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46

General Discussions / Understanding Quran[9:123]

« on: October 26, 2015, 05:50:37 AM »

Salaam

Quran[9:123]^[1] is often used to justify attacks on non-Muslim neighborhoods. Although the context and subject of Surah 9^[2] is clear, but I'm having a hard time to find a good interpretation and context in order to reconcile it with other verses such as Quran[60:9]^[3]. For any share of thought I will be grateful. Thanks in advance.




^[1]  يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا قَاتِلُوا الَّذِينَ يَلُونَكُم مِّنَ الْكُفَّارِ وَلْيَجِدُوا فِيكُمْ غِلْظَةً ۚ وَاعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ مَعَ الْمُتَّقِينَ
^[2]  Understanding Surah Tauba (Chapter 9) and the Infamous 'Killing': http://quransmessage.com/articles/surah%20tauba%20FM3.htm
^[3]  لَّا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَلَمْ يُخْرِجُوكُم مِّن دِيَارِكُمْ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمْ وَتُقْسِطُوا إِلَيْهِمْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُقْسِطِينَ

47

Discussions / Re: Mutwatir Hadees

« on: October 23, 2015, 07:12:42 AM »

If the Ahadith are later documents and compiled centuries later, then how is it possible to have any eye witnesses at the time of compiling? For example, if I see an event and later on it is required from me to give my testimony about that particular event, I can't send anyone else as proxy I must go myself and say what I saw.

None of the Hadith compilers heard any Hadith from the original eyewitnesses, there were a lot of proxies in between.

48

General Discussions / Re: Resurrection from grave

« on: October 01, 2015, 04:23:22 AM »

Thanks for the link to the thread.

Brother Joseph said:

"Now with regards the other implicit verses that you have mentioned, they have a context. It is important to remember that the Quran in these instances was speaking to an audience that questioned resurrection outright. They could not believe / were not prepared to believe that once someone had died and become dust and bones that they could be resurrected again, ultimately questioning God's power over His creation. It was in this specific remit, that the response was given that God had the ability to recreate humans, even down to their very fingertips, if He so willed. (75:3-4)"

The key points in above quote are "implicit verses" and "God's ability to recreate".

Consider Quran(22:7), I totally agree with "God's ability to recreate" because of the context of that verse, but the verse is no implicit, it's quite explicit.

(22:7)
"And that the Hour is coming - no doubt about it - and that God will resurrect those in the graves.".

49

General Discussions / Resurrection from grave

« on: September 26, 2015, 03:10:06 AM »

Salaam All

I've found a possible contradiction and an indescribable passage. If any member want to share his/her idea regarding this issue, I will appreciate.

The possible contradiction:

• God will create us in a new creation and new form¹.
• God will assemble our bones² and will repair us, That is, God will repair the rotten bones, in other words, we will rise from graves repaired³.

Question: Is there a new creation in new unknown form with new materials or repair of current body with current materials?

The indescribable passage: (Main topic)

     If God is going to Resurrect us from graves, and recreate us similar to Quran(2:259)⁴, then what about those who don't have any grave, those who are burned, eaten by animals, old graves which maybe their bones turned into grass and fruits by natural processes and directly or indirectly consumed constantly by other humans and in the result their bones are shared among different people of different generations.

Question: Can anyone describe this?

Peace and regards.

Note: I don't mean any critics nor want to debate.

¹ (56:60-61) - نَحْنُ قَدَّرْنَا بَيْنَكُمُ الْمَوْتَ وَمَا نَحْنُ بِمَسْبُوقِينَ | عَلَىٰ أَن نُّبَدِّلَ أَمْثَالَكُمْ وَنُنشِئَكُمْ فِي مَا لَا تَعْلَمُونَ
² (75:3) - أَيَحْسَبُ الْإِنسَانُ أَلَّن نَّجْمَعَ عِظَامَهُ
³ (22:7) - وَأَنَّ السَّاعَةَ آتِيَةٌ لَّا رَيْبَ فِيهَا وَأَنَّ اللَّهَ يَبْعَثُ مَن فِي الْقُبُورِ
⁴ (2:259) - أَوْ كَالَّذِي مَرَّ عَلَىٰ قَرْيَةٍ وَهِيَ خَاوِيَةٌ عَلَىٰ عُرُوشِهَا قَالَ أَنَّىٰ يُحْيِي هَٰذِهِ اللَّهُ بَعْدَ مَوْتِهَا ۖ فَأَمَاتَهُ اللَّهُ مِائَةَ عَامٍ ثُمَّ بَعَثَهُ ۖ قَالَ كَمْ لَبِثْتَ ۖ قَالَ لَبِثْتُ يَوْمًا أَوْ بَعْضَ يَوْمٍ ۖ قَالَ بَل لَّبِثْتَ مِائَةَ عَامٍ فَانظُرْ إِلَىٰ طَعَامِكَ وَشَرَابِكَ لَمْ يَتَسَنَّهْ ۖ وَانظُرْ إِلَىٰ حِمَارِكَ وَلِنَجْعَلَكَ آيَةً لِّلنَّاسِ ۖ وَانظُرْ إِلَى الْعِظَامِ كَيْفَ نُنشِزُهَا ثُمَّ نَكْسُوهَا لَحْمًا ۚ فَلَمَّا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُ قَالَ أَعْلَمُ أَنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

50

General Discussions / Re: Evolution

« on: September 24, 2015, 03:49:21 AM »

Here is the argument:

Premise 1: If X and Y had the same method of creation, then the method X was created is identical to the method Y was created
Premise 2: X and Y had the same method of creation
Conclusion 1: Therefore, X and Y were created using identical methods
Premise 3: Method Z (slow process of creation in the womb) was used to create Y
Conclusion 2: Method Z was also used to create X

X= Would be Adam in the above argument
Y= Would be Jesus in the above argument
Z=Would be the method of creating from Dust, saying "Be" and allowing a slow process in the womb for the X and Y to develop.

This makes sense perfectly.

51

General Discussions / Re: Evolution

« on: September 23, 2015, 02:31:04 AM »

You said:

I don't think this verse is a counter argument against creationism. I think it is a counter argument to the divinity of Jesus.

That is exactly my point in the first portion of my reply (to Joseph).

You said:

But is has nothing to do with whether or not they have biological fathers/mothers or not. Rather, it is to say that Adam And Jesus were both created by God's command out of earthly materials. How can Jesus be God if he is like Adam in that he was commanded to exist by God and made of earthly materials?

I think you're messing a very important point here, this statement is directed to Christians and the main audience of this verse are Christians and Christians do not believe that Adam was a born human being, rather they believe Adam was created instantly by God in one day. If you show this verse to any Evangelist Christian the only possible thing that would come to in his/her mind would be birth without father and mother. That is why I asked this question in the first place.

52

General Discussions / Re: Evolution

« on: September 18, 2015, 08:29:35 AM »

Thanks for your reply. I had a look at your reply on Evolution - Did Adam Evolve from a Different Species? and also other brothers in this forum, but unfortunately it does not cover my point.

My main points are in green.

Since Quran[3:59] is a continuation of story of Jesus/Isa (pbuh), I understand that verse as a counter argument in order to debunk/destroy one of the core argument of Christianity, otherwise it would be out of its context.

Christians argument:

• Since Jesus/Isa did not have a biological father, therefore Jesus/Isa is Son of God.
• Since Jesus/Isa is Son of God, therefore Jesus/Isa is God.

Quran's counter argument:

• Since Adam did not have a biological father and a biological mother, therefore Adam deserve more to be Son of God than Jesus/Isa.
• Since Adam is not considered and is not Son of God, therefore Adam is not considered and is not God according to Christian theology.
• Because Adam is not God, therefore the same rule applies to Jesus/Isa and Jesus/Isa is not God.

Believe in evolution suggests that Adam and his spouse both had biological (Primates, Homo sapiens, whatever) parents (mother and father) and unlike Jesus a living male was involved in the creation of Adam, thus it makes the analogy flawed.


Dear Lobotomize94, Salaam alaikum. You said:

"If anything brother, the above verse is saying Adam's creation is similar to that of Jesus. Since Jesus developed in the womb, it is likely that Adam also developed in the womb. After all, their formation was similar."

My question:

Why God would make such analogy?
Quran does not say:
          1 - "the example of Adam to Allah is like that of Jesus."
                rather it is quite the opposite
          2 - "the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam."
We all agree including Christians that Jesus/Isa developed in the womb, what is not explicit is the development of Adam in the womb, then the creation of Adam need analogy not Jesus. In order to explain that creation of Adam was similar to Jesus, then the verse must be like (1). Since it is not like (1), then my above interpretation is correct, it is a counter argument to divinity of Jesus/Isa, not a counter argument against Creationism.

I do not believe in what is written in the Hadith books regarding Adam's creation, because Quran does not give any reference to Hadith, rather Quran[29:20]^[1] gives our own observations and thus science as reference.

Peace and regards.

^[1] قُلْ سِيرُوا فِي الْأَرْضِ فَانظُرُوا كَيْفَ بَدَأَ الْخَلْقَ ۚ ثُمَّ اللَّهُ يُنشِئُ النَّشْأَةَ الْآخِرَةَ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

53

General Discussions / Evolution

« on: September 14, 2015, 03:41:59 AM »

Salaam Joseph

I came across a topic in your website about evolution^[1]. I find it difficult to reconcile it with Quran[3:59]^[2]. I would like to know your opinion on this matter and interpretation of that verse.

Peace and regards.


^[1] http://quransmessage.com/articles/evolution%20FM3.htm
^[2] إِنَّ مَثَلَ عِيسَىٰ عِندَ اللَّهِ كَمَثَلِ آدَمَ ۖ خَلَقَهُ مِن تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ قَالَ لَهُ كُن فَيَكُونُ