46
General Discussions / Re: About Forgiveness
« on: March 16, 2018, 03:33:22 PM »
Salam Niaz,
Yes it makes sense Thank for your reply.
Regards,
Ahmad.
Yes it makes sense Thank for your reply.
Regards,
Ahmad.
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47
General Discussions / About Forgiveness
« on: March 10, 2018, 01:11:34 AM »
As Salam Alaykum,
The Quran states that forgiveness is better than retribution (42:40). From my experience, it is hard to forgive unless you are in a position of power, or unless the injustice that you have been through has seized. Like when Prophet Joseph forgave his brothers when he became a high official in Egypt. It's hard to imagine that he could have forgave them the moment he was thrown in the well. Also the example of prophet Muhammed comes to mind when he forgive the polytheists when he returned to Makka in triumph.
So my Question is, should forgiveness only happen when we are in a position of power ? Or is it also desirable from a Quranic perspective to forgive when we are still in a position of weakness ?
Thank you.
The Quran states that forgiveness is better than retribution (42:40). From my experience, it is hard to forgive unless you are in a position of power, or unless the injustice that you have been through has seized. Like when Prophet Joseph forgave his brothers when he became a high official in Egypt. It's hard to imagine that he could have forgave them the moment he was thrown in the well. Also the example of prophet Muhammed comes to mind when he forgive the polytheists when he returned to Makka in triumph.
So my Question is, should forgiveness only happen when we are in a position of power ? Or is it also desirable from a Quranic perspective to forgive when we are still in a position of weakness ?
Thank you.
48
General Discussions / Re: Scholars and Scandals – Can Knowledge be Taken from Abusers?
« on: March 02, 2018, 01:34:52 PM »
Thank you brother Niaz and Hamzeh for sharing your perspectives.
49
General Discussions / Re: Scholars and Scandals – Can Knowledge be Taken from Abusers?
« on: February 23, 2018, 06:13:59 PM »
And what about professions that are based on islamic principles/teachings like Islamic Finance or Islamic psychology. Do you think it should be done without compensation. Or would it be Ok to charge for these services ?
50
General Discussions / Re: Scholars and Scandals – Can Knowledge be Taken from Abusers?
« on: February 21, 2018, 10:04:00 PM »
Salam Niaz,
Thank you for your reply.
I agree with nearly all your points. Yes if muslims claim that the prophet is their role model then they should also imitate him in not taking a wage for teaching/spreading religion. And yes learning/teaching religion is a societal responsibility not just for specific individuals, even if some may have more knowledge than others. I also agree that the Qurans seems not to sanction the profession of scholar of religion.
Yes the Quran's message is simple but that does not mean that deeply studying it is. It has not been the case for me and I believe it's not for many others. Yet this does not necessarily justify making a living off of teaching it (As you said).
But we cannot deny that many important scholarly endeavours have come from those who make it their main profession. We can't deny for example all the good that Nouman Ali Khan has done for spreading the message of the Quran, even if we disagree with him.
But at the end, we have not tried a model where religion is taught without a fee (like the prophets), maybe it will yield better results...
What are your thoughts ? Did you think religion will be properly taught if there was no compensation involved ?
Thank you for your reply.
I agree with nearly all your points. Yes if muslims claim that the prophet is their role model then they should also imitate him in not taking a wage for teaching/spreading religion. And yes learning/teaching religion is a societal responsibility not just for specific individuals, even if some may have more knowledge than others. I also agree that the Qurans seems not to sanction the profession of scholar of religion.
Yes the Quran's message is simple but that does not mean that deeply studying it is. It has not been the case for me and I believe it's not for many others. Yet this does not necessarily justify making a living off of teaching it (As you said).
But we cannot deny that many important scholarly endeavours have come from those who make it their main profession. We can't deny for example all the good that Nouman Ali Khan has done for spreading the message of the Quran, even if we disagree with him.
But at the end, we have not tried a model where religion is taught without a fee (like the prophets), maybe it will yield better results...
What are your thoughts ? Did you think religion will be properly taught if there was no compensation involved ?
51
General Discussions / Re: Scholars and Scandals – Can Knowledge be Taken from Abusers?
« on: February 14, 2018, 11:43:05 PM »
Salam Niaz,
According to some Tafsirs (and my understanding), the verse can be referring to several types of methods for illicitly consuming money (off followers.) :
1. By convincing followers that the only way to salvation is through their service/obedience and paying money to win their approval.
2. Taking bribes to soften legal punishment
3. Making their living based on twisting/concealing the teachings of the book. [2:174]. For example: Denying that prophet Muhammed was a messenger.
4. Writing the book with their own hands and saying that it is from God [2:79]
So If a scholar does not do any of those things, and makes a living teaching the REAL message of the Quran without distortion. Why would it be unlawful ? As I said before the Quran expects a group of believers to be grounded in matters of religion. Such endeavours do sometimes requires some form of compensation. I can't find a verse where the Quran explicitly dismisses this option.
Thoughts ?
Regards
According to some Tafsirs (and my understanding), the verse can be referring to several types of methods for illicitly consuming money (off followers.) :
1. By convincing followers that the only way to salvation is through their service/obedience and paying money to win their approval.
2. Taking bribes to soften legal punishment
3. Making their living based on twisting/concealing the teachings of the book. [2:174]. For example: Denying that prophet Muhammed was a messenger.
4. Writing the book with their own hands and saying that it is from God [2:79]
So If a scholar does not do any of those things, and makes a living teaching the REAL message of the Quran without distortion. Why would it be unlawful ? As I said before the Quran expects a group of believers to be grounded in matters of religion. Such endeavours do sometimes requires some form of compensation. I can't find a verse where the Quran explicitly dismisses this option.
Thoughts ?
Regards
52
General Discussions / Re: Scholars and Scandals – Can Knowledge be Taken from Abusers?
« on: February 12, 2018, 01:55:06 PM »
I also feel that this post by brother Joseph is relevant.
(Why Do You Stay Anonymous?)
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1276.0
Regards
(Why Do You Stay Anonymous?)
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1276.0
Regards
53
General Discussions / Re: Scholars and Scandals – Can Knowledge be Taken from Abusers?
« on: February 12, 2018, 01:43:04 PM »
As Salam Alaykum,
I think verse 9:34 is referring to scholars who distort God's teaching/do negative deeds in the name of religion. However, I do not see anything wrong if a scholar's job is to teach religion (without distortion). After all, in any society there must be those who study and understand matters of religion professionally.
[9:122]
And it is not for the believers to go forth [to battle] all at once. For there should separate from every division of them a group [remaining] to obtain understanding in the religion and warn their people when they return to them that they might be cautious.
The Quran is silent on whether or not they should be compensated for their efforts. So I believe it's best not to dismiss this option entirely.
Furthermore, I believe some rulings although not mentioned explicitly in the Quran, Can be sourced to one of the Quranic principles. Which in turn, does not make it unquranic. For examples see brother Joseph's Q&A http://quransmessage.com/articles/q&as%20FM3.htm
And concerning:
In my humble opinion, the veracity of knowledge taken from any individual in matters of religion should not be based on their character/ behavior. Instead it should be based on the ARGUMENTS presented. We are all human and we are all prone to error. A person making a mistake does not nullify their arguments (given that they are built on sound basis). After all, its better to follow a good argument from a perceived enemy than a bad argument from a friend/ally. I believe this coincides with Niaz's second sentiment.
Regards,
Ahmad
I think verse 9:34 is referring to scholars who distort God's teaching/do negative deeds in the name of religion. However, I do not see anything wrong if a scholar's job is to teach religion (without distortion). After all, in any society there must be those who study and understand matters of religion professionally.
[9:122]
And it is not for the believers to go forth [to battle] all at once. For there should separate from every division of them a group [remaining] to obtain understanding in the religion and warn their people when they return to them that they might be cautious.
The Quran is silent on whether or not they should be compensated for their efforts. So I believe it's best not to dismiss this option entirely.
Furthermore, I believe some rulings although not mentioned explicitly in the Quran, Can be sourced to one of the Quranic principles. Which in turn, does not make it unquranic. For examples see brother Joseph's Q&A http://quransmessage.com/articles/q&as%20FM3.htm
And concerning:
Quote
How are we to take knowledge of ethics and virtues from individuals who may have acted in vile and abusive ways?
In my humble opinion, the veracity of knowledge taken from any individual in matters of religion should not be based on their character/ behavior. Instead it should be based on the ARGUMENTS presented. We are all human and we are all prone to error. A person making a mistake does not nullify their arguments (given that they are built on sound basis). After all, its better to follow a good argument from a perceived enemy than a bad argument from a friend/ally. I believe this coincides with Niaz's second sentiment.
Regards,
Ahmad
54
General Discussions / Re: God's role in our successes - a philosophical Question.
« on: February 09, 2018, 01:49:34 PM »
Salam Athman,
Thank you for your reply. I found this article that explains free will from a Quranic perspective. You might find it interesting.
http://www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_article.php?main_id=3363
Regards,
Ahmad.
Thank you for your reply. I found this article that explains free will from a Quranic perspective. You might find it interesting.
http://www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_article.php?main_id=3363
Regards,
Ahmad.
55
General Discussions / God's role in our successes - a philosophical Question.
« on: February 05, 2018, 02:49:55 PM »
As salam alaykum,
I have been thinking about a philosophical question and I wanted to hear your input about it:
If we take a successful person, a business man, scholar or any type of successful person. How much of his success should be attributed to the person and how much should be attributed to God ?
The impression I get from others (even if they do not explicitly say it) is that its a 50% - 50% relation. One does the requited effort + God's blessing = success.
But I find this thinking erroneous because :
1. It does not map the extent of God's role in our lives.
2. It leaves room for much pride (knowing that success is partially "my" own doing.)
So I thought that maybe a 99.9% (God) - 0.1% (Man) would be more appropriate. But then again, there's a problem. Actually we as humans, the only thing that we are truly free in is our "will". God has given us the freedom to choose. However, the moment our will materialises in the physical world then I believe it is 100% God's role.
Because if we take a simple act as getting a cup of water. I may freely choose to drink but the act of drinking itself is entirely controlled by God even if we have the illusion of control. God is responsible for my muscles, brain, water feet, hands, etc... These things are not mine. Even on the day of judgement one's hands can testify against them. The same principles applies if we analyse a more successful example (Successful career).
A person's success is based on his mental capacities, health (eyes, feet, hands etc...), upbringing, opportunities, country, energy from nutrition, or even the air he breathes. The list can go on and on. All of these things can only be attributed to God.
[14:34]
And He gave you from all you asked of Him. And if you should count the favor of Allah, you could not enumerate them. Indeed, mankind is [generally] most unjust and ungrateful.
Accordingly we may look at it as : 100% God's role. But without one's will God's role will not be manifested. Just like a traveling sailing boat. The wind is fully responsible for its movement but we need to setup our sails to catch wind in the first place. Or in the case of a skydiver, gravity is fully responsible to make him reach the ground but he needs to jump off the plane first for it to take effect (his will to become manifested).
I think if we look at it from this perspective. We close the door of pride and open the door of gratitude to God.
What are your thoughts ? Which model do you think is most appropriate ? Did I miss something ?
Thank you
Regards,
Ahmad.
I have been thinking about a philosophical question and I wanted to hear your input about it:
If we take a successful person, a business man, scholar or any type of successful person. How much of his success should be attributed to the person and how much should be attributed to God ?
The impression I get from others (even if they do not explicitly say it) is that its a 50% - 50% relation. One does the requited effort + God's blessing = success.
But I find this thinking erroneous because :
1. It does not map the extent of God's role in our lives.
2. It leaves room for much pride (knowing that success is partially "my" own doing.)
So I thought that maybe a 99.9% (God) - 0.1% (Man) would be more appropriate. But then again, there's a problem. Actually we as humans, the only thing that we are truly free in is our "will". God has given us the freedom to choose. However, the moment our will materialises in the physical world then I believe it is 100% God's role.
Because if we take a simple act as getting a cup of water. I may freely choose to drink but the act of drinking itself is entirely controlled by God even if we have the illusion of control. God is responsible for my muscles, brain, water feet, hands, etc... These things are not mine. Even on the day of judgement one's hands can testify against them. The same principles applies if we analyse a more successful example (Successful career).
A person's success is based on his mental capacities, health (eyes, feet, hands etc...), upbringing, opportunities, country, energy from nutrition, or even the air he breathes. The list can go on and on. All of these things can only be attributed to God.
[14:34]
And He gave you from all you asked of Him. And if you should count the favor of Allah, you could not enumerate them. Indeed, mankind is [generally] most unjust and ungrateful.
Accordingly we may look at it as : 100% God's role. But without one's will God's role will not be manifested. Just like a traveling sailing boat. The wind is fully responsible for its movement but we need to setup our sails to catch wind in the first place. Or in the case of a skydiver, gravity is fully responsible to make him reach the ground but he needs to jump off the plane first for it to take effect (his will to become manifested).
I think if we look at it from this perspective. We close the door of pride and open the door of gratitude to God.
What are your thoughts ? Which model do you think is most appropriate ? Did I miss something ?
Thank you
Regards,
Ahmad.
56
Discussions / Re: Thanks
« on: December 22, 2017, 03:54:19 AM »
Wa alaykum Al salam
I am also extremely grateful for finding this community. It has been of great support over the years. Especially when one feels there are no like minded folks around them. I would like to thank Brother Joseph and all the Forum members for their efforts and support. May God guide us all to the straight path and keep us from wavering in the face of adversity and trials. Indeed Truth is liberating but also a huge burden. One's accountability arguably increases when truth has reached them. But at the end, the mercy of God found in the Quran is far more valuable than the adornments of this world. I hope this fully sinks in my heart. May God make us of those who hold on the book firmly and allow us to be beacons of truth in a time where falsehood prevails.
Thank you all.
I am also extremely grateful for finding this community. It has been of great support over the years. Especially when one feels there are no like minded folks around them. I would like to thank Brother Joseph and all the Forum members for their efforts and support. May God guide us all to the straight path and keep us from wavering in the face of adversity and trials. Indeed Truth is liberating but also a huge burden. One's accountability arguably increases when truth has reached them. But at the end, the mercy of God found in the Quran is far more valuable than the adornments of this world. I hope this fully sinks in my heart. May God make us of those who hold on the book firmly and allow us to be beacons of truth in a time where falsehood prevails.
Thank you all.
57
Women / Re: Women's issues.. Again
« on: November 06, 2017, 08:22:06 PM »
Dear Sleepysoul
I think Its is very important to acknowledge the Quranic principles that states that Men and Women are spiritually equal. Although they may have different roles and responsibilities in this life, ultimately in the hereafter (Which what really matters in the end) no soul will be wronged because of its Gender. And all souls will get what ever they desire in Paradise.
33:35
"Indeed the Muslim men and the Muslim women, and the believing men and the believing women, and the obedient men and the obedient women, and the truthful men and the truthful women, and the patient men and the patient women, and the humble men and the humble women, and the men who give charity and the women who give charity, and the men who fast and the women who fast, and the men who guard their private parts / chastity and the women who guard it, and the men who remember God much and the women who remember - God has prepared for THEM forgiveness and a mighty / great reward."
16:31
Gardens of perpetual residence, which they will enter, beneath which rivers flow. They will have therein whatever they wish. Thus does Allah reward the righteous -
One opinions is that the Quran describes what Men will get in Paradise and its left ambiguous for Women, not because women will be wronged. On the contrary they will get whatever they will desire. But behind not mentioning a specific reward is wisdom as pointed out in this video by Brother Nouman Ali Khan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVybKR_O_34
You also might want to read brother Joseph's opinion on the matter. He has interpreted the issue differently. http://quransmessage.com/articles/sexy%20female%20virgins%20for%20men%20in%20heaven%20FM3.htm .
You can also see Zakir Naik's argument regarding the wisdom behind polygamy. However any rationalization should remain secondary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm8m2Cik040 (I don't necessary agree with all what he said, but still you can get good points from his argument)
But actually the Quran acknowledges that Women too have desires. For example this is apparent in Prophet Joseph's story. And is also apparent when God asks women to lower their gaze.
[12:23]
And she, in whose house he was, sought to seduce him. She closed the doors and said, "Come, you." He said, "[I seek] the refuge of Allah. Indeed, he is my master, who has made good my residence. Indeed, wrongdoers will not succeed."
12:24]
And she certainly determined [to seduce] him, and he would have inclined to her had he not seen the proof of his Lord. And thus [it was] that We should avert from him evil and immorality. Indeed, he was of Our chosen servants.
[12:25]
And they both raced to the door, and she tore his shirt from the back, and they found her husband at the door. She said, "What is the recompense of one who intended evil for your wife but that he be imprisoned or a painful punishment?"
[24:31]
And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty;
You also might want to look at this opinion about Wife beating. It explains the issue very well in my opinion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1azySjz4edk&t=9s
Maybe other member might address the other points you raised. But I hope this helps in small way.
Regards,
Ahmad
Quote
Sometimes I feel like I go back to doubting whether women really are given as much importance as men in Islam
I think Its is very important to acknowledge the Quranic principles that states that Men and Women are spiritually equal. Although they may have different roles and responsibilities in this life, ultimately in the hereafter (Which what really matters in the end) no soul will be wronged because of its Gender. And all souls will get what ever they desire in Paradise.
33:35
"Indeed the Muslim men and the Muslim women, and the believing men and the believing women, and the obedient men and the obedient women, and the truthful men and the truthful women, and the patient men and the patient women, and the humble men and the humble women, and the men who give charity and the women who give charity, and the men who fast and the women who fast, and the men who guard their private parts / chastity and the women who guard it, and the men who remember God much and the women who remember - God has prepared for THEM forgiveness and a mighty / great reward."
16:31
Gardens of perpetual residence, which they will enter, beneath which rivers flow. They will have therein whatever they wish. Thus does Allah reward the righteous -
One opinions is that the Quran describes what Men will get in Paradise and its left ambiguous for Women, not because women will be wronged. On the contrary they will get whatever they will desire. But behind not mentioning a specific reward is wisdom as pointed out in this video by Brother Nouman Ali Khan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVybKR_O_34
You also might want to read brother Joseph's opinion on the matter. He has interpreted the issue differently. http://quransmessage.com/articles/sexy%20female%20virgins%20for%20men%20in%20heaven%20FM3.htm .
Quote
Then there are issues such as polygamy, the purpose and "wisdom" of which I just don't understand.
You can also see Zakir Naik's argument regarding the wisdom behind polygamy. However any rationalization should remain secondary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm8m2Cik040 (I don't necessary agree with all what he said, but still you can get good points from his argument)
Quote
One thing that really bothers me is how so many Muslim men don't acknowledge that women also have desires. They also find men attractive. They also have to protect themselves from sin and distraction. It's as if the focus is often on men and how to fix their overly aggressive "hormones"
But actually the Quran acknowledges that Women too have desires. For example this is apparent in Prophet Joseph's story. And is also apparent when God asks women to lower their gaze.
[12:23]
And she, in whose house he was, sought to seduce him. She closed the doors and said, "Come, you." He said, "[I seek] the refuge of Allah. Indeed, he is my master, who has made good my residence. Indeed, wrongdoers will not succeed."
12:24]
And she certainly determined [to seduce] him, and he would have inclined to her had he not seen the proof of his Lord. And thus [it was] that We should avert from him evil and immorality. Indeed, he was of Our chosen servants.
[12:25]
And they both raced to the door, and she tore his shirt from the back, and they found her husband at the door. She said, "What is the recompense of one who intended evil for your wife but that he be imprisoned or a painful punishment?"
[24:31]
And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty;
You also might want to look at this opinion about Wife beating. It explains the issue very well in my opinion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1azySjz4edk&t=9s
Maybe other member might address the other points you raised. But I hope this helps in small way.
Regards,
Ahmad
58
Discussions / Re: What constitutes the Torah and the Injeel today ?
« on: November 02, 2017, 06:57:20 AM »
Thank you
59
General Discussions / Re: Are Quranists too extreme?
« on: November 02, 2017, 06:22:16 AM »
Dear Samson,
I too pray the way most muslims pray. You are right it does create unity. Something which goes with the spirit of the Quran. But I do not do so because I know for sure that God taught this method to his prophet. I do so because simply the current method of prayer does not go against the Quran (for the most part). Actually it mostly fulfills the Quranic requirement for prayer. So I see no need to re-reinvent the wheel. I think its wise to just accept the current method of prayer as Best Practice (as brother Joseph has pointed out).
I hope this helps,
Regards,
Ahmad
I too pray the way most muslims pray. You are right it does create unity. Something which goes with the spirit of the Quran. But I do not do so because I know for sure that God taught this method to his prophet. I do so because simply the current method of prayer does not go against the Quran (for the most part). Actually it mostly fulfills the Quranic requirement for prayer. So I see no need to re-reinvent the wheel. I think its wise to just accept the current method of prayer as Best Practice (as brother Joseph has pointed out).
I hope this helps,
Regards,
Ahmad
60
Discussions / Re: What constitutes the Torah and the Injeel today ?
« on: November 02, 2017, 05:58:27 AM »
Thank you for your answer