Messages

1

Discussions / Re: Bible, the Book in the Qur'an?

« on: January 15, 2014, 08:33:34 AM »

As-salaam.

If "the Book" was not the current Bible that these trinitarian / Mary worshipers held to, the problem is there is no evidence of the streams of Christianity in Arabia holding to any other scripture. The Bible was canonised centuries before the Prophet Muhammad. It would be good to hear from Br. Joseph on this........

And why would there be no other scripture? There is the Torah and the Gospel according to the Holy Qur'an. As I have tried to explain my brother that not because a canonized bible in Syriac or Arabic existed that does not automatically mean that it is the BOOK as mentioned in the Holy Qur'an. We have to consider that the current bible in circulation maybe is just another translation or version of a bible that may have been approved or accepted by Synod of Hippo Regius which does not include the Book of Revelations (I think the Book of Revelations was added at a later time, somewhere in the 5th or 6th Century).

Now we also have to consider the logistics, how many of Syriac or Arabic bibles could really be printed with very limited resources and difficulty of making a copy? The BOOK could be a metaphor or maybe only a reference to people who believe in the teachings of the prophets. Another thing that I noticed while I am composing this is that the BOOK as menitioned in the Holy Qur'an is singular while BIBLE, as it was not mentioned as "bible", is derived from word Biblia, a Koine Greek meaning the BookS (many books). 

The Biblia which includes the scriptures of Matthew, Luke, Mark and John could be or probably the individual book that is being mentioned. Matthew spread the Gospel of Jesus, as he heard him preach, to his followers so as Mark and John and of course Paul in his own right with direct revelations "from" Jesus. I may consider that those following Matthew are Christians and maybe considered as people of the Book too, as well as those following Luke, Mark, John and even Thomas and Judas.

Yes, I would love to hear the opinion of Brother Joseph on this issue.


Sincerely,

Salahuddin

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Discussions / Re: Bible, the Book in the Qur'an?

« on: January 10, 2014, 03:44:12 AM »

This is my point, despite the fact the THERE IS A CANONIZED BIBLE before the Prophet Muhammad (saws) that does NOT automatically mean it is the BOOK as mentioned in the Holy Qur'an. The Jews (of Judaism) do not even recognize the Gospel of Jesus more of the EPISTLES and REVELATION. The word BOOK, particulary in the Holy Qur'an, and the Bible are not interchangeable in my opinion.

On the canonized bible prior to our prophet Muhammad (pbuh), please allow me to use an analogy or argument.

There now exist STEALTH bombers, Apache Helicopters and Satellites as a UNIT/package (true and its cost some countries BILLIONS of Dollars to develop and manufacture these machines)

Stealth, Apaches and satellites, as a unit or package, are used for wars (true as these are used to support each other)

The Philippines is at war (true, against the Abu Sayaffs and New People's Army)

So, the Philippines is using Stealth, Apaches and satellites. (This is false, Philippines have a commercial satellites, and some outdated helicopters.) While these stealth, Apaches, and satellites, as a UNIT (canonized), do exist and used in SOME wars, it does NOT AUTOMATICALLY being used by the Philippines (Muhammad - pbuh) but instead a satellite/s or Sikorsky helicopters only. I could not think of a better example at this minute.


I have read the link* you provided and it is very enlightening and it further supported my personal view in the Tawheed. On your "The Injil and Torah was held by the People of the Book; the two cannot be separated" I doubt if the Jews are keeping either the Gospel or the Bible. The BOOK could mean the Torah, Gospel or Psalms or these three but NOT the bible. In other words there is a Torah, Gospel, and the Bible.

Thank you for your patience.


Salaam,


Salahuddin

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Discussions / Re: Bible, the Book in the Qur'an?

« on: January 09, 2014, 01:23:35 AM »

Thanks Daniel for sharing. I've been quite busy these past few weeks.

While the Holy Qur'an mentioned the Book I find it not SAFE to quickly assume that this refers to the BIBLE as we have today, regardless of the version (68/72/73 books versions). We have to make note that the Holy Qur'an mentioned Torah and Gospel BUT never about EPISTLES and other books, as INCLUDED or EXCLUDED in current BIBLE VERSIONS.

Given the fact that there is a 68 or 72 book bible before the prophet Muhammad, this does not immediately mean it was the prototype of the bible as we know today. Again the Holy Qur'an mentioned about the Torah and Gospel, not the epistles and similar books. I would still be firm in my stand that this is and never in reference to the bible (62/72/73 books versions).


Sincerely,

Salahuddin

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Discussions / Re: Bible, the Book in the Qur'an?

« on: December 28, 2013, 07:42:28 AM »

As-salaamun alaikum.

Thank you for the output Daniel and I appreciate sharing your views. The point I am driving out is that responses are indirectly switched, almost unnoticeable at times, using ayats that refers to the Torah or Injil when an issue is about the veracity or authority of the bible. I don't see where it was explicitly mentioned that the bible is not ever mentioned in the Holy Qur'an.

As you may agree there are two dogmatic versions of the bible, the Catholic's and the Protestant's. I believe that the Torah and Injil does not have to be in a written form or else it could have been transcribed at the very time the prophets survived. Early Christianity existed even without these manuscripts (bible). The Gospel of Issa have spread out to the gentiles and people have benefited from it. This gain is when these gentiles accepted the Oneness of God - Yahweh, which I feel is the very objective of the gospel. These people, the gentiles, even ended up worshiping inside synagogues.

To reiterate my point early followers of Issa don't have a "bible" but the Gospel of Jesus passed through to the word of mouth. The book does not always have to be in a paperbound in my humble opinion.

Sincerely,

Salahuddin

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Discussions / Bible, the Book in the Qur'an?

« on: December 26, 2013, 05:40:42 AM »

As-salaamun Alaikum brother:

I've been reading some commentaries for awhile and have not stumbled any article where it is clearly defined what the bible actually is in light of the Holy Qur'an. There is no mention of "bible" in Holy Qur'an. While the Holy Qur'an mentioned "of the book", it may refer to the Torah, Psalm and Gospel which was clearly mentioned in some ayats. It is claimed that the bible has, in it, the Torah, Psalm and Gospel but I feel that this is not what the Holy Qur'an is referring to.

The bible has two major versions, not in terms of translations, but of doctrines. The Roman/Orthodox Catholic Churches have 72/73 books while the Protestant Churches have about 66 books for their bibles. I also think that the bible today in general is similar to a ahadith only, a narrative of third person. Please share your opinion in regards to my common understanding.


Sincerely,

6

Discussions / Thank you...

« on: November 29, 2013, 04:05:28 PM »

As- Salaamun alaikum. My name is Salahuddin. I accepted the Oneness of God (swt) and Prophethood of Muhammad (pbuh) over three years ago. I was a Roman Catholic. l reverted to Islam, the very least of my choice, in fact not even included any of many religions that I could think of.

Before I joined this forum or site, I made some readings here and found and learned so much. A few of it are already been what I thought it was like the pork stuff. Anyway bear with me as I have tons of questions for you here:-) Just kidding, I guess reading all the posts here will keep me quite busy! Thank you!