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#21
Discussions / Re: anti hadith resource idea
Last post by Wakas - April 18, 2025, 05:17:46 AMScientific errors in hadith:
wikiislam,net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Hadith
https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/2019/11/04/how-hadiths-contradict-science-and-reason/
e.g. (albeit some of these are non sahih bukhari/muslim)
1. The sun prostrates before the Throne after sunset
2. The sun rises between the horns of Satan
3. The sun sets in a spring of warm water
4. The sun moves around the Earth and stops a while after sunset
5. The gradations of strong natural objects are: mountain, iron, fire, water, wind, and man
6. God frightens people with eclipse
7. The moon produces its own light
8. There are giant goats in space
9. Earth rests on a whale
10. There is a huge gate to Heaven somewhere in the west
11. Nile and Euphrates rivers flow from heaven
12. Earthquakes in Najd region are accompanied by the rising of Satan's head
13. Thunder is a cloud-driving angel
14. Noon heat comes from hell-fire
15. No one can predict when it will rain
16. The first man was a 90 foot giant
17. Racial diversity and physical differences are due to different soils used to create Adam
18. Each embryological stage lasts 40 days
19. The gender of an embryo is assigned at a later stage
20. Saying 'God willing' before sex would guarantee a strong male child
21. A child resembles the parent who discharged first
22. Nobody knows a child's gender before its birth
23. Babies cry at birth because of Satan's touch
24. Birth marks are caused by the evil eye
25. Yawning is caused by Satan
26. You oversleep when Satan urinates in your ears
27. Satan sleeps in your nostrils during night
28. There is no infectious disease
29. Skin eruptions can be treated with spell
30. Looking at the sky during prayers leads to blindness
31. Fever is caused by the heat of hellfire
32. Love for worldly things causes blindness and deafness
33. Camel urine is a medicine
34. Black cumin cures all diseases
35. A housefly's wing cures diseases
36. Scorpion stings are cured by spell
37. Drinking honey cures diarrhoea
38. Water from truffles cures eye diseases
39. Cupping cures unknown diseases
40. Eating seven 'Ajwa dates protects from poisoning
41. The evil eye or nazar causes harm and can be prevented by incantation
42. Mankind's sins darkened the Black Stone
43. Crowing and braying indicate sights of angel and satan
44. Black dogs are devils
45. Monkeys practice stoning adulterers
46. Spinal bone never decays
47. Water is not polluted by dead dogs, menstrual clothes and rotten things
48. Non-Muslims have seven intestines while Muslims have one
49. All women are deficient in intelligence
50. A black spot appears on the heart of a sinning Muslim
51. Graves of true Muslims are widened to 70 cubits and bodies of hypocrites are squeezed
52. Jinns asked the Prophet for the remains of the human food
#####
contradictions in hadith
wikiislam,net/wiki/Contradictions_in_the_Hadith
https://astudyofquran.org/wp/10-the-implications-of-hadith-for-islam/10-3-ways-the-hadith-contradicts-the-quran/
https://asimiqbal2nd.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/contradictions.pdf
https://www.mohammedamin.com/Community_issues/How-reliable-are-hadith.html
https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234967648-bukhari-contradictions/
https://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/35221/how-can-seemingly-contradictory-ahadith-still-be-classified-as-sahih
https://qurantalk.gitbook.io/problematic-sahih-hadith/contradictions
http://quranic.org/84/
https://qurantalk.gitbook.io/hadith-refutation/list-of-problematic-sahih-hadith
wikiislam,net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Hadith
https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/2019/11/04/how-hadiths-contradict-science-and-reason/
e.g. (albeit some of these are non sahih bukhari/muslim)
1. The sun prostrates before the Throne after sunset
2. The sun rises between the horns of Satan
3. The sun sets in a spring of warm water
4. The sun moves around the Earth and stops a while after sunset
5. The gradations of strong natural objects are: mountain, iron, fire, water, wind, and man
6. God frightens people with eclipse
7. The moon produces its own light
8. There are giant goats in space
9. Earth rests on a whale
10. There is a huge gate to Heaven somewhere in the west
11. Nile and Euphrates rivers flow from heaven
12. Earthquakes in Najd region are accompanied by the rising of Satan's head
13. Thunder is a cloud-driving angel
14. Noon heat comes from hell-fire
15. No one can predict when it will rain
16. The first man was a 90 foot giant
17. Racial diversity and physical differences are due to different soils used to create Adam
18. Each embryological stage lasts 40 days
19. The gender of an embryo is assigned at a later stage
20. Saying 'God willing' before sex would guarantee a strong male child
21. A child resembles the parent who discharged first
22. Nobody knows a child's gender before its birth
23. Babies cry at birth because of Satan's touch
24. Birth marks are caused by the evil eye
25. Yawning is caused by Satan
26. You oversleep when Satan urinates in your ears
27. Satan sleeps in your nostrils during night
28. There is no infectious disease
29. Skin eruptions can be treated with spell
30. Looking at the sky during prayers leads to blindness
31. Fever is caused by the heat of hellfire
32. Love for worldly things causes blindness and deafness
33. Camel urine is a medicine
34. Black cumin cures all diseases
35. A housefly's wing cures diseases
36. Scorpion stings are cured by spell
37. Drinking honey cures diarrhoea
38. Water from truffles cures eye diseases
39. Cupping cures unknown diseases
40. Eating seven 'Ajwa dates protects from poisoning
41. The evil eye or nazar causes harm and can be prevented by incantation
42. Mankind's sins darkened the Black Stone
43. Crowing and braying indicate sights of angel and satan
44. Black dogs are devils
45. Monkeys practice stoning adulterers
46. Spinal bone never decays
47. Water is not polluted by dead dogs, menstrual clothes and rotten things
48. Non-Muslims have seven intestines while Muslims have one
49. All women are deficient in intelligence
50. A black spot appears on the heart of a sinning Muslim
51. Graves of true Muslims are widened to 70 cubits and bodies of hypocrites are squeezed
52. Jinns asked the Prophet for the remains of the human food
#####
contradictions in hadith
wikiislam,net/wiki/Contradictions_in_the_Hadith
https://astudyofquran.org/wp/10-the-implications-of-hadith-for-islam/10-3-ways-the-hadith-contradicts-the-quran/
https://asimiqbal2nd.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/contradictions.pdf
https://www.mohammedamin.com/Community_issues/How-reliable-are-hadith.html
https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234967648-bukhari-contradictions/
https://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/35221/how-can-seemingly-contradictory-ahadith-still-be-classified-as-sahih
https://qurantalk.gitbook.io/problematic-sahih-hadith/contradictions
http://quranic.org/84/
https://qurantalk.gitbook.io/hadith-refutation/list-of-problematic-sahih-hadith
#22
General Discussions / Qur’anic Gematria (Abjad Numer...
Last post by Ad Sep - April 12, 2025, 01:00:26 AMThis is the correct numerical values for Arabic Letters as deducted from the Complete Qr'an manuscript by Adnaan Alrefaii in his book, "The Grand Miracle"
كتاب المعجزة الكبرى م . عدنان الرفاعى
https://archive.org/details/quranic-gematria-abjad-numerals-for-arabic-letters
كتاب المعجزة الكبرى م . عدنان الرفاعى
https://archive.org/details/quranic-gematria-abjad-numerals-for-arabic-letters
#23
General Discussions / Qur'anic Chakras and the Hidde...
Last post by Ad Sep - April 04, 2025, 11:56:20 PMThe Hidden Sciences of the Qur'anic Nuranic (Light) (disjoined) Letters
الشكرات القرءانية والعلوم الخفية للحروف النورانية
The research needs a collective effort to unveil the total 114 Chakras built in the human body that Allah blew unto it from His Spirit (Rouh).
As a starting point: a very brief article based on the Book The Grand Miracle by Adnaan Alrefai:
for Qur'anic corresponding numerics of Arabic alphabets system (not the old Greek one),
ﻛﺘﺎب-المﻌﺠﺰة اﻟﻜبرى-ﻋﺪنان اﻟﺮﻓﺎﻋﻲ
https://archive.org/details/the-human-q-chakra-system
Salam
فَسَوْفَ يَأتِي الله بِقَوْمٍ يُحِبُّهُمْ[ويُحِبُّونَهُ
Peace & Love (from Allah)
الشكرات القرءانية والعلوم الخفية للحروف النورانية
The research needs a collective effort to unveil the total 114 Chakras built in the human body that Allah blew unto it from His Spirit (Rouh).
As a starting point: a very brief article based on the Book The Grand Miracle by Adnaan Alrefai:
for Qur'anic corresponding numerics of Arabic alphabets system (not the old Greek one),
ﻛﺘﺎب-المﻌﺠﺰة اﻟﻜبرى-ﻋﺪنان اﻟﺮﻓﺎﻋﻲ
https://archive.org/details/the-human-q-chakra-system
Salam
فَسَوْفَ يَأتِي الله بِقَوْمٍ يُحِبُّهُمْ[ويُحِبُّونَهُ
Peace & Love (from Allah)
#24
General Discussions / Re: God Testing Humanity: Crys...
Last post by Ad Sep - April 04, 2025, 11:17:55 PMWho we are?
The Human Q-Chakra System
https://archive.org/search?query=creator%3A%22Adel+E.+Hammad%22
Peace & Love
The Human Q-Chakra System
https://archive.org/search?query=creator%3A%22Adel+E.+Hammad%22
Peace & Love
#25
Discussions / Re: Peace between people
Last post by fireheart47 - March 21, 2025, 02:47:58 AMDear people,
One reason I still feel Christian is the story of Jesus in the Bible, which has been very influential in the formation of my character. Of all the aspects of Jesus in the Gospel stories, the most important seem to be John the Baptist's and later Jesus' emphasis on forgiveness.
As a child, I would do a lot of wrong things, things against the rules and especially the Golden Rule. My parents and extended family would forgive me and show me mercy when they would punish me to teach and guide me. This was especially important when I was sick with psychiatric medication and reacted viscerally to every situation, because I wasn't capable of handling strict criticism. My friends also overlooked my flaws and tendencies. I have been the benefactor of forgiveness.
Forgiveness
Yet, forgiving is hard. Many times I struggle to forgive others. On Instagram I was recommended a video by a person named Guru Singh, and he said:
This revolutionized how I perceived forgiveness, because before I had thought forgiveness was a moral requirement expected of me. Yet, afterwards, I realized how forgiveness can be a mental tool to achieve enlightenment and higher consciousness. For me, this made forgiveness seem powerful and something someone needs to attain to achieve mastery over life. It also aligned with the idea of Jesus as a holy gifted person, who had extraordinary capacities.
However, I believe we can be like Jesus or imitate Jesus, or even better, imitate the characteristics of God (names of God, stories, observations), which I believe Jesus did, and that's what the Bible suggests we try to do (Gospel of Matthew 5:45,Gospel of John 14:6, Ephesians 5:1, 1 Thessalonians 2:14). I've learned we should be careful how we accomplish that, and be open-minded to new ideas in the process of life. Because trying to be good sometimes isn't enough, and we should know what to do or rely on others who know better. Hardship and difficult life experiences can sometimes inform people.
Forgiveness has helped me live with others in peace, and has rewarded me with stable family life, friendships, and opportunities. When something happened against me, I would try my best to let it go and move forward. However, I often struggle to share my frustrations and grow resentful instead of being authentic, because the conflict it creates cannot be easily resolved. I believe this is necessary to a certain degree, yet it can become a problem if one lives a life unsatisfied. All people have flaws, and today in the world, because of systemic issues, we often do not operate at our optimal state of mind and body.
Values and shame
Many people impose these higher values and big great ideas on others, and enforce them, making people feel bad they can't forgive or bad they can't be grateful. This is worse than not forgiving and not being grateful in my opinion. It is like a body builder shaming a frail person, because their muscles can't lift the weight, rather than training them on lighter weights they can achieve and become stronger.
Scriptures
From my studies it seems there are many perspectives on the meaning of forgiveness. In Hebrew, Greek, Syriac, Arabic, and English, the word for "forgiveness" has a unique implication or connotation, which offers wisdom to how it is achieved.
There are many stories of forgiveness in the TaNaKh, such as the Mark of Cain (protect them from vengeance by cursing the avenger a 7-fold curse), Joseph's brothers sold him to slavery (sees how the wrong thing led him to his powerful position and does not seek vengeance, rather gives land to family), and Leviticus law to forgive your neighbor and to not avenge, and many more...
I've learned forgiveness is also an important value in the Qur'an and in Islam, and it is one of the names of Allah.
Please discern truth from falsehood, I make mistakes, I don't know all the answers. I write these messages, because it is what helps me feel adequate, worthy, powerful, and productive, and because I believe it will be beneficial somehow. May Allah guide us.
Can anyone please share more about Qur'an or TaNakh and its similarities to the concepts I've shared in the previous topics?
Sincerely,
Fireheart47
One reason I still feel Christian is the story of Jesus in the Bible, which has been very influential in the formation of my character. Of all the aspects of Jesus in the Gospel stories, the most important seem to be John the Baptist's and later Jesus' emphasis on forgiveness.
As a child, I would do a lot of wrong things, things against the rules and especially the Golden Rule. My parents and extended family would forgive me and show me mercy when they would punish me to teach and guide me. This was especially important when I was sick with psychiatric medication and reacted viscerally to every situation, because I wasn't capable of handling strict criticism. My friends also overlooked my flaws and tendencies. I have been the benefactor of forgiveness.
Forgiveness
Yet, forgiving is hard. Many times I struggle to forgive others. On Instagram I was recommended a video by a person named Guru Singh, and he said:
Quote"Forgiveness doesn't make something permissible, it causes us to detach ourselves from the wrongs of the past, so we can live in the present moment."
This revolutionized how I perceived forgiveness, because before I had thought forgiveness was a moral requirement expected of me. Yet, afterwards, I realized how forgiveness can be a mental tool to achieve enlightenment and higher consciousness. For me, this made forgiveness seem powerful and something someone needs to attain to achieve mastery over life. It also aligned with the idea of Jesus as a holy gifted person, who had extraordinary capacities.
However, I believe we can be like Jesus or imitate Jesus, or even better, imitate the characteristics of God (names of God, stories, observations), which I believe Jesus did, and that's what the Bible suggests we try to do (Gospel of Matthew 5:45,Gospel of John 14:6, Ephesians 5:1, 1 Thessalonians 2:14). I've learned we should be careful how we accomplish that, and be open-minded to new ideas in the process of life. Because trying to be good sometimes isn't enough, and we should know what to do or rely on others who know better. Hardship and difficult life experiences can sometimes inform people.
Forgiveness has helped me live with others in peace, and has rewarded me with stable family life, friendships, and opportunities. When something happened against me, I would try my best to let it go and move forward. However, I often struggle to share my frustrations and grow resentful instead of being authentic, because the conflict it creates cannot be easily resolved. I believe this is necessary to a certain degree, yet it can become a problem if one lives a life unsatisfied. All people have flaws, and today in the world, because of systemic issues, we often do not operate at our optimal state of mind and body.
Values and shame
Many people impose these higher values and big great ideas on others, and enforce them, making people feel bad they can't forgive or bad they can't be grateful. This is worse than not forgiving and not being grateful in my opinion. It is like a body builder shaming a frail person, because their muscles can't lift the weight, rather than training them on lighter weights they can achieve and become stronger.
Scriptures
From my studies it seems there are many perspectives on the meaning of forgiveness. In Hebrew, Greek, Syriac, Arabic, and English, the word for "forgiveness" has a unique implication or connotation, which offers wisdom to how it is achieved.
There are many stories of forgiveness in the TaNaKh, such as the Mark of Cain (protect them from vengeance by cursing the avenger a 7-fold curse), Joseph's brothers sold him to slavery (sees how the wrong thing led him to his powerful position and does not seek vengeance, rather gives land to family), and Leviticus law to forgive your neighbor and to not avenge, and many more...
I've learned forgiveness is also an important value in the Qur'an and in Islam, and it is one of the names of Allah.
Please discern truth from falsehood, I make mistakes, I don't know all the answers. I write these messages, because it is what helps me feel adequate, worthy, powerful, and productive, and because I believe it will be beneficial somehow. May Allah guide us.
Can anyone please share more about Qur'an or TaNakh and its similarities to the concepts I've shared in the previous topics?
Sincerely,
Fireheart47
#26
Discussions / Re: Peace between people
Last post by fireheart47 - March 18, 2025, 01:59:38 PMDear people,
Resist War
A cousin created a poster and it reminds me that it's important to resist war. It wasn't until I studied horticulture, and took courses in plant sciences and soil sciences that I realized how destructive and terrible wars like WW2 were.
Before then I used to think it looked cool and wouldn't think about how destructive it was. Someone with connections to US govt told me once how WW1 was terrible and how inventors and geniuses die in wars, people who could've made the world a better place. WW1 created trauma for many of the problems of WW2, and WW2 polluted environment, left unexploded munitions over Egypt, Europe, and created divisions between similar ethnic groups, which persist today.
Today it frustrates and saddens me that countries fight and destroy people and resources. For example: they pollute the fertile soil chernozem, which took thousands of years and more to form.
War destroys the body and hurts sensitive parts of the body the most, like our minds and our reproductive systems. The military has many other responsibilities not only war. In times of catastrophes, the military helps organize resources and help people.
One of the Bible verses that surprised me the most is Psalms Chapter 46.
It starts off with one of many examples of earthquakes in Bible. I first thought to look for this topic, because of a video I watched about the African tectonic plate on YouTube from black African people (even though I don't agree with everything they say):
https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=ikqbP81gFes
Israel
I believe this tectonically active geography is one of the reasons for the name Israel, which can mean "to contend with God", like how Jacob in the Bible wrestled against a messenger and received that name. There is some linguistic similarity between Jacob and Aqaba. I believe these stories and names may be related to the tectonic fault between the African tectonic plate and Arabian tectonic plate, between the countries of Palestine/Israel and Jordan. The Force is acting against us at times and we must contend with its power over us together. From my perspective, "Israel" is a word with a deeper concept, which describes humanity's survival/cooperation situation in this world.
In the Americas, because of the colonization of the indigenous people, we have lost knowledge of the natural disasters and qualities of the land. In the US state of Washington, they used Native American deity myths to inspire scientific research and discovered ancient earthquakes and tsunamis. In certain regions like Chile and California, where the risk of earthquakes is obvious, they have many experts who've learned to live with these limits.
In Arabic, this word is different and there are many reasons why. In languages it is common for words to change spelling, because of pronunciation, because most words are spoken before they are written. One story, which I believe influenced this difference is the pronunciation of "shibboleth".
Psalms 46:2-3 (BSB, BibleHub)
There are also mentions of earthquakes in the Qur'an, however I do not know them well.
What surprised me the most about this chapter is that I belong to a group that emails me Bible chapters each day and have been thinking about the topic of earthquakes, because of YouTube video. Also I see news of war in Palestine. And in this chapter it talked against war too:
Psalms 46:8-9
Although some translations confusingly misguide (because shields are protective mechanism, see etymology of the word "Panzer"):
The chariots of Egypt were considered the best. This is where the cult of Set was popular with Pharoah kings like Seti and so on. Yet, it was the observer Horus that was important. Believers in Allah were simpler and didn't struggle between worshipping archetypes, although some may place more importance on certain things like sun or moon, we must remind ourselves with our intelligence and our faith what controls and gives the sun it's life giving qualities and what prevents its life taking power, or what put the moon in its place so perfectly in geological time for a sentient species to observe a solar eclipse and to study the corona of its solar system's star. Allah.
Psalm 20:7
In the story of Jeremiah, the prophet Jeremiah tells the powerful people of Jerusalem that they're going to be conquered and need to surrender to survive. The king was so mad they burnt the scroll and they had to make a new one. This is an example of how one city continued to exist, because they allowed people to take it over, because they valued peace over war.
The worldview of Islam is of Dar Al-Islam vs. Dar Al-Harb. I believe if we look at modern maps and statistics, we will see where those regions truly are, and why it became that way.
In Ancient Egypt the desertification of the Nile and conflict caused changes in society's organization and consumption of resources, which spread to Greeks and Romans. This happened before they became Christian, yet it continued even after.
According to the book Environmental Problems of Greeks and Romans, the Mediterranean used to have forests, and the ashes where the pottery was baked show which trees were consumed first and then last ones up in the hills, which contributed to soil erosion.
Between WW1 and WW2 the USA dealt with similar problems and employed people through an organization called CCC, which built the headquarters of our amazing national parks, like our amazing USFS. Because of over consumption of forests, there were forest fires and the Ottoman Empire gave financial aid to US states of Wisconsin and Minnesota. Yet, forests like those of Native American Menominee tribe persisted, because of their management strategies.
With the wisdom of the holy books (TaNaKh, Bible, Qur'an) we can learn to find peace and learn about more things and live a better life, and give a better life to others.
Of course, war is not the only problem in society. In times of peace, women and men are enslaved, people still can hurt each other. Again, the fundamentals of these books guide us that this is wrong, and history shows that people who do this suffer from the consequences of their actions in complicated ways (ex: societal dysfunction from dietary changes due to sugar cane slavery, generational trauma due to sexual exploitation, psychological dysfunction, and faulty systems of healing people based on chemicals, not sympathy, empathy and compassion taught in the Bible).
Many think the Bible is full of war, and that is unfortunately a reality. However, there's a book with a lot of war and genocide called Book of Samuel and this is how it starts. This is what the scribes write before they learn about their warrior ancestors, this is what the students learn:
1 Samuel 2:2-4, a segment of Hannah's Prayer (NIV, BibleGateway)
Peace,
Fireheart47
Resist War
A cousin created a poster and it reminds me that it's important to resist war. It wasn't until I studied horticulture, and took courses in plant sciences and soil sciences that I realized how destructive and terrible wars like WW2 were.
Before then I used to think it looked cool and wouldn't think about how destructive it was. Someone with connections to US govt told me once how WW1 was terrible and how inventors and geniuses die in wars, people who could've made the world a better place. WW1 created trauma for many of the problems of WW2, and WW2 polluted environment, left unexploded munitions over Egypt, Europe, and created divisions between similar ethnic groups, which persist today.
Today it frustrates and saddens me that countries fight and destroy people and resources. For example: they pollute the fertile soil chernozem, which took thousands of years and more to form.
War destroys the body and hurts sensitive parts of the body the most, like our minds and our reproductive systems. The military has many other responsibilities not only war. In times of catastrophes, the military helps organize resources and help people.
One of the Bible verses that surprised me the most is Psalms Chapter 46.
It starts off with one of many examples of earthquakes in Bible. I first thought to look for this topic, because of a video I watched about the African tectonic plate on YouTube from black African people (even though I don't agree with everything they say):
https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=ikqbP81gFes
Israel
I believe this tectonically active geography is one of the reasons for the name Israel, which can mean "to contend with God", like how Jacob in the Bible wrestled against a messenger and received that name. There is some linguistic similarity between Jacob and Aqaba. I believe these stories and names may be related to the tectonic fault between the African tectonic plate and Arabian tectonic plate, between the countries of Palestine/Israel and Jordan. The Force is acting against us at times and we must contend with its power over us together. From my perspective, "Israel" is a word with a deeper concept, which describes humanity's survival/cooperation situation in this world.
In the Americas, because of the colonization of the indigenous people, we have lost knowledge of the natural disasters and qualities of the land. In the US state of Washington, they used Native American deity myths to inspire scientific research and discovered ancient earthquakes and tsunamis. In certain regions like Chile and California, where the risk of earthquakes is obvious, they have many experts who've learned to live with these limits.
In Arabic, this word is different and there are many reasons why. In languages it is common for words to change spelling, because of pronunciation, because most words are spoken before they are written. One story, which I believe influenced this difference is the pronunciation of "shibboleth".
Psalms 46:2-3 (BSB, BibleHub)
Quote2 Therefore we will not fear,
though the earth is transformed
and the mountains are toppled
into the depths of the seas,
3 though their waters roar and foam
and the mountains quake in the surge.
There are also mentions of earthquakes in the Qur'an, however I do not know them well.
What surprised me the most about this chapter is that I belong to a group that emails me Bible chapters each day and have been thinking about the topic of earthquakes, because of YouTube video. Also I see news of war in Palestine. And in this chapter it talked against war too:
Psalms 46:8-9
Quote8 Come, behold the works of the LORD, what desolations he hath made in the earth.
9 He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire.
Although some translations confusingly misguide (because shields are protective mechanism, see etymology of the word "Panzer"):
QuoteHe burns the shields in the fire.
The chariots of Egypt were considered the best. This is where the cult of Set was popular with Pharoah kings like Seti and so on. Yet, it was the observer Horus that was important. Believers in Allah were simpler and didn't struggle between worshipping archetypes, although some may place more importance on certain things like sun or moon, we must remind ourselves with our intelligence and our faith what controls and gives the sun it's life giving qualities and what prevents its life taking power, or what put the moon in its place so perfectly in geological time for a sentient species to observe a solar eclipse and to study the corona of its solar system's star. Allah.
Psalm 20:7
Quote7 Some trust in chariots and some in horses,
but we trust in the name of the Lord our God.
In the story of Jeremiah, the prophet Jeremiah tells the powerful people of Jerusalem that they're going to be conquered and need to surrender to survive. The king was so mad they burnt the scroll and they had to make a new one. This is an example of how one city continued to exist, because they allowed people to take it over, because they valued peace over war.
The worldview of Islam is of Dar Al-Islam vs. Dar Al-Harb. I believe if we look at modern maps and statistics, we will see where those regions truly are, and why it became that way.
In Ancient Egypt the desertification of the Nile and conflict caused changes in society's organization and consumption of resources, which spread to Greeks and Romans. This happened before they became Christian, yet it continued even after.
According to the book Environmental Problems of Greeks and Romans, the Mediterranean used to have forests, and the ashes where the pottery was baked show which trees were consumed first and then last ones up in the hills, which contributed to soil erosion.
Between WW1 and WW2 the USA dealt with similar problems and employed people through an organization called CCC, which built the headquarters of our amazing national parks, like our amazing USFS. Because of over consumption of forests, there were forest fires and the Ottoman Empire gave financial aid to US states of Wisconsin and Minnesota. Yet, forests like those of Native American Menominee tribe persisted, because of their management strategies.
With the wisdom of the holy books (TaNaKh, Bible, Qur'an) we can learn to find peace and learn about more things and live a better life, and give a better life to others.
Of course, war is not the only problem in society. In times of peace, women and men are enslaved, people still can hurt each other. Again, the fundamentals of these books guide us that this is wrong, and history shows that people who do this suffer from the consequences of their actions in complicated ways (ex: societal dysfunction from dietary changes due to sugar cane slavery, generational trauma due to sexual exploitation, psychological dysfunction, and faulty systems of healing people based on chemicals, not sympathy, empathy and compassion taught in the Bible).
Many think the Bible is full of war, and that is unfortunately a reality. However, there's a book with a lot of war and genocide called Book of Samuel and this is how it starts. This is what the scribes write before they learn about their warrior ancestors, this is what the students learn:
1 Samuel 2:2-4, a segment of Hannah's Prayer (NIV, BibleGateway)
Quote2 "There is no one holy like the Lord;
there is no one besides you;
there is no Rock like our God.
3 "Do not keep talking so proudly
or let your mouth speak such arrogance,
for the Lord is a God who knows,
and by him deeds are weighed.
4 "The bows of the warriors are broken,
but those who stumbled are armed with strength.
Peace,
Fireheart47
#27
Discussions / Peace between people
Last post by fireheart47 - March 17, 2025, 07:38:27 AMDear QM Forum,
Warning
In certain circumstances it can be dangerous to repeat the information I share with you all. I'm a privileged person, who can write about these topics without immediate consequences. Please be mindful of this.
Making peace with People of the Book
Due to various feelings and ideas, I'd like to share some scripture and ideas, which could influence how we perceive people from different religious groups and interact with them.
Surah al-Ma'idah 5:51
Sahih Intl.
Useful list of translations into English: https://academyofislam.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/English-Quran-Translations_Mar2024.pdf
My faith
Since I began to study Islam, I have felt Christian and at some point after reading K Ahren's Christliches im Quran I felt as if I could be Christian and Muslim. After chatting with people, other muslims insisted that I was not muslim, because my beliefs differed from the main narrative (ex: critical of Hajj to Mecca, and critical of holy texts). Still, I feel as if I am Muslim and Christian, that is how I would categorize myself if I had to describe my faith.
Even so, after reading Gospels and other books (New Testament), some of the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament), and some of the Qur'an, I find wisdom in these texts, however I cannot agree with them entirely. I view them as books from cultures in certain part of the world, which contain truths about our world and its source, and how to live a good life in harmony with others, healthy lifestyles, and awareness of God. Yet they also contain seeds of destruction, which have caused humans to kill each other and to destroy this unique planet, the greatest contradiction.
My faith is not defined by its total adherence and obedience, it is defined by my desire to find the positive attributes (wisdom, truth, heritage, commonalities) of troublesome books and ideas, in order to seek God, make peace, and to make sense of life.
Surah al-Ma'idah 5:51
When I read this verse, I remind myself that Prophet Muhammed began to recite the Qur'an ~600 years after Jesus. At this time, Judaism, the religion of Judah, the surviving tribal power in charge of the central temple in Jerusalem (together with Tribe of Benjamin), was the organized religion. The Christians, on the other hand, were a sect, which formed out of a conflict between a prophet with differing thoughts/words and actions (ex: recurring use of word "Father", not following Sabbath rules, etc...). However, even so, Jesus is Jewish, from Judah (Gospel of John 4:9). Jesus is quoted preaching the idea of the Kingdom of God, and I believe it was a metaphor used to describe peace between people, when the Kingdom of Judah was being destroyed by the Romans and by their violent conflict with revolutionaries, patriots, zealots, etc...
Gospel of Matthew 12:24-28 (BSB, BibleHub)
What is going on in the story? The religious authorities are unfairly condemning Jesus, and he's giving a rebuttal, which explains their sin against him. That's is explained here later on:
Gospel of Matthew 12:
And so, with many new words, metaphors, and ideas, the strict religious people could not accept Jesus even though he healed sick people and did good things. Even so, today there are strict Christian religious people, who hurt people in pursuit of their interpretations of the Kingdom of God, as a political physical entity (1,000 Year Kingdom), as suggested in the Book of Revelation.
Gospel of Luke 17:20-21
The article below gives many examples of Christian doctrine, which has its roots in metaphors used in Jewish scripture and Hebrew language.
Goraya, Azhar. "Jesus, the 'Son of God' – The Historical Context". The Review of Religions. https://www.reviewofreligions.org/27744/jesus-son-of-god-historical-context-long-read/
The article below gives many examples of Jewish religious authorities who defended and supported Jesus.
Turnage, Marc. "The Pharisees in the Book of Acts". Enrichment Journal. Assemblies of God. https://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/Issues/2015/Spring-2015/The-Pharisees-in-the-Book-of-Acts
These ideas are doctrine in the Christian religion and few people know their origin.
In conclusion, from my perspective, the Ayah in the Qur'an warns people that becoming allies with people from these religions could compromise their understanding of their faith, because these religions were the established and organized religions at the time, which organized around doctrine and dogma, like organized religions today.
Antagonism
Today, on YouTube, people fight and condemn each other's religions. They point out flaws and condemn the entire religion, instead of finding the connections and similarities. For example, they'll criticize Suhoor and Iftar meals, and make Islam appear glutinous, when not all people are wealthy, nor can afford such meals, or may benefit necessarily from such a special event in the year. Others example could be how people criticize the concept of the Trinity, even when not all Christians believe in the trinity, yet in doing so, it creates an opposition, and makes more Christians feel obligated to believe in the trinity.
Even these antagonistic people can have some truth in their criticism, yet without mercy and compassion, it is misleading and destructive. Instead of giving truth to show the true meaning of ideas or their original context, we are prone to criticize and detract from what other people say, leaving them feeling angry, hurt, powerless, and unnecessarily ashamed.
Against Muslims
When I read the Qur'an, I find many things which trouble me and cause me to lose faith. This also happens when I read the Bible. Sometimes, I feel this way when I watch people on YouTube, or see how dogmatic and indoctrinated people are, choosing to value obedience over wisdom and its benefits. However, I remind myself of the original inspirations, which caused me to believe: the words (salam, 'alim), the origins (travel between Syria/Judea/Arabia/Sheba), the stories (Moses, Jesus, Hud), the ideas (Oneness, mercy). I remind myself of the idea that Prophet Muhammed miraculously recited ancient stories, which give important context to what had developed out of the Christian and the Jewish people. Many people talk about Islam as if its a new religion, yet it is rooted in concepts, which appear older in form than the concepts written in the Kingdom of Judah (ilah, Allah).
The article below talks about the Arabic origins of the holy name of God YHWH, which is traditionally referred to as Adonai by Jewish people.
Knohl, Israel. "YHWH: The Original Arabic Meaning of the Name". The Torah.com. https://www.thetorah.com/article/yhwh-the-original-arabic-meaning-of-the-name
Hebrew, Greek, Arabic
If you search "Dukhrana analysis" on DuckDuckGo together with a Gospel verse (ex: Dukhrana analysis Matthew 5:9) you can study the translation of the Greek Bible into Aramaic, which contains words similar to Arabic. The Greek Bible was translated into Greek inside the minds of people, who spoke Aramaic. So we must have faith about what they meant:
https://www.dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=Matthew+5:9&source=ubs
For comparison:
Surah al-'Ankabut 29:69
Sahih Intl, Islamicity
Acts 11:25-30
The verse above is very important for me, because it reminds me that long ago, there was no such thing as "Christian". It is a label, a category, created to classify and distinguish people. It also reminds me that there were prophets, like Prophet Agabus among them, who prophesied. For me, this is a reason why every Christian scholar should try to find truths in the Qur'an and to study it, and have compassion towards Muslims, and to consider Muslim beliefs and traditions, as a Christian would want a Jewish person to do it to their religion, or any other group.
Groups and religions
Are all groups the same? No. If you go into one group, they'll tell you to think ABC and do XYZ, and if you don't they might at best treat you differently. That's why I like to worship alone and have relationships based on things outside of religious affiliation and ideas.
When meeting strangers in an informal setting, there is a chance to show sympathy, empathy, and compassion, instead of creating an impromptu philosophical debate or judging them because of how they're dressed. This is difficult for me, because I love to talk about philosophical ideas to people, and am not always the most sympathetic, empathetic, or compassionate person.
I believe the simple truth that unites the Abrahamic religions is in the books. Please help me and others, and continue to search for better examples:
Judaism: The name YHWH explains an attribute of God, which is the upmost important when approaching the religion: true love/passion behind all existence.
Christianity: The two laws ascribed to Jesus explain the foundation of religious discipline. It allows people to become part of the religion and it sets the standard for the implementation of all other laws.
This is important. Consider what has been occurring in USA, since many presidents ago (Bush, Obama, Biden with Title 42, Trump with ICE round-ups). Illegal immigrants are being deported, put into facilities, and managed by government. Many are mistreated Native Americans of Latino origin, which struggle in USA, Mexico and other countries. The law says they are illegal, and so the supporters of deportation will say, "They committed a crime coming here illegally." This is technically true. However, to deport a small number of people is one thing, yet to deport millions involves a logistical risk to health, human rights, and families, that make the application of this law unjust. In Germany, the Jewish people were also deported (Auswanderung, die Deportationen) , and know one knew exactly where they went afterwards, even though they heard rumors.
Matthew 22:36-40
Islam: Islam is more than just a religious category, it is an idea, a concept, which is not translated into English. Islam is a transliteration of an Arabic word. It is now treated like a religion, like its own category, and we should respect that the same way we respect other categories. It is necessary and unavoidable outcome of how we think and work with the world, yet we can also remind ourselves of why that is so.
Surah al-Bayyinah 98:5
Conclusion
Traditions, organized religion, they all can have wisdom and benefit. Yet there are reasons why people oppose them, especially when they are enforced in a way that hurts a person irreparably. We can study religions and find connections to inspire people to treat each other better when they encounter each other, NOT so they all join one global religion that's a mix of everything.
Even though many emotional and empathetic people invent new religions and ideas, the issues described in the Bible of traditional people vs. good non-traditional people is a constant struggle, no matter what religion. I believe we should promote people to focus on themselves as the books say we should, and like Ghandi said, "Be the change we want to see in the world."
Surah Maryam 19:36-37, (Sahih Intl, Islamicity)
Sincerely,
Fireheart47
P.S. The name Fireheart47 is made up name. Fireheart (Fyreheart) was a nickname I used when I used to play MoH:SH as a kid. I don't remember why I chose that name then. I don't play FPS games anymore, did a couple months ago, instead I like to play THPS2. This nickname stuck with me, because of a drawing of a heart with wings in a book I thought was sort of scary called Conquering the Beast Within: How I Fought Depression and Won... and How You Can Too . The number 47 was one of my favorite numbers, because it was a channel on TV I used to watch as a kid. I needed to invent a new nickname, so this was easy to remember.
Warning
In certain circumstances it can be dangerous to repeat the information I share with you all. I'm a privileged person, who can write about these topics without immediate consequences. Please be mindful of this.
Making peace with People of the Book
Due to various feelings and ideas, I'd like to share some scripture and ideas, which could influence how we perceive people from different religious groups and interact with them.
Surah al-Ma'idah 5:51
Quoteيَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ لَا تَتَّخِذُوا۟ ٱلْيَهُودَ وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰٓ أَوْلِيَآءَ بَعْضُهُمْ أَوْلِيَآءُ بَعْضٍ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّهُم مِّنكُمْ فَإِنَّهُۥ مِنْهُمْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ لَا يَهْدِى ٱلْقَوْمَ ٱلظَّـٰلِمِينَ
Sahih Intl.
QuoteO you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.
Useful list of translations into English: https://academyofislam.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/English-Quran-Translations_Mar2024.pdf
My faith
Since I began to study Islam, I have felt Christian and at some point after reading K Ahren's Christliches im Quran I felt as if I could be Christian and Muslim. After chatting with people, other muslims insisted that I was not muslim, because my beliefs differed from the main narrative (ex: critical of Hajj to Mecca, and critical of holy texts). Still, I feel as if I am Muslim and Christian, that is how I would categorize myself if I had to describe my faith.
Even so, after reading Gospels and other books (New Testament), some of the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament), and some of the Qur'an, I find wisdom in these texts, however I cannot agree with them entirely. I view them as books from cultures in certain part of the world, which contain truths about our world and its source, and how to live a good life in harmony with others, healthy lifestyles, and awareness of God. Yet they also contain seeds of destruction, which have caused humans to kill each other and to destroy this unique planet, the greatest contradiction.
My faith is not defined by its total adherence and obedience, it is defined by my desire to find the positive attributes (wisdom, truth, heritage, commonalities) of troublesome books and ideas, in order to seek God, make peace, and to make sense of life.
Surah al-Ma'idah 5:51
When I read this verse, I remind myself that Prophet Muhammed began to recite the Qur'an ~600 years after Jesus. At this time, Judaism, the religion of Judah, the surviving tribal power in charge of the central temple in Jerusalem (together with Tribe of Benjamin), was the organized religion. The Christians, on the other hand, were a sect, which formed out of a conflict between a prophet with differing thoughts/words and actions (ex: recurring use of word "Father", not following Sabbath rules, etc...). However, even so, Jesus is Jewish, from Judah (Gospel of John 4:9). Jesus is quoted preaching the idea of the Kingdom of God, and I believe it was a metaphor used to describe peace between people, when the Kingdom of Judah was being destroyed by the Romans and by their violent conflict with revolutionaries, patriots, zealots, etc...
Gospel of Matthew 12:24-28 (BSB, BibleHub)
Quote24 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "Only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, does this man drive out demons."
25 Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid waste, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28 But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
What is going on in the story? The religious authorities are unfairly condemning Jesus, and he's giving a rebuttal, which explains their sin against him. That's is explained here later on:
Gospel of Matthew 12:
Quote36 But I tell you that men will give an account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."
And so, with many new words, metaphors, and ideas, the strict religious people could not accept Jesus even though he healed sick people and did good things. Even so, today there are strict Christian religious people, who hurt people in pursuit of their interpretations of the Kingdom of God, as a political physical entity (1,000 Year Kingdom), as suggested in the Book of Revelation.
Gospel of Luke 17:20-21
Quote20 When asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God will not come with observable signs. 21 Nor will people say, 'Look, here it is,' or 'There it is.' For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst.
The article below gives many examples of Christian doctrine, which has its roots in metaphors used in Jewish scripture and Hebrew language.
Goraya, Azhar. "Jesus, the 'Son of God' – The Historical Context". The Review of Religions. https://www.reviewofreligions.org/27744/jesus-son-of-god-historical-context-long-read/
The article below gives many examples of Jewish religious authorities who defended and supported Jesus.
Turnage, Marc. "The Pharisees in the Book of Acts". Enrichment Journal. Assemblies of God. https://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/Issues/2015/Spring-2015/The-Pharisees-in-the-Book-of-Acts
These ideas are doctrine in the Christian religion and few people know their origin.
In conclusion, from my perspective, the Ayah in the Qur'an warns people that becoming allies with people from these religions could compromise their understanding of their faith, because these religions were the established and organized religions at the time, which organized around doctrine and dogma, like organized religions today.
Antagonism
Today, on YouTube, people fight and condemn each other's religions. They point out flaws and condemn the entire religion, instead of finding the connections and similarities. For example, they'll criticize Suhoor and Iftar meals, and make Islam appear glutinous, when not all people are wealthy, nor can afford such meals, or may benefit necessarily from such a special event in the year. Others example could be how people criticize the concept of the Trinity, even when not all Christians believe in the trinity, yet in doing so, it creates an opposition, and makes more Christians feel obligated to believe in the trinity.
Even these antagonistic people can have some truth in their criticism, yet without mercy and compassion, it is misleading and destructive. Instead of giving truth to show the true meaning of ideas or their original context, we are prone to criticize and detract from what other people say, leaving them feeling angry, hurt, powerless, and unnecessarily ashamed.
Against Muslims
When I read the Qur'an, I find many things which trouble me and cause me to lose faith. This also happens when I read the Bible. Sometimes, I feel this way when I watch people on YouTube, or see how dogmatic and indoctrinated people are, choosing to value obedience over wisdom and its benefits. However, I remind myself of the original inspirations, which caused me to believe: the words (salam, 'alim), the origins (travel between Syria/Judea/Arabia/Sheba), the stories (Moses, Jesus, Hud), the ideas (Oneness, mercy). I remind myself of the idea that Prophet Muhammed miraculously recited ancient stories, which give important context to what had developed out of the Christian and the Jewish people. Many people talk about Islam as if its a new religion, yet it is rooted in concepts, which appear older in form than the concepts written in the Kingdom of Judah (ilah, Allah).
The article below talks about the Arabic origins of the holy name of God YHWH, which is traditionally referred to as Adonai by Jewish people.
Knohl, Israel. "YHWH: The Original Arabic Meaning of the Name". The Torah.com. https://www.thetorah.com/article/yhwh-the-original-arabic-meaning-of-the-name
Hebrew, Greek, Arabic
If you search "Dukhrana analysis" on DuckDuckGo together with a Gospel verse (ex: Dukhrana analysis Matthew 5:9) you can study the translation of the Greek Bible into Aramaic, which contains words similar to Arabic. The Greek Bible was translated into Greek inside the minds of people, who spoke Aramaic. So we must have faith about what they meant:
https://www.dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=Matthew+5:9&source=ubs
For comparison:
Surah al-'Ankabut 29:69
Quoteوَٱلَّذِينَ جَـٰهَدُوا۟ فِينَا لَنَهْدِيَنَّهُمْ سُبُلَنَا وَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ لَمَعَ ٱلْمُحْسِنِينَ
Sahih Intl, Islamicity
QuoteAnd those who strive for Us - We will surely guide them to Our ways. And indeed, Allah is with the doers of good.
Acts 11:25-30
Quote25 Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, 26 and when he found him, he brought him back to Antioch. So for a full year they met together with the church and taught large numbers of people. The disciples were first called Christians at Antioch.
27 In those days some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. 28 One of them named Agabus stood up and predicted through the Spirit that a great famine would sweep across the whole world. (This happened under Claudius.) 29 So the disciples, each according to his ability, decided to send relief to the brothers living in Judea. 30 This they did, sending their gifts to the elders with Barnabas and Saul.
The verse above is very important for me, because it reminds me that long ago, there was no such thing as "Christian". It is a label, a category, created to classify and distinguish people. It also reminds me that there were prophets, like Prophet Agabus among them, who prophesied. For me, this is a reason why every Christian scholar should try to find truths in the Qur'an and to study it, and have compassion towards Muslims, and to consider Muslim beliefs and traditions, as a Christian would want a Jewish person to do it to their religion, or any other group.
Groups and religions
Are all groups the same? No. If you go into one group, they'll tell you to think ABC and do XYZ, and if you don't they might at best treat you differently. That's why I like to worship alone and have relationships based on things outside of religious affiliation and ideas.
When meeting strangers in an informal setting, there is a chance to show sympathy, empathy, and compassion, instead of creating an impromptu philosophical debate or judging them because of how they're dressed. This is difficult for me, because I love to talk about philosophical ideas to people, and am not always the most sympathetic, empathetic, or compassionate person.
I believe the simple truth that unites the Abrahamic religions is in the books. Please help me and others, and continue to search for better examples:
Judaism: The name YHWH explains an attribute of God, which is the upmost important when approaching the religion: true love/passion behind all existence.
Christianity: The two laws ascribed to Jesus explain the foundation of religious discipline. It allows people to become part of the religion and it sets the standard for the implementation of all other laws.
This is important. Consider what has been occurring in USA, since many presidents ago (Bush, Obama, Biden with Title 42, Trump with ICE round-ups). Illegal immigrants are being deported, put into facilities, and managed by government. Many are mistreated Native Americans of Latino origin, which struggle in USA, Mexico and other countries. The law says they are illegal, and so the supporters of deportation will say, "They committed a crime coming here illegally." This is technically true. However, to deport a small number of people is one thing, yet to deport millions involves a logistical risk to health, human rights, and families, that make the application of this law unjust. In Germany, the Jewish people were also deported (Auswanderung, die Deportationen) , and know one knew exactly where they went afterwards, even though they heard rumors.
Matthew 22:36-40
Quote36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
37 Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Islam: Islam is more than just a religious category, it is an idea, a concept, which is not translated into English. Islam is a transliteration of an Arabic word. It is now treated like a religion, like its own category, and we should respect that the same way we respect other categories. It is necessary and unavoidable outcome of how we think and work with the world, yet we can also remind ourselves of why that is so.
Surah al-Bayyinah 98:5
QuoteAnd they were not commanded except to worship Allah , [being] sincere to Him in religion, inclining to truth, and to establish prayer and to give zakah. And that is the correct religion.
Conclusion
Traditions, organized religion, they all can have wisdom and benefit. Yet there are reasons why people oppose them, especially when they are enforced in a way that hurts a person irreparably. We can study religions and find connections to inspire people to treat each other better when they encounter each other, NOT so they all join one global religion that's a mix of everything.
Even though many emotional and empathetic people invent new religions and ideas, the issues described in the Bible of traditional people vs. good non-traditional people is a constant struggle, no matter what religion. I believe we should promote people to focus on themselves as the books say we should, and like Ghandi said, "Be the change we want to see in the world."
Surah Maryam 19:36-37, (Sahih Intl, Islamicity)
Quote36[Jesus said], "And indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path." 37 Then the factions differed [concerning Jesus] from among them, so woe to those who disbelieved - from the scene of a tremendous Day.
Sincerely,
Fireheart47
P.S. The name Fireheart47 is made up name. Fireheart (Fyreheart) was a nickname I used when I used to play MoH:SH as a kid. I don't remember why I chose that name then. I don't play FPS games anymore, did a couple months ago, instead I like to play THPS2. This nickname stuck with me, because of a drawing of a heart with wings in a book I thought was sort of scary called Conquering the Beast Within: How I Fought Depression and Won... and How You Can Too . The number 47 was one of my favorite numbers, because it was a channel on TV I used to watch as a kid. I needed to invent a new nickname, so this was easy to remember.
#28
General Discussions / Re: Why would God limit itself...
Last post by relearning - March 14, 2025, 02:58:36 PMaccidentally i wrote the answer in the other post here https://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=2977.0 but let me put here as well:
for starters, your article dives deep into complex linguistic and theological debates about terms like al kitab and al hikma. while thats impressive, it also highlights a big problem: understanding these concepts requires a deep knowledge of Classical Arabic, Quranic exegesis, and historical context. that level of complexity just doesnt align with the idea that a divine message should be universally accessible. if the Quran is meant for all of humanity, why does its core message require so much specialized knowledge to unpack? shouldnt it be clear and straightforward for everyone, regardless of their background or education?
you make a compelling case that al kitab doesnt necessarily mean a physical book but can refer to divine decrees or authoritative instructions. thats an interesting linguistic point, but heres the thing: if a divine message is truly universal, it shouldnt rely on nuanced interpretations to convey its core truths. the fact that we need scholars to explain these terms suggests that the Quran isnt as accessible as it claims to be. if its only understandable to experts, how can it be a guide for all of humanity?
another issue is the ambiguity around terms like al kitab and al hikma. your article points out that these have been interpreted in various ways by different scholars over centuries. but if the Quran is supposed to be a clear and unambiguous divine guide—especially when eternal consequences are at stake—this level of ambiguity is a serious problem. u argue that al hikma is an attribute of the Quran rather than a separate source of guidance, but even that interpretation isnt universally accepted. it ends up coming down to personal tastes and preferences, which isnt exactly the hallmark of a divine message.
and then theres the reliance on human interpretation. ur article emphasizes the role of human intellect in understanding the Quran, but that contradicts the idea that a divine message shouldnt need intermediaries or fallible human input. u handle the interpretations of al kitab and al hikma well, but u dont provide a definitive, objective interpretation. instead, u leave room for individual understanding and reflection. thats fine for a philosophical discussion, but if the Qurans message depends on human interpretation, how can it be considered a clear or objective divine guide? it just ends up undermining its claim to be universal and timeless.
so, while i really respect the work youve put into this, i think these are some serious shortcomings when we hold the Quran up to the standards of what a divine message should be. its not just about the intellectual debate—its about whether the Quran can truly be a guide for everyone, in every time and place, without relying on fallible human intermediaries.
for starters, your article dives deep into complex linguistic and theological debates about terms like al kitab and al hikma. while thats impressive, it also highlights a big problem: understanding these concepts requires a deep knowledge of Classical Arabic, Quranic exegesis, and historical context. that level of complexity just doesnt align with the idea that a divine message should be universally accessible. if the Quran is meant for all of humanity, why does its core message require so much specialized knowledge to unpack? shouldnt it be clear and straightforward for everyone, regardless of their background or education?
you make a compelling case that al kitab doesnt necessarily mean a physical book but can refer to divine decrees or authoritative instructions. thats an interesting linguistic point, but heres the thing: if a divine message is truly universal, it shouldnt rely on nuanced interpretations to convey its core truths. the fact that we need scholars to explain these terms suggests that the Quran isnt as accessible as it claims to be. if its only understandable to experts, how can it be a guide for all of humanity?
another issue is the ambiguity around terms like al kitab and al hikma. your article points out that these have been interpreted in various ways by different scholars over centuries. but if the Quran is supposed to be a clear and unambiguous divine guide—especially when eternal consequences are at stake—this level of ambiguity is a serious problem. u argue that al hikma is an attribute of the Quran rather than a separate source of guidance, but even that interpretation isnt universally accepted. it ends up coming down to personal tastes and preferences, which isnt exactly the hallmark of a divine message.
and then theres the reliance on human interpretation. ur article emphasizes the role of human intellect in understanding the Quran, but that contradicts the idea that a divine message shouldnt need intermediaries or fallible human input. u handle the interpretations of al kitab and al hikma well, but u dont provide a definitive, objective interpretation. instead, u leave room for individual understanding and reflection. thats fine for a philosophical discussion, but if the Qurans message depends on human interpretation, how can it be considered a clear or objective divine guide? it just ends up undermining its claim to be universal and timeless.
so, while i really respect the work youve put into this, i think these are some serious shortcomings when we hold the Quran up to the standards of what a divine message should be. its not just about the intellectual debate—its about whether the Quran can truly be a guide for everyone, in every time and place, without relying on fallible human intermediaries.
#29
General Discussions / Re: God Testing Humanity: Crys...
Last post by relearning - March 14, 2025, 02:48:27 PM....
#30
General Discussions / Re: God Testing Humanity: Crys...
Last post by relearning - March 14, 2025, 02:20:55 PMwhere I got my criteria for a divine message? these criteria are not arbitrary but are based on the fundamental principles of justice, fairness, and universality. If a message is truly from God and intended for all of humanity it must be accessible, clear, and verifiable by every individual. this is not a subjective standard but a logical necessity for any claim to divine universality. If the stakes are as high as eternal salvation, anything less than perfect clarity and accessibility would be unjust. Do you believe that God would create a system where understanding His message depends on factors like language, culture, or historical context? If so how is that consistent with the idea of a just and merciful God
the fact that no such book exists does not invalidate my argument; rather, it highlights the failure of current religious texts to meet the standards of a truly divine message. If God exists and wishes to communicate with humanity, he is certainly capable of creating a message that is clea, universal, and self-verifying. The absence of such a book does not mean my criteria are flawed it means that the existing texts including the Quran fall short of what divine message should be. Shouldn't we hold a text claiming divine origin to the highest possible standard? or we should accept in a circular logic its divine because it says so and use all our intellect to prove it is so by first accepting it out of habit, culture, and our ancestors' following of it just like a hidden fanatism with a guise of intellectual dressing it and boast around how much time you devoted to understand it to put it into perspective and you have no respect for ordinary people who are also meant to got the message but too lazy or not intelligent like you to study it for years or because of your being arabic or knowing arabic give you a moral high ground because you understand it well comparing other poor beings?
Quran claims to be a clear and accessible guide for all of humanity (e.g., 12:1–2, 54:17). However in practice it requires knowledge of Arabic historical context and scholarly interpretation to be understood fully. This creates a contradiction between its claim to universality and its actual accessibility. If the Quran is truly a divine message, why does it not provide a self-verifying mechanism that anyone, regardless of background, can recognize? Why does it rely on fallible human intermediaries to explain its teachings? These are not criticisms made in ignorance but observations based on the Quran's own claims and their practical implications
the fact that no such book exists does not invalidate my argument; rather, it highlights the failure of current religious texts to meet the standards of a truly divine message. If God exists and wishes to communicate with humanity, he is certainly capable of creating a message that is clea, universal, and self-verifying. The absence of such a book does not mean my criteria are flawed it means that the existing texts including the Quran fall short of what divine message should be. Shouldn't we hold a text claiming divine origin to the highest possible standard? or we should accept in a circular logic its divine because it says so and use all our intellect to prove it is so by first accepting it out of habit, culture, and our ancestors' following of it just like a hidden fanatism with a guise of intellectual dressing it and boast around how much time you devoted to understand it to put it into perspective and you have no respect for ordinary people who are also meant to got the message but too lazy or not intelligent like you to study it for years or because of your being arabic or knowing arabic give you a moral high ground because you understand it well comparing other poor beings?
Quran claims to be a clear and accessible guide for all of humanity (e.g., 12:1–2, 54:17). However in practice it requires knowledge of Arabic historical context and scholarly interpretation to be understood fully. This creates a contradiction between its claim to universality and its actual accessibility. If the Quran is truly a divine message, why does it not provide a self-verifying mechanism that anyone, regardless of background, can recognize? Why does it rely on fallible human intermediaries to explain its teachings? These are not criticisms made in ignorance but observations based on the Quran's own claims and their practical implications