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Messages - Athman

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General Discussions / Re: Verse 19:71 and 72
« on: November 26, 2017, 01:43:52 AM »
"...God chooses among His servants whom He wills, to guide, and, leaves astray, whom He wills. This is in His Omniscience and Omnipotence (35:8)."

"Then is one to whom the evil of his deed has been made attractive so he considers it good [like one rightly guided]? For indeed, Allah sends astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. So do not let yourself perish over them in regret. Indeed, Allah is Knowing of what they do." (Qur'an, Al-Fatir Chapter 35, verse "eight")

General Discussions / Re: Verse 19:71 and 72
« on: November 26, 2017, 01:10:08 AM »
Salaam Br. miracle114,

As a matter of fact we hope that Allah's mercy shall be granted to those "Whom He Wills" to, for them to enter heaven/Jannah.

For instance, those of 7:49. We have to however have in mind that Allah is both Merciful (1:1, 1:3) and Just (16:90, 5:8, 4:135) and thus understand His "repentance approval" (4:17-18) and mercy (3:74) in the widest context of His justice (99:7-8).

As you may sincerely admit, we wouldn't expect God's mercy to be random or arbitrary but in His Omniscient and Omnipotent Will. "Faith" and "manifest good works" have to be together. While in these, enjoining others to justice and perseverance. (103:3) Thus, "deeds alone" may not necessarily render one have Allah's mercy yes but it can also be argued that "at no time" can manifest deeds of somebody be taken to be "only" their claimed "righteousness," after all faith is at "heart/innate faculty."

God chooses among His servants whom He wills, to guide, and, leaves astray, whom He wills. This is in His Omniscience and Omnipotence (35:8).

We would also expect Him to have "mercy" on whom He wills for them to attain the state of felicity/bliss and condemn to Hell whom He wills, to their proportionate merit, again out of His Omniscience and Omnipotence. Ultimately, this can never be arbitrary of course.

I hope the following additional references could also shed some light into that issue, God willing:

2:218, 4:175, 6:54, 6:147, 7:72, 39:53

I trust that helps in some way. And God knows best.




...Couldn’t this “Baitika Muharami/Sacred House” referred to by Prophet Ibrahim be synonymous to “Masjidul Haraam/Sacred Mosque” which is most possibly at Makkah?...

That is, with an observation to render a restrictive “haram” suffix only applicable to the House/Mosque at Makkah as appears to other references in the Qur’an where the word appears, as well cited in the quote below as part of the discourse in one of your articles above.

“...Whether this is the first house (Awwala Bayt) or the Ancient House (Bayt al-ateeq) or simply 'the house' (al-bayt), there appears to be consistent use of the term 'Bayt' without the use of 'haram'. Where Bayt and haram appear combined, the Arabian sanctuary is indicated as in 5:2 and 5:97.”

NB: I trust that “Muharrami” (that which is consecrated) and “haraam” (consecrated) could be used interchangeably.



Salaamun Aleikum Br. Joseph,

I trust this finds you well. I have gone through the articles below which comprehensively stand to argue for the subject in question. “Interconnection between Makkah, Bacca, Qaabah, and Masjidul Haraam”

A well-presented exposition of course, in-line with what I have been carefully observing and contending for a long-time.

My point of interest is however on the verse below where Prophet Ibrahim mentions of making some of his offspring dwell in a barren location “by The Sacred House.” Could this “Baitika Muharami/Sacred House” referred to Prophet Ibrahim  be synonymous to “Masjidul Haraam/Sacred Mosque” which is most possibly at Makkah?

"O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in a valley without cultivation, by Thy Sacred House; in order, O our Lord, that they may establish regular prayer: so fill the hearts of some among men with love towards them, and feed them with fruits: so that they may give thanks" (Qur’an, Al-Ibrahim 14:37)


General Discussions / Re: Verse 19:71 and 72
« on: November 23, 2017, 05:48:31 PM »
Dear miracle114,

As salaam Aleikum,

This refers to the verse you are concerned of, as quoted below:

"And if Allah were to punish men for that which they earned, He would not leave a moving (living) creature on the surface of the earth, but He gives them respite to an appointed term, and when their term comes, then verily, Allah is Ever All-Seer of His slaves." (35:45)


“And if Allah were to impose blame on the people for their wrongdoing, He would not have left upon the earth any creature, but He defers them for a specified term. And when their term has come, they will not remain behind an hour, nor will they precede [it].” (16:61)

In my humble view, with the verse in question above, it can be clearly followed from the previous verses to 35:45, shortly as from 35:40, how the “shurakaa” (partners ascribed to God) of the addressees of the discourse are depicted as inferior and helpless from the various rhetorical impossibilities advanced through the verses.

The audience is also reminded of how the former people (“awwaliin”) who transgressed were treated and that with God, His ways never change, “in that respect”. It is then suggested that they may travel through the land to observe how the ends of those former people had been.

At this point is when verse 35:45 is presented which would arguably be suggestive of the idea that if the like of what had been imposed on previous generations on account of their transgressions would be applied on every creature during their “lifetime,” none would have escaped the ultimate “punishment/blame” as it can be arguably admitted that we all “transgress some bounds” to some considerable level at least.

However, with Allah’s mercy, that is deferred for a specific term. Mostly inferable from that is the idea that we are always on a continuous cycle of transformations and this provides room for finding the truth, staying introspective for gradual change, repentance, etc. However, when the time finally comes, it is never delayed an hour nor surpassed!

The appointed term lapse referred to in the verse could be another topic of discussion as to whether in future “but still during the victim’s lifetime” or in the afterlife “after Judgement.”



As salaam Aleikum,

Shukran Br. Joseph, well articulated and argued for.

Those are valuable points indeed.



Salaam Br. Joseph,

I went through the various threads and articles and it's lucky that my issue of concern has already previously been addressed in the following thread:

Any further insights into that topic shall be appreciated though if any. Thanks.



As salaam Aleikum Br. Joseph,

The following verses both refer to events on the “day” of Judgement. I have a difficulty in understanding the “coming of Allah” and “bearing of Allah’s Throne by the Angels (apparently from above (on top of them))” given that I have been understanding the Throne to mean “governing of all matters of whole Universe and everything in HIS dominion.”

This is with a view not to perceive the notion of Allah on a “physical throne” nor HIS “physical coming” with a resultantly spatial constraining view.
Could these be treated as amongst the “ambiguous verses” or rather just clear but in an allegorical sense? Otherwise, would you shed some light on this or if you had been understanding this otherwise more precisely different. Thanks.

And the angels are at its edges. And they will bear the Throne of your Lord above them, that Day, eight [of them]. (Qur’an, Al-Haqq 69:17)

And your Lord has come and the angels, rank upon rank (Qur’an, Al-Fajr 89:22)


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