolute sway over all that exists?
12:40 "All that you worship instead of God is nothing but [empty] names which you have invented42 - you and your forefathers- [and] for which God has bestowed no warrant from on high. Judgment [as to what is right and what is wrong] rests with God alone-[and] He has ordained that you should worship nought but Him: this is the [one] ever-true faith; but most people know it not43
12:41 "[And now,] O my companions in imprisonment, [I shall tell you the meaning of your dreams:] as for one of you two, he will [again] give his lord [the King] wine to drink; but as for the other, he will be crucified, and birds will eat off his head. [But whatever be your future,] the matter on which you have asked me to enlighten you has been decided [by God]."
12:42 And [thereupon Joseph] said unto the one of the two whom he considered saved: "Mention me unto thy lord [when thou art free]!" But Satan caused him to forget to mention [Joseph] to his lord, and so he remained in prison a few [more] years.
12:43 AND [one day] the King said:44 Behold, I saw [in a dream] seven fat cows being devoured by seven emaciated ones, and seven green ears [of wheat] next to [seven] others that were withered. O you nobles! Enlighten me about [the meaning of] my dream, if you are able to interpret dreams!"
12:44 They answered: " [This is one of] the most involved and confusing of dreams,45 and we have no deep knowledge of the real meaning of dreams."
12:45 At that, the one of the two [erstwhile prisoners] who had been saved, and [who suddenly] remembered [Joseph] after all that time,46 spoke [thus]: "It is I who can inform you of the real meaning of this [dream]; so let me go [in search of it]."

Note: all the bold words are RABB in the Arabic

Question:

1. 12:39"O my fellow inmates, are various lords better, or God, the One, the Omniscient?"   here we see
 يصىحبى السجن [b]ءارباب[/b] متفرقون خير ام الله الوحد القهار
is this the plural from Rabb?? i asked my son, he said it is the plural from Rabib?

2. then we can conclude, that the word Rabb can be used for Sustainer / Provider/(teacher) and this is permissible? And that is only not permissible to take an ILAHI other as the One (ALLAH) ?

thank you all for help peace

2

General Discussions / 80.11

« on: February 23, 2013, 12:03:18 AM »

Salam
i read a little bit about the compilation from the quran and i struggled over the verse 80.11


kallā
Nay!      AVR – aversion particle
حرف ردع
(80:11:2)
innahā
Indeed, it      ACC – accusative particle
PRON – 3rd person feminine singular object pronoun
حرف نصب و«ها» ضمير متصل في محل نصب اسم «ان»
(80:11:3)
tadhkiratun
(is) a reminder,      N – nominative feminine indefinite (form II) verbal noun
اسم مرفوع
(80:12:1)
faman
So whosoever      REM – prefixed resumption particle
COND – conditional noun
الفاء استئنافية
اسم شرط
(80:12:2)
shāa
wills      V – 3rd person masculine singular perfect verb
فعل ماض
(80:12:3)
dhakarahu
may remember it.      V – 3rd person masculine singular perfect verb
PRON – 3rd person masculine singular object pronoun
فعل ماض والهاء ضمير متصل في محل نصب مفعول به
(80:13:1)
fī
In      P – preposition
حرف جر
(80:13:2)
ṣuḥufin
sheets      N – genitive feminine plural indefinite noun
اسم مجرور
(80:13:3)
mukarramatin
honored,      ADJ – genitive feminine plural indefinite (form II) passive participle
صفة مجرورة
(80:14:1)
marfūʿatin
Exalted,      ADJ – genitive feminine plural indefinite passive participle
صفة مجرورة
(80:14:2)
muṭahharatin
purified,      ADJ – genitive feminine plural indefinite (form II) passive participle

(source: corpusquran.com)

we found in 80.11: inna- HA Indeed, it
and after    80.12 : dhakarahu may remember it.
in 56.73 we see the word jalnaha with the Pron. Ha (fem.)which refers to the fire.

the first pronom is feminine and the second masculine the two translated with it (as reverse to the Quran?)
After we found the term suhufi- the sheets; they are plural too and feminine
those sheets were written from  scribes Honorable and virtuous.( Kiramin bararatin)80:16

1 question: who are those scribes?? the interpretation from Joseph point to companions from the Prophet but maybe they are the angles? Because the sheets they are purified, honored and exalted- points to the kitab maknun in 56.78.
and in 56.79  La yamassuhu illa almutahharoona which none but the pure [of heart] can touch:
(but in Sura al A'la we found the suhufi from Ibrahim wa Musa-??)

the Quran is mentioned in 56.77  this Qur'an is a Noble Monograph. Innahu laqur-anun kareemun
the Quran inna-hu (masculine) is IN the kitabun maknun 56.78 which can only touches the pure ones.= the angles?

2.question: the sheets are from the kitabun maknun by Allah or on earth?
3. question:the innaha in 80.11 revers to what?

Conclusion;
- Quran in not the same as al kitab or al kitab maknun
-the Suhufi are the written revelations from God- the Quran is the purified form from the old sheets which were written from noble scribes?

I hope the post is not to much confusing.. always hard to write my thoughts in English

peace

3

General Discussions / why lailatul siam

« on: February 21, 2013, 01:56:09 AM »

Salam
i have a question about Sura al baqara. We found there the instruction for  fasting. We read in 2.187  uhilla lakum lailata assiyam rafathu ila nisaaikum...
lailata is in singular- how this is possible, when the shahr ramadan contents many nights? Or is this 'normal' arabic grammatic??
thanks for clarification
peace

4

General Discussions / some Questions about alRahman

« on: February 21, 2013, 01:51:02 AM »

Salam
i read an interesting question in another forum- please anybody can bring light in the dark?? thanks!

Salaam,

I have a question about Sura AlRahmaan. InshaAllah someone can help me out.
Please take a looki at the next verses.

55:62  وَمِن دُونِهِمَا جَنَّتَانِ
55:63  فَبِأَيِّ آلَاءِ رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ
55:64  مُدْهَامَّتَانِ
55:65  فَبِأَيِّ آلَاءِ رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ
55:66  فِيهِمَا عَيْنَانِ نَضَّاخَتَانِ
55:67  فَبِأَيِّ آلَاءِ رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ
55:68  فِيهِمَا فَاكِهَةٌ وَنَخْلٌ وَرُمَّانٌ
55:69  فَبِأَيِّ آلَاءِ رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ
55:70 فِيهِنَّ خَيْرَاتٌ حِسَانٌ

The question is, why this switch 
Anyone any ideas.

Salaam,

There are still some questions.

55:68 فِيهِمَا فَاكِهَةٌ وَنَخْلٌ وَرُمَّانٌ

According to Corpus Quran we have the following:

 فَاكِهَةٌ   : nominative feminine indefinite noun
وَنَخْلٌ    : nominative masculine  indefinite noun
وَرُمَّانٌ    : nominative masculine  indefinite noun



55:70 فِيهِنَّ خَيْرَاتٌ حِسَانٌ

According to Corpus Quran

فِيهِنَّ    : third person feminine plural  object pronoun



If فِيهِنَّ    is referring to all 3 of them how is this possible? Can someone please give me similair usage like this please.


At the moment I have two explanations:
1) فِيهِنَّ    is only referring to  فَاكِهَةٌ    . As that is the only feminine word.
2) Who gave the genders to words? And how did they derived them? With other words, are وَنَخْلٌ     and وَرُمَّانٌ     in The Quran masculine?


I came across this verse:
26:148  وَزُرُوعٍ وَنَخْلٍ طَلْعُهَا هَضِيمٌ

According to Corpus Quran
وَنَخْلٍ   :  genitive masculine  indefinite noun
طَلْعُهَا   :  third person feminine  singular possessive pronoun

How is this possible?
It looks to me without question that َنَخْلٍ   is feminine, unless someone comes with something I overlooked.

If no one can come up with an explanation then I am afraid that we have to investigate every word of The Quran for it's gender.

Last question, to what is فِيهِنَّ   referring in 55:56?
55:56 فِيهِنَّ قَاصِرَاتُ الطَّرْفِ لَمْ يَطْمِثْهُنَّ إِنْسٌ قَبْلَهُمْ وَلَا جَانٌّ

Salaam and thanks to anyone who tries to help.

Salam and peace

5

General Discussions / Daughters of Lut

« on: November 02, 2012, 07:53:38 PM »

Salam all

i have a question about 11.78


The Monotheist Group   
11:78 And his people came rushing towards him, and before it they were committing sin, he said: "My people, these are my daughters, they are purer for you, so be aware of God and do not disgrace me regarding my guests. Is there no sane man among you?"
Muhammad Asad   
11:78 And his people came running to him, impelled towards his house [by their desire]:108 for they had ever been wont to commit [such], abominations. Said [Lot]: "O my people! [Take instead] these daughters of mine: they are purer for you [than men]!109 Be, then, conscious of God, and disgrace me not by [assaulting] my guests. Is there not among you even one right-minded man?"
Rashad Khalifa   
11:78 His people came rushing; they had grown accustomed to their sinful acts. He said, "O my people, it would be purer for you, if you take my daughters instead. You shall reverence GOD; do not embarrass me with my guests. Have you not one reasonable man among you?"
Shabbir Ahmed   11:78
 And the most iniquitous among his people came rushing to Lot. (They wanted the visiting messengers to approve their behavior.) Lot said, "O My people! Your wives, who are like my daughters, are permitted for you. Be mindful of God, and do not humiliate me in the presence of my guests. Is there not a single upright man among you?"
Transliteration   11:78
Wajaahu qawmuhu yuhraAAoona ilayhiwamin qablu kanoo yaAAmaloona alssayyi-ati qalaya qawmi haola-i banatee hunna atharulakum faittaqoo Allaha wala tukhzooni fee dayfeealaysa minkum rajulun rasheedun
   
11:78 وجاءه قومه يهرعون اليه ومن قبل كانوا يعملون السيات قال يقوم هولاء بناتى هن اطهر لكم فاتقوا الله ولا تخزون فى ضيفى اليس منكم رجل رشيد

 First, it does not mean how often translated, "here you have my daughters," but "these are my daughters." Either way is implied mostly so would the daughters offered to the aggressors. The second part is accordingly commonly translated as "they are purer for you." But why should the messenger of God offer his daughters to the wrongdoer with the words: they are purer for you??

So, what is the correct translation? And what God want tell us with this story??

the example from Lot it is not about homosexuality - it is about open fahischa - those men were so little gay as you and I. those men  didn't noticed the women  because the women for them was nothing -lower creatures
Homosexuality is a matter between two individuals who love each other.(coupled with the feeling, to not  find the own gender attractive)
 The described Sex-orgies in  this Sura has to do with sexual perversion as we see it today everywhere (sex without a relationship, sex with animals, with children, with men and women, etc.)

So i think God point to the fact, that
1. Love and respect must be an integral part of Sexuality - and the Sexuality only as an integral part  between two human who love each others. (and should be married)
2. To be married and have children is the normal
3. The fahischa from Lots people is less the actual homosexuality, but rather the unbridled perversion and not respectful of women (who God clearly has created as biological mothers and essential partners for men )

thanks for reading and your thoughts??
peace

6

General Discussions / high ground where

« on: November 02, 2012, 07:19:47 PM »

Salam all
i see this question in an other forum -and i wish to ask you here:

23:50 And We made the son of Mary and his mother a sign, and We gave them refuge on high ground, a place for resting and with a flowing stream.

In the above verse by "high ground, a place for resting and with a flowing stream."  does God mean  a particular location on earth or paradise?

Muhammad Asad's end note interpret this as paradise

Muhammad Asad - End Note 26 (23:50)
I.e., in paradise. The expression (ma'in) signifies "unsullied springs" or "running waters" (Ibn Abbas, as quoted by Tabari; also Lisan al-Arab and Taj al-'Arus), and thus symbolizes the spiritual purity associated with the concept of paradise, the "gardens through which running waters flow".


Sabbir Ahmed's translaton interpret as Can,aan where Jesus and his mother migrated after attempted crucifixion. Which means Jesus was still alive after crucifixion ?

23:50 And We made the son of Mary and his mother a symbol (of Our grace). We gave them abode on a land abounding in hills, affording rest and security and fresh water springs (as they migrated from Can'aan after the attempted crucifixion).


Ahmadiyya sect(A movement started by Mirza Gulam Ahmad of Qadian) interpret this as  Kashmir in india where Jesus migrated after surviving the crucifixion according

Also I came across some documentary which try to prove that Jesus might have migrated to Kashmir in india after surviving crucifixion.

Or was it the birthplace of Jesus described in Sura Marjam where God Made "The Son of Mary and his Mother" a sign ?
I tend to the first statement of M.Asad. What are your thoughts on this?
Salam

7

Islamic Duties / no shirk in worship

« on: November 02, 2012, 02:24:12 AM »

Salam

The Arabic word ‘Mushrikeeen’ means polytheists.  It comes from the root word ‘SH-R-K’ which is the practice of attributing other partners in the worship of the one true God of the universe. Calling upon others along with God or attributing intermediaries, intercessors, companions, God powers and characteristics which are only reserved for the Almighty Lord to any other being, is also tantamount to worship.

I have long been repeatedly stumbled over the same issue,  that would be: there is indeed Shirk in Worship[?
After careful study I conclude that there is no Shirk in Worship.
The Shirk describes itself as  give God a partner or wife or children, to ascribe people or Ginn  Divine attributes.
Therefore, it is not Shirk to make statues, as we can see from the example of Solomon. Therefore it is not Shirk, to bow in front of a cube, which is the symbol of a house of GOD (as churchs or mosques generally) ,(of course, in the knowledge that God dwells not in that cube.

So it is not Shirk, when Muslims raise their prophet into a high rank, they do not deify him as GOD . But clearly shirk if it is assumed that Jesus= God  or Mary= Mother of God.  (this against the clear statement from Sura al Ihlas) Equally shirk if we assume that there are a multitude of gods,and  one of them is the boss (because then we implies, that all gods can create or are has power over all living things. etc.) But not shirk if you take a good believer as 'saint' -certainly not very favorable compared to God, but not shirk
what is your thoughts? thank you and salam

8

General Discussions / 17.59

« on: July 05, 2012, 08:00:54 PM »

Salam
i see this question in an other forum and i like to know your thoughts about it:

Verse 17:59

وَمَا مَنَعَنَا أَن نُّرْسِلَ بِالْآيَاتِ إِلَّا أَن كَذَّبَ بِهَا الْأَوَّلُونَ

Transliteration : Wa ma manaAAana an nursila bialayati illa an kaththaba biha alawwaloona, …

Yusuf Ali: And We refrain from sending the signs, only because the men of former generations treated them as false.

This  translation implies that God initially sent Signs / miracles to convert people and had an intention to send more signs but He disappointed to learn that His signs did not work as expected. So, He stopped sending them.

Now see translation below:

Reformist Group: The rejection of previous people did not stop Us from sending the signs. 

Endnote (Page: 206): Traditional translations render the meaning of "Ma" as a relative pronoun rather than a negative particle, "What stopped us from sending…."
Source: https://www.irshadmanji.com/PDFS/ReformistTranslation.pdf

Now look at word to word translation:
http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=17&verse=59

peace and thank you  for the help

9

General Discussions / masjid =act of worship?

« on: May 29, 2012, 01:46:03 AM »

Salam
7:31
Asad translated here  the word masjid as act of worship (not as a place of worship / sujud).
How does he get it? To my knowledge this is the only time he translated Masjid with an act of worship. why? and possible?
To me it seems illogical, if we look at the continuation of the Aya: ... and eat and drink ... For me, it is logical to be eaten and drunk in a mosque in his original function, but when translated masjid as an act of worship, then  it makes no sense to me. Thanks for your help.
salam

10

General Discussions / four birds or four parts of the bird

« on: May 29, 2012, 01:37:34 AM »

Salam 
I do not know if brother Joseph has written an article on this question, but I do not find it.
in 2.260 we learn the story of Abraham and the proof of the resurrection from the death. Now my question:  is the story about four birds (interpretation from asad) or is it one bird and a quarter of this bird, which was distributed to the mountains?
means it is not in the original Arabic
 .. 'ala kulli gabalin minhunna dschuzan? .. "
... on every mountain a  part of them"...?
Thanks for the explanation.Peace

11

General Discussions / Sura al Qasas

« on: May 27, 2012, 11:22:38 PM »

Salam
another question about the same Sura al Qasas. We see 28.07 - 28.50 only speaks of the story of Moses.

44.   And you were not on the western side when We revealed to Musa the commandment, and you were not among the witnesses;
   
45.   But We raised up generations, then life became prolonged to them; and you were not dwelling among the people of Madyan, reciting to them Our communications, but We were the senders.
   
46.   And you were not on this side of the mountain when We called, but a mercy from your Lord that you may warn a people to whom no warner came before you, that they may be mindful.

 in 28. 28 Prophet Muhammad is mentioned 28.44 that he was not at thewestern side (from the TUR?), and then directly that he was not with the people of Madyan, and the messages they would have brought about. In the Tafseer of Asad is declared that this is a note to Shuaib, but is this  really the case?The whole Sura is about Musa. And Musa  has lived in Madyan. Would mean that Muses had preached in Madyan too? Thanks for your help.SAlam

12

General Discussions / Pharao The god

« on: May 27, 2012, 09:39:55 PM »

salam
 when we read 28.38, we see that Pharaoh says that moses should have no other god beside himself . We know that the Egyptians worshiped several gods. Can this be so mean that he meant it  he as the highest God?but  he said,  "a different God than me," does not imply any other God.?thanks for clarification. Peace

13

General Discussions / 27.21

« on: May 24, 2012, 05:42:09 AM »

Salam all together
27.20

And he reviewed the birds, to see the hoopoe — which would locate water beneath the ground and indicate its location by pecking at it, whereupon the devils would extract it, for Solomon required it for when he prayed; but he could not see him — then he said, ‘Why is it that I do not see the hoopoe?, in other words, is there something preventing me from seeing him? Or is he among the absent?, and so I cannot see him because he is absent?’ And when he became certain [of the hoopoe’s absence],

27.21
He said, ‘Assuredly I will chastise him with a severe chastisement, by having [all] his feathers as well as his tail plucked and leaving him out in the sun, where he would not be able to escape from reptiles, or I will slaughter him, by slitting his throat, unless he brings me (read la-ya’tiyannī or la-ya’tinannī) a clear warrant’, plain manifest proof for his [having a valid] excuse.

Tafsir al-Jalalayn, trans. Feras Hamza
© 2012 Royal Aal al-Bayt Institute for Islamic Thought, Amman, Jordan (http://www.aalalbayt.org) ® All Rights Reserved

I have trouble  with the interpretation that a prophet of God, who posses the highest wisdom of Allah, he will punish a bird, because he is absent or late,  or slaughter ( dhb kill, to sacrifice ) it. Also, if we looks  the previous verse also we  note that with the ants Prophet Solomon appears in a different light- namely as an admirer of nature and respect it, including the animal world. Are there any other point of view, it is perhaps a wrong translation? Asad said in his comment of a pure, idiomatic, twist, but this convinced me not.
Thanks for your suggestions Peace

14

General Discussions / touch or grasp the Quran?

« on: April 13, 2012, 05:08:23 PM »

Salam


http://quransmessage.com/articles/wudu%20before%20touching%20the%20quran%20FM3.htm

after I read the article, I now have two questions. The first is that it existes also another interpretation or  explanation of the aya, which says that  only the pure * godly, believing in the Koran can *
to gather , record,. to capture,to embrace, to seize,to conceive ,to apprehend ,to comprehend,to acquire ,to appreciate
to grasp the Qurans message.

what do you think?

second question is specifically for the following statement?

 

No doubt, the oral and the written transmissions have both played a crucial role in the Quran's preservation. This is also vouched by the following Quranic verse which separates the reminder in its oral form (dhikr) from the Quran in its book or scriptural form indicating the coexistence of the two transmissions working in tandem.
 
036:069
"We have not instructed the (Prophet) in poetry, nor is it befitting for him. This is no less than a reminder (Arabic: Dhikr) and (Arabic: wa) a Quran making things clear"

The verse says not al quran, but only Quran * reading * recited*, it is not a link for the written  Kitab .
we see in the Quran many times the term Al Quran for the Quran (our Book), but i think quran is more in general and seems to point here for the revelation and this was oral. Allah says also many times Al Kitab why , if this a mark for the transmission (oral and written) not here also?
thanks for clarification. salam and peace

15

General Discussions / 57.25

« on: March 09, 2012, 04:24:01 AM »

Salamu Aleikum
 
ihave a Question on the verse 57.25
According to the article by Joseph are all prophets are messengers,  but not all messengers are prophets, since the latter have received a written scripture, but the former only confirm it.
But how does this verse fit into this picture?

57.25 We have sent our messengers with clear proofs, and we sent down with them the book and the balance, that the people may uphold justice. we sent down the iron Wherein there is great strength, and many benefits for the people. So that God would distinguish those who would support him and his messengers on acknowledgement. God is Powerful, Noble.
Here it seems clear that God sends His Messengers with proofs, Books and Hukma.This would say, that messengers get a script.
 
Salam