Messages

31

General Discussions / Re: What was the difficulty/test mentioned in the "change of qiblah" verses?

« on: June 05, 2021, 03:51:28 PM »

Thank you for clarifying, however I consider your view implausible. For it to even be an option, in my eyes, I'd have see several clear examples from Quran showing that pronouns can refer to concepts/ideas/situation (things unmentioned) and not words in context. Pronouns are used thousands of times in Quran, thus I would imagine if you struggle to find even one you will have to reject your view.

You may be interested to know that there is much variance when it comes to this issue of "it" which I discuss in the article.

32

General Discussions / Re: What was the difficulty/test mentioned in the "change of qiblah" verses?

« on: June 05, 2021, 04:46:03 AM »

But "wijhatun" is a feminine noun, the "it" in 2:144, 2:146 and 2:149 is in the masculine singular, i.e. it refers to a masculine noun. Thus I do not see how your view is possible unless I have misunderstood.

To clarify what word is the "it" referring to in 2:144, 2:146, 2:149?

33

General Discussions / Re: What was the difficulty/test mentioned in the "change of qiblah" verses?

« on: June 04, 2021, 05:03:16 AM »

peace Athman,

Thanks for clarifying. I did think that was the case but wasn't sure. I personally found brother Joseph's article quite convoluted with too many interpolations.

I dont think it works with the Arabic due to the future particle "sa" and the tenses used. Even in brother Joseph's article he makes improper use of tense, e.g. "It is also clear that some assertions had been made by a section of the community who clearly questioned the Qibla change." This is simply not true. It is more accurate to say assertions will be made.

There are further issues, e.g. what does the "it" refer to in these verses?
2:144 ... and indeed those who have been given the writ/decree know that it is the truth from their Lord.
2:146 ...Those to whom We have given the decree/writ recognise it like they recognise their sons

etc.

34

General Discussions / Re: What was the difficulty/test mentioned in the "change of qiblah" verses?

« on: May 28, 2021, 02:15:43 AM »

Brother Joseph do you have feedback on this issue?

I can't quite tell your position based on this article:
http://quransmessage.com/articles/qibla%20FM3.htm

35

General Discussions / Re: Lut a.s. claifies homosexuality was NOT the sin.

« on: December 27, 2020, 07:56:57 PM »

Also discussed here recently:
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611217.msg431545#msg431545

36

General Discussions / Re: Quranic attitude towards Blasphemy & difference b/w tolerating & avoiding it

« on: November 16, 2020, 05:31:40 PM »

Thanks. Spread the word about the website, share on social media etc. The accompanying site AreYouMuslim.com is also very good.

37

General Discussions / Re: Quranic attitude towards Blasphemy & difference b/w tolerating & avoiding it

« on: November 15, 2020, 08:36:51 PM »

peace,

I would imagine if it crosses into harassment/threatening or advocates harming a group then action could be taken. I believe most countries have laws against that, e.g. "hate speech", "incitement to violence".

More verses here:
https://www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/misconception.php?id=44

38

Q&As with Joseph Islam - Information Only / Re: Dhuhr Prayer, Ashiyyan & 24:58

« on: August 21, 2020, 04:18:53 AM »

These verses came up in a discussion here:
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=477.0

As you probably already know it is assumed by the author that sbh, hmd, and salat are equivalent in these contexts.

39

General Discussions / Re: Prophet Abraham asked to sacrifice his son?

« on: August 09, 2020, 02:25:20 PM »

peace Inayah,

Firstly, no-one is saying the so-called "sacrificial son" can only be Isaac.

Secondly, 14:39 doesn't "confirm" what you claim (i.e. order of birth) but certainly one could make such a case based on that verse but "confirm" is far too strong a word based on the evidence you presented. "suggests" is much more apt.

Thirdly, 37:112 does not mention "the coming of Isaac". Whenever the phrase "good news" is used it tells us what the "good news" is. In 37:112's case it is of "Isaac, a prophet from the righteous".

40

General Discussions / Re: Prophet Abraham asked to sacrifice his son?

« on: July 31, 2020, 04:46:34 PM »

It is that time of the year again (according to Traditional Islam): Eid Al-Adha

Questions to ask about the traditional story:
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Abraham-Sacrifice-Questions.html

(to this day no-one has attempted to answer all the questions)

Is it time to sacrifice our long held dogmatic beliefs? Perhaps.

41

General Discussions / Re: Clueless about Islam without history

« on: July 27, 2020, 03:53:03 AM »

Re: example 1
Let's say his name was Jim instead. Can you tell us how this would change the guidance?

Re: example 2
e.g. "it is the truth" is singular.
If we read Quran as a whole is there any clear indication in it that we should follow other books also? No.

42

General Discussions / Re: Clueless about Islam without history

« on: July 25, 2020, 04:20:39 AM »

Are those "details" you mentioned necessary for our salvation/guidance?

43

General Discussions / Re: Does "Ayat" really mean "verse"? Arabic speakers, please help.

« on: July 19, 2020, 07:24:22 PM »

You may find this resources helpful:
http://www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm

Alif-Ya-Waw = sign, apparent sign, mark, indication, message, evidence, proof, miracle, communication, verse of The Quran. It properly signifies any apparent thing inseparable from a thing not equally apparent so that when one perceives the former, he perceives the other which he cannot perceive by itself.

ayah n.f. (pl. ayat) 2:39, 2:41, 2:61, 2:73, 2:99, 2:106, 2:118, 2:118, 2:129, 2:145, 2:151, 2:164, 2:187, 2:211, 2:219, 2:221, 2:231, 2:242, 2:248, 2:248, 2:252, 2:259, 2:266, 3:4, 3:7, 3:11, 3:13, 3:19, 3:21, 3:41, 3:41, 3:49, 3:49, 3:50, 3:58, 3:70, 3:97, 3:98, 3:101, 3:103, 3:108, 3:112, 3:113, 3:118, 3:164, 3:190, 3:199, 4:56, 4:140, 4:155, 5:10, 5:44, 5:75, 5:86, 5:89, 5:114, 6:4, 6:4, 6:21, 6:25, 6:27, 6:33, 6:35, 6:37, 6:39, 6:46, 6:49, 6:54, 6:55, 6:65, 6:68, 6:93, 6:97, 6:98, 6:99, 6:105, 6:109, 6:109, 6:118, 6:124, 6:126, 6:130, 6:150, 6:157, 6:157, 6:158, 6:158, 7:9, 7:26, 7:32, 7:35, 7:36, 7:37, 7:40, 7:51, 7:58, 7;64, 7:72, 7:73, 7:103, 7:106, 7:126, 7:132, 7:133, 7:136, 7:146, 7:146, 7:146, 7:147, 7:156, 7:174, 7:175, 7:176, 7:177, 7:182, 7:203, 8:2, 8:31, 8:52, 8:54, 9:9, 9:11, 9:65, 10:1, 10:5, 10:6, 10:7, 10:15, 10:17, 10:20, 10:21, 10:24, 10:67, 10:71, 10:73, 10:75, 10:92, 10:92, 10:95, 10:97, 10:101, 11:1, 11:59, 11:64, 11:96, 11:103, 12:1, 12:7, 12:35, 12:105, 13:1, 13:2, 13:3, 13:4, 13:7, 13:27, 13:38, 14:5, 14:5, 15:1, 15:75, 15:77, 15:81, 16:11, 16:12, 16:13, 16:65, 16:67, 16:69, 16:79, 16:101, 16:101, 16:104, 16:105, 17:1, 17:12, 17:12, 17:12, 17:59, 17:59, 17:98, 17:101, 18:9, 18:17, 18:56, 18:57, 18:105, 18:106, 19:10, 19:10, 19:21, 19:58, 19:73, 19:77, 20:22, 20:23, 20:42, 20:47, 20:54, 20:56, 20:126, 20:127, 20:128, 20:133, 20:134, 21:5, 21:32, 21:37, 21:77, 21:91, 22:16, 22:51, 22:52, 22:57, 22:72, 22:72, 23:30, 23:45, 23:50, 23:58, 23:66, 23:105, 24:1, 24:18, 24:34, 24:46, 24:58, 24:59, 24:61, 25:36, 25:37, 25:73, 26:2, 26:4, 26:8, 26:15, 26:67, 26:103, 26:121, 26:128, 26:139, 26:154, 26:158, 26:174, 26:190, 26:197, 27:1, 27;12, 27:13, 27:52, 27:81, 27:82, 27:83, 27:84, 27:86, 27:93, 28:2, 28:35, 28:36, 28:45, 28:47, 28:59, 28:87, 29:15, 29:23, 29:24, 29:35, 29:44, 29:47, 29:49, 29:49, 29:50, 29:50, 30:10, 30:16, 30:20, 30:21, 30:21, 30:22, 30:22, 30:23, 30:23, 30:24, 30:24, 30:25, 30:28, 30:37, 30:46, 30:53, 30:58, 31:2, 31:7, 31:31, 31:31, 31:32, 32:15, 32:22, 32:24, 32:26, 33:34, 34:5, 34:9, 34:15, 34:19, 34:38, 34:43, 36:33, 36:37, 36:41, 36:46, 36:46, 37:14, 38:29, 39:42, 39:52, 39:59, 39:63, 39:71, 40:4, 40:13, 40:23, 40:35, 40:56, 40:63, 40:69, 40:78, 40:81, 40:81, 41:3, 41:15, 41:28, 41:37, 41:39, 41:40, 41:44, 41:53, 42:29, 42:32, 42:33, 42:35, 43:46, 43:47, 43:48, 43:69, 44:33, 45:3, 45:4, 45:5, 45:6, 45:6, 45:8, 45:9, 45:11, 45:13, 45:25, 45:31, 45:35, 46:7, 46:26, 46:27, 48:20, 51:20, 51:37, 53:18, 54:2, 54:15, 54:42, 57:9, 57:17, 57:19, 58:5, 62:2, 62:5, 64:10, 65:11, 68:15, 74:16, 78:28, 79:20, 83:13, 90:19

Lane's Lexicon, Volume 1, pages: 168, 169, 170, 171, 172  ##  http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=ayw

44

General Discussions / What was the difficulty/test mentioned in the "change of qiblah" verses?

« on: July 18, 2020, 08:01:58 PM »

peace all,

Please see here for a much better formatted article (with helpful links embedded):
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/qiblah.html

Please use above link but article cut and pasted below without formatting for reference:

It has recently come to my attention that many people misread these verses and erroneously conclude that the difficulty discussed in 2:143 was the change in "qiblah" (which is what Traditional explanations tend to focus on). In some ways it is understandable that a misreading occurs as we are likely clouded in thinking by the traditional discussions surrounding these verses. I will outline the multiple problems with this traditional understanding:

1) Please pay careful attention to the tense of the words highlighted (green is present/future/imperfect tense, red is past/perfect tense):

2:142 The foolish from the people will say* "What has turned them from the qiblah/focal-point which they were on it**?" Say: "To God is the east and the west, He guides whomever He wishes to a straight/establishing path."
2:143 And as such We have made you a balanced community so that you will be witnesses over the people, and the messenger will be a witness over you. And not We made the qiblah/focal-point which thou were on it** except that We make evident he who follows the messenger from he who will turn back on his heels. And indeed it was certainly a great/difficult (thing/test) except for those whom God guided; And not was God to let go waste your belief. Indeed, God is over the people Fully-Kind and Merciful.
2:144 Indeed, We see thy face/consideration moving in the sky/heaven; so surely We will turn thee (onto/to) a qiblah/focal-point that will please thee: so turn...
*i.e. they will say in the future, obviously AFTER the change in qiblah/focus occurs. This is also made clear by use of the prefixed future particle "sa" in the Arabic.
**compare these occurrences.

Hopefully it should now be clear that the great/big (thing/test) was being on the 1st qiblah (i.e. the one prior to the change). However, we can also verify this using what else The Quran says.

2) It is clear from 2:144 that the change in qiblah (or the 2nd qiblah) will please the messenger. Therefore if you think that the change in qiblah was the difficult thing (as is traditionally discussed) then this will conflict with the messenger being pleased about it. Is he pleased for him (and his community) to undergo a great difficulty? Yes/No.

3) If, for some reason, you answer "yes" to the above it is refuted by 2:144 when it says "Indeed, We see thy face/consideration moving in the sky/heaven; so surely We will turn thee (onto/to) a qiblah/focal-point that will please thee...". This is taken by everyone (that I have read) to mean the messenger was seeking guidance, he was somewhat unsettled/uncomfortable, and we may even say not as pleased (relatively speaking) on the 1st qiblah (prior to the change). To make it even clearer:

We see thy face/consideration moving in the sky/heaven (i.e. currently on the 1st qiblah, less pleasing)
so
surely We will turn thee (onto/to) a qiblah/focal-point that will please thee (i.e. on/to the 2nd qiblah, more pleasing)

This matches with 2:143 in which it is said the 1st/prior qiblah was difficult. It ties together perfectly.

4) Furthermore, this is confirmed in 2:150 when it gives us the reasons for the change (or what the change in qiblah will result in) e.g. "so that not will be for the people against you debate/argument". Obviously being in a situation of less argument/hostility would be more pleasing i.e. a positive, further solidifying that the 1st qiblah which they were on (probably involving more argument/hostility) was the difficult one.


All information confirms and reinforces each other, that being on the 1st qiblah was the difficulty spoken of in 2:143.


Note: I am simply using the terminology "1st qiblah" and "2nd qiblah" to make this article easier to follow. In the article on "al masjid al haram" it is highlighted that The Quran tells us there could be many qiblah, each person could have their own qiblah etc. This makes sense with the term qiblah being related to wijhatun (course, goal, motive, direction) in 2:148. To read further discussion please see the article.
After reading these articles you may wish to try slotting in whatever understanding you have of "qiblah" and "al masjid al haram" and what the 1st qiblah was etc to see if you can make sense of the verses. There is a high chance you will fail and/or be unable to explain the various issues brought up in these verses. If you come up with something that fits (different to my own understanding) please share it here.

It is ironic to think that some may read the above, ignore the problems and stick with their current view. Akin to turning back on their heels unable to face the truth. Maybe it's time to change direction?

IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER:

This work reflects my personal understanding, as of 17th July 2020. Seeking knowledge is a continual process and I will try to improve my understanding of the signs within 'the reading' (al quran) and out with it, unless The God wills otherwise. All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

More articles: http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/

45

General Discussions / Re: How is the Quran "fully detailed"?

« on: July 13, 2020, 04:56:44 AM »

IVt also doesn't tell us how to check our blood pressure, how to brush our hair, how to brush our teeth, what the name of Moses' dad was, what all the Jewish sects were at the time Quran was revealed etc etc


When you buy a self-assembly desk from IKEA and it comes with instructions which say they are fully detailed or has everything we need to know...   what is it referring to?