Messages

46

General Discussions / Re: I think Wudu(Ablution) has to be done before *every* prayer, right?

« on: August 25, 2017, 09:45:10 AM »

I think they are mentioned to account for what to do if you performed wudu but did not pray. For example, you perform wudu and just as you were about to pray, you break it.

That seems not reasonable brother,

See the command for ablution in the verse, "...if you started/got up to the prayers, so wash..."
It is clear that we are taking ablution only when we are deciding for the Swalah, so there is no chances of a time gap between the new ablution and the Swalah.

And how it comes for a believer that, after deciding for the Swalah, he takes ablution and then he goes to feel his wife before completing the Swalah ??

Thanks!

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General Discussions / Re: I think Wudu(Ablution) has to be done before *every* prayer, right?

« on: July 18, 2017, 11:06:55 AM »

Consider the verse without mentioning the 4 cases, then it will be like, we have to do ablution before all prayer. But why these 4 cases mentioned in particular ?

I think they are mentioned to account for what to do if you performed wudu but did not pray. For example, you perform wudu and just as you were about to pray, you break it.

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General Discussions / Re: I think Wudu(Ablution) has to be done before *every* prayer, right?

« on: July 17, 2017, 04:41:42 PM »

Dear Brother,
Assalaamu 'alaikum

The verse (5:6) says about 4 special cases
1. Illness.
2. On a journey.
3. Have been to the toilet.
4. Touched woman (with an intention to feel).

If any of the above mentioned cases happened with us, then it is mandatory to take ablution (or tayammam-when no water found) prior to Swalah. And if it (any of the 4 cases) did not happen, then it is not necessary (as I understood) to take ablution but better to keep ourselves mentally and physically clean throughout the interval. And in case if any physical impurity, other than the 4 cases happened, then we should clean it as soon as possible.

Thanks for responding!

I understand that these are the 4 cases which are required to repeat wudu, but verse 5:6 says that "before you stand for prayer wash...". So if you perform wudu before a prayer, and then do any of those 4, you must repeat wudu. However, verse 5:6 also says it must be performed before you stand for prayer.

Lets say your pray the morning prayer, go to sleep, and wake up to pray another prayer, 5:6 says that you must perform wudu even those those 4 cases didn't occur.

Does Joseph Islam care to help me out?

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General Discussions / I think Wudu(Ablution) has to be done before *every* prayer, right?

« on: July 13, 2017, 07:07:05 AM »

[Quran 5:6] O you who have believed, when you rise to [perform] prayer, wash your faces and your forearms to the elbows and wipe over your heads and wash your feet to the ankles.

To me, this is saying before you perform prayer, you need to perform Wudu (ablution).

Someone, please help me in interpreting this.

50

General Discussions / Re: The God Paradox

« on: November 19, 2015, 02:48:53 PM »

Mia, this claim is absolutely ridiculous and it should not give you any trouble.

"Can God create a rock and even he cannot lift". God is Omnipotent, he is all powerful, he can do ALL things. But what is a "thing". A thing is something possible. If something is impossible it is not a 'thing'. So we deduce: God can do all things means God can do all things that are possible to do.

So can God create a rock that he cannot lift? No, because it is impossible. Being omnipotent or all powerful does not mean you can do what is impossible. Can God make a square circle? Can God kill himself? All of these things are impossible. Omnipotence doesn’t mean the ability to do things that are logically impossible.

I REALLY REALLY RECOMEND YOU READ OR WATCH THIS PODCAST IF THIS IS GIVING YOU TROUBLE:

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/defenders-2-podcast/transcript/s3-17#ixzz3rux320bf

51

General Discussions / Re: Evolution

« on: September 23, 2015, 09:00:53 AM »

You can also think of it this way. If Both Jesus and Adam were not formed in a long process and the only thing they had in common was the absence of parents, then how can Allah refer to their method of creation as being similar to each other? Their method of creation is not similar at all, in fact, they would be entirely different. If when God said "BE", the method to create Adam was instantaneous and the method to create Jesus took a long process in the pregnancy, then the methods are not similar at all, so Allah wouldn't refer to the method of their creation as being similar if one was formed instantly and the other was formed in a long process of proportioning in the womb. Secondly Jesus existed in the womb and was proportioned in the womb, if Adam didn't exist in the womb then how was Adam and Jesus' methods of creation so alike?? When Allah creates from dust and says Be, and Adam was formed instantly, then we'd expect Jesus to be formed instantly when Allah says "be" and both their methods of creation were alike. But Jesus wasn't formed instantly, so there is no reason to think Adam formed instantly.

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General Discussions / Re: Evolution

« on: September 23, 2015, 07:56:19 AM »

You said:

I don't think this verse is a counter argument against creationism. I think it is a counter argument to the divinity of Jesus.

That is exactly my point in the first portion of my reply (to Joseph).

I think Joseph agrees that this verse is indeed a counter argument to the divinity of Jesus. If you read the post he linked to, Joseph explicitly stated this. The only disagreement between Joseph/myself and you is to whether or not this verse refutes the creationist claims that Adam was created instantly and never existed in the womb.

I think you're messing a very important point here, this statement is directed to Christians and the main audience of this verse are Christians and Christians do not believe that Adam was a born human being, rather they believe Adam was created instantly by God in one day. If you show this verse to any Evangelist Christian the only possible thing that would come to in his/her mind would be birth without father and mother. That is why I asked this question in the first place.

It is definitely true that the main purpose of this verse is a counter argument to the Christian claim that Jesus is God/divine. But, you must understand that God's word in the Quran is precise and accurate. When God says that the universe was created in 6 eons, he means the universe was created 6 eons regardless of whether that verse was a counterargument to the disbeliever's claims. Likewise, when God says that Jesus and Adam had a similar process of creation, then Jesus and Adam had a similar process of creation regardless of whether or not this verse was a counterargument to the Christian claim that Jesus was divine. So what is the similarity between Jesus and Adam's creation? Jesus and Adam were both created from dust (just like how we all are), and Allah said "be" and they were formed in a similar process of creation in a womb. God is very precise in language in the Quran, when God says X in the Quran, X is true regardless of whether X's major purpose was a counter argument to Christians. So if Jesus and Adam's creation is equivalent in its process, then Adam and Jesus formed in the same way.  We know that Jesus formed inside the womb and formed in a long process and Adam's creation had the same method, thus we deduce that the same occured with Adam.

Here is the argument:

Premise 1: If X and Y had the same method of creation, then the method X was created is identical to the method Y was created
Premise 2: X and Y had the same method of creation
Conclusion 1: Therefore, X and Y were created using identical methods
Premise 3: Method Z (slow process of creation in the womb) was used to create Y
Conclusion 2: Method Z was also used to create X

X= Would be Adam in the above argument
Y= Would be Jesus in the above argument
Z=Would be the method of creating from Dust, saying "Be" and allowing a slow process in the womb for the X and Y to develop.

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General Discussions / Re: Evolution

« on: September 21, 2015, 03:19:25 PM »

My question:

Why God would make such analogy?
Quran does not say:
          1 - "the example of Adam to Allah is like that of Jesus."
                rather it is quite the opposite
          2 - "the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam."
We all agree including Christians that Jesus/Isa developed in the womb, what is not explicit is the development of Adam in the womb, then the creation of Adam need analogy not Jesus. In order to explain that creation of Adam was similar to Jesus, then the verse must be like (1). Since it is not like (1), then my above interpretation is correct, it is a counter argument to divinity of Jesus/Isa, not a counter argument against Creationism.

I do not believe in what is written in the Hadith books regarding Adam's creation, because Quran does not give any reference to Hadith, rather Quran[29:20]^[1] gives our own observations and thus science as reference.

Peace and regards.

I don't think this verse is a counter argument against creationism. I think it is a counter argument to the divinity of Jesus. But is has nothing to do with whether or not they have biological fathers/mothers or not. Rather, it is to say that Adam And Jesus were both created by God's command out of earthly materials. How can Jesus be God if he is like Adam in that he was commanded to exist by God and made of earthly materials?

Now the question is, can this verse be shown to prove that the Quran does not argue for creationism? The answer is yes. When Allah says "Be" towards the formation of Jesus, did Jesus form instantly? Likewise, when Allah said "Be" towards the formation of Adam, why expect Adam to be formed instantly? Adam and Jesus' creation were similar. They both involved stages and steps. They both existed in wombs and so on. It may also be that Adam (like Jesus) did not have a father, but only had a mother. This is shown to be possible by science (getting pregnant without sperm or male involvement). https://cbhd.org/content/stem-cell-debate-are-parthenogenic-human-embryos-solution . Either way, in this very verse, the Quran also made it clear, that Adam was created in a long process and in a womb (just as Jesus was). Adam likely had a mother, though it is not clear whether he had a father.

Both Jesus and Adam shared a similar form of creation and God created them both from nothing and said "Be" and they were.

54

General Discussions / Re: Fragments of the world's oldest Koran

« on: September 15, 2015, 05:02:35 PM »

This is a really bad argument.

The age of the animal skin that the document was written on does not tell us the age of the document. It tells us the age of the animal skin...

It may just be that they erased earlier writings on the old animal skin and written a Quran on it...

Not only that, I don't see how historians can based on the age of the animal skin! It says: "It is believed that the Birmingham Koran was produced between 568AD and 645AD, while the dates usually given for prophet Muhammad are between 570AD and 632AD.". Carbon dating is not 100%, there is always a range of dates and they presented it. It doesn't appear that the range of dates they presented really predate the years Prophet Muhammad is believed to have lived. It may just be that the Birgminham Koran existed near 645 AD...

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General Discussions / Re: Evolution

« on: September 15, 2015, 04:51:28 PM »

I would also like to point you to 3 good verses that show how Allah's creation of humanity took time and perfection and proportioning.

(Quran 32:7) Allah is He who has made everything He created BETTER/Best, and He began the creation of the human (being) out of clay--> He made everything he created better. Evolution seems to explain the mechanism of perfecting God's creation. (Clay is a product of wet earth-Exactly what you are made of: Water and Earth.

What's even more fascinating about this verses is that Allah say he made all of his creation better from the original and perfected it. Notice how it says Allah began the creation of a human hinting at a process of human development.

(Quran 32,8) Then He made his posterity out of the extract of a liquid disdained.

^This verse comes right after the previous one. So AFTER human beings BEGAN forming,, our posterity comes from an extract of semen. This is hinting at sexual reproduction forming.

(Quran 32:9) Then He proportioned him and breathed into him from His [created] soul and made for you hearing and vision and hearts; little are you grateful.

^AFTER Allah made sexual reproduction, he proportioned us and given us vision/hearing/consciousness.

Allah BEGINS the process of creation, lets sexual reproduction happen, and then we get proportioned and achieve higher consciousness. Aren't these verses clear in their support of gradual creation of humans that was proportioned and perfected overtime?

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General Discussions / Re: Evolution

« on: September 15, 2015, 04:46:54 PM »

Salaam Joseph

I came across a topic in your website about evolution^[1]. I find it difficult to reconcile it with Quran[3:59]^[2]. I would like to know your opinion on this matter and interpretation of that verse.

Peace and regards.


^[1] http://quransmessage.com/articles/evolution%20FM3.htm
^[2] إِنَّ مَثَلَ عِيسَىٰ عِندَ اللَّهِ كَمَثَلِ آدَمَ ۖ خَلَقَهُ مِن تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ قَالَ لَهُ كُن فَيَكُونُ

Salam,

Quran 3:59 says: Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was.

So there are 2 theories as to how Adam was created:

• Adam was created instantaneously and had no mother and did not exist in a womb
• Adam was not created instantaneously and had parents and existed in a womb

If anything brother, the above verse is saying Adam's creation is similar to that of Jesus. Since Jesus developed in the womb, it is likely that Adam also developed in the womb. After all, their formation was similar. This is obviously contrary tot he hadith claims of how Adam was formed. Adam likely formed inside a womb just like Jesus as depicted in 3:59

So it seems to be that this verse is actually compatible with the view that Adam was NOT the first human. He was a human who was chosen to be the father of all upcoming humans who accepted the test of Allah.

57

General Discussions / Is refusing cancer treatment suicide?

« on: September 13, 2015, 06:48:48 AM »

I really do not want to suffer through chemotherapy and risk losing my cognitive functioning and muscular functioning. Chemo really destroys your body and your quality of life decreases after. I also secretly (deep down) hope to die, so I'm not sure if what I am doing is wrong in the sight of Allah.

Is it really obligatory for me to accept cancer treatment assuming I have the means to get treated (adequate health insurance)?

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General Discussions / Re: The Quran supports a Geocentric view of the universe?

« on: May 22, 2015, 12:41:56 PM »

I do apologize, everyone.

But none of the answers given were satisfying nor parsimonious. It seems like an elaborate scheme to save the accuracy of a very clear verse which like others in the Quran give the clear implication that night and day's motion is dependent on the sun and the moon's motion.

One argument mentioned here was that the that night and day orbiting in a swimming-like motion means the earth is spherical. It does not at all. The earth can be flat, and have a night and day orbiting in a swimming-like motion.

Consider the figure below:



Night and day are orbiting in a swimming like motion and the earth is flat in the above picture.

The second argument is that this verse is saying the Earth is moving around its axis because if the earth was flat and stationary, the night and day would not be continuously orbiting around the earth. This is again not a satisfactory answer. In the scenario of the above picture, the earth is stationary and night and day is continuously orbiting around the Earth.

Also Quran 36:40 is yet another example of how the Quran supports the scenario in the above picture (earth is flat and stationary, sun and moon move around the earth and night and day comes as the sun and moon move).

[Quran 36:40] It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor can the night outrun the day. All of them swim along in their orbits.

^This verse says the sun will not overtake the moon and then it goes on to say that night cannot outrun the day. Why again is the sun and moon mentioned with night and day? The most parsimonious explanation is the Quran is supporting an earth-centered view of the solar system. The sun and moon won't overtake each other so the night and day won't (because night and day are due to the sun and moon's motion) and so on.

Please do take this seriously and with enough intellectual honesty.

If God exists, we would not expect his revelation to be filled with such a severe error.

Again, I do apologize. My intent is gaining the most rational and parsimonious position, not an ad hoc and intellectually dishonest position. I seek only the most intellectually honest view, and it is not favoring Islam nor the Quran, nor theism.

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General Discussions / Re: The Quran supports a Geocentric view of the universe?

« on: May 14, 2015, 08:00:10 AM »

Peace Lobotomise.

When the "night and day are mentioned it means also "Earth ". i.e the verse/s is/are talking about earth .

 It is obviously emphasized in the verses that “night and day” also move in an orbit. The reference made to night and day in the Qoran is always related to the Earth’s night and day. In other words, what is actually stated in  these  verses is the fact that Earth also revolves in an orbit just like the sun and moon!

For a moment, think about the movement of the earth in the space. While the earth is revolving around the sun, night and day which always and together exist above the earth also revolve in an orbit around the sun. From this perspective, the verses have an extremely subtle expression.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Peace, Good Logic.

The problem is: it is not just about this verse. Throughout the Quran, the alternation of night and day is  always associated with the sun and Moon's movement only. This means those verses are implying a geocentric model of the universe!

Now with respect to Quran 21:33, I don't see how it is speaking of the Earth's motion too? The alternation of the night and day has nothing to do with the Earth in Quran 21:33. The problem is you were presupposing the motion of night and day to mean the Earth is moving-and I do not see that connection. Quran 21:33 can be parapharased as saying:

Look at the night and the day along with the sun and moon, they are pursuing a rounded course

The fact that the verse neglected to include the Earth in here is telling. Also the fact that the motion of the sun and moon are put next to the alternation night and the day implies that the author is painting a geocentric picture of the world. Is what I am saying here unreasonable because to me it sounds right?

Here is a GIF showing what actually happens: http://media.giphy.com/media/3o85xsLCxgzMQ3q0zC/giphy.gif

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General Discussions / Re: The Quran supports a Geocentric view of the universe?

« on: May 14, 2015, 02:00:58 AM »

Hello,

I think you may have misunderstood me, the argument is the fact that the Sun and Moon's orbits are almost always mentioned with the movement of night and day means that the author of the Quran was implying the the sun and the moon's orbit is the direct reason why we observe night and day. This is false, the Earth's orbit is the reason we observe night and day. And not once has the Quran mentioned the involvement of Earth's movement. This is telling.

Thanks
Lobotomize94