Show Posts
136
Discussions / Re: Father Abraham
« on: September 19, 2014, 12:37:03 AM »
Aleikum selam Hamzeh,
I've been reading the articles you gave me, although I've been reading them before (I'm an ardent reader of brother Joseph's articles, may Allah reward him for them), and even though I agree with brother Joseph's points, there are at times questions that arise (at least for me).
You say that Allah swears by sky or ten nights or other things. But just because it doesn't say the sky is above us, it doesn't mean it's talking about another sky which we can't see (an example just for illustration) . I remember a scholar from my childhood who used to say that Quran only mentions places that exist to this day (i.e. Masjid al Aqsa, Mount Sinai, Mount Joodi, Aad, Thamood, etc), so that the reader can "travel on earth and see what was the ending of the deniers" (16:36). If those places wouldn't have been known for people of those times, this challenge wouldn't make sense. Of course, they are far from their original form, they're either ruins or remains, but we've had something left from them. Quran never mentions the name or location i.e.of the cities of prophets Lot or Noah (peace be upon them), because they were destroyed in such a way that we will perhaps never know where were they located. Since it does mention the prayer of Abraham for making that place a 'secure city', and since Allah swears by that 'secure city', it makes sense to conclude that Abraham's prayer has been answered and that secure city exists.
And yes, the forefathers of Muhammad pbuh had never received guidance, because:1) prophet Ishmael was not given a book. The only prophets to receive written scripture were Moses, David, Jesus (if we take Injeel as a book) and Muhammad (peace be upon them). and 2)When prophet Muhammad received the revelation, nearly two millenniums had passed since prophet Ishmael. Therefore it may make sense to say that prophet's forefathers never received guidance. Ishmael was not given a written scripture, and without a written scripture, people went astray from his teachings as time went by. If people go astray while having the written scripture with them, imagine if they are left with oral traditions only!
This could be why they are never refereed to as "Bani Ishmael", because they went astray from his teaching. On the other hand, "Bani Israil" as the Quran says, not all of them went astray - there was a small group of them who remained continuously steadfast to the scriptures they received. Ibrahim's sons from Keturah are never mentioned in the Quran, because their descendants followed pagan religions. This is a strong indicator why the Quran only mentions Isaac and Ishmael as Abraham's descendants, although he had other sons
As for a Qibla, thanks to a jewish friend of mine who sent me some pictures, see the tabernacle (a mini-temple) that Moses was instructed to make, God himself gave him the instructions, and it was to serve as a place of worship and animal sacrificing and a direction of prayer (Qibla), until they enter the Canaan and build a temple for him (Solomon built it).
https://bleon1.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/tabernacle-in-wilderness_dsc00129.png
Note the similarities with Kaaba. There are no coincidences in God's orders and instructions and plans. From the Quran we know that Abraham had also received a command from God to built for him a place which would serve for his worship, a worship which would include animal sacrificing for him (Abraham sacrificed a sheep there instead of his son), and was to be used as a place of pilgrimage.
The previous Qibla was Jerusalem, where the temple that replaced tabernacle of Moses was located. If God would change the Qibla, it is logical to allude that it would be a place which was also meant something for him (i.e. Mount Sinai, or Mount Joodi, or even this place Abraham built a temple for him, which was later to become a secure city, and where a messenger was to come to purify them from idol worship (this prayer is in the Quran). Why would God instruct us to abandon the Qibla towards a holy place of his, and instruct us to pray facing a temple built for someone other than him? just because the Kaaba was turned into a pagan temple as time passed by, that doesn't necessarily mean it was also built for pagan worship. Praying to the one true God while facing a temple which was built and meant for gods of wood and stone - this would be illogical for me.
Just my humble opinion, after reading both the Quran and Bible.
And God knows best
Selam
I've been reading the articles you gave me, although I've been reading them before (I'm an ardent reader of brother Joseph's articles, may Allah reward him for them), and even though I agree with brother Joseph's points, there are at times questions that arise (at least for me).
You say that Allah swears by sky or ten nights or other things. But just because it doesn't say the sky is above us, it doesn't mean it's talking about another sky which we can't see (an example just for illustration) . I remember a scholar from my childhood who used to say that Quran only mentions places that exist to this day (i.e. Masjid al Aqsa, Mount Sinai, Mount Joodi, Aad, Thamood, etc), so that the reader can "travel on earth and see what was the ending of the deniers" (16:36). If those places wouldn't have been known for people of those times, this challenge wouldn't make sense. Of course, they are far from their original form, they're either ruins or remains, but we've had something left from them. Quran never mentions the name or location i.e.of the cities of prophets Lot or Noah (peace be upon them), because they were destroyed in such a way that we will perhaps never know where were they located. Since it does mention the prayer of Abraham for making that place a 'secure city', and since Allah swears by that 'secure city', it makes sense to conclude that Abraham's prayer has been answered and that secure city exists.
And yes, the forefathers of Muhammad pbuh had never received guidance, because:1) prophet Ishmael was not given a book. The only prophets to receive written scripture were Moses, David, Jesus (if we take Injeel as a book) and Muhammad (peace be upon them). and 2)When prophet Muhammad received the revelation, nearly two millenniums had passed since prophet Ishmael. Therefore it may make sense to say that prophet's forefathers never received guidance. Ishmael was not given a written scripture, and without a written scripture, people went astray from his teachings as time went by. If people go astray while having the written scripture with them, imagine if they are left with oral traditions only!
This could be why they are never refereed to as "Bani Ishmael", because they went astray from his teaching. On the other hand, "Bani Israil" as the Quran says, not all of them went astray - there was a small group of them who remained continuously steadfast to the scriptures they received. Ibrahim's sons from Keturah are never mentioned in the Quran, because their descendants followed pagan religions. This is a strong indicator why the Quran only mentions Isaac and Ishmael as Abraham's descendants, although he had other sons
As for a Qibla, thanks to a jewish friend of mine who sent me some pictures, see the tabernacle (a mini-temple) that Moses was instructed to make, God himself gave him the instructions, and it was to serve as a place of worship and animal sacrificing and a direction of prayer (Qibla), until they enter the Canaan and build a temple for him (Solomon built it).
https://bleon1.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/tabernacle-in-wilderness_dsc00129.png
Note the similarities with Kaaba. There are no coincidences in God's orders and instructions and plans. From the Quran we know that Abraham had also received a command from God to built for him a place which would serve for his worship, a worship which would include animal sacrificing for him (Abraham sacrificed a sheep there instead of his son), and was to be used as a place of pilgrimage.
The previous Qibla was Jerusalem, where the temple that replaced tabernacle of Moses was located. If God would change the Qibla, it is logical to allude that it would be a place which was also meant something for him (i.e. Mount Sinai, or Mount Joodi, or even this place Abraham built a temple for him, which was later to become a secure city, and where a messenger was to come to purify them from idol worship (this prayer is in the Quran). Why would God instruct us to abandon the Qibla towards a holy place of his, and instruct us to pray facing a temple built for someone other than him? just because the Kaaba was turned into a pagan temple as time passed by, that doesn't necessarily mean it was also built for pagan worship. Praying to the one true God while facing a temple which was built and meant for gods of wood and stone - this would be illogical for me.
Just my humble opinion, after reading both the Quran and Bible.
And God knows best
Selam
