Hello from a Monotheist outside of Islam

[Zack]

There is no sense in calling one God mixture of three entities. God is only One without anybody besides Him or with Him. Trinity is against Tauhid. God is One & Supreme & nobody is partner in any capacity or form. As per your statistics only 2 per cent are true Christians in the world.

For you it makes no sense, but for a Greek thinking mindset not rooted in its Hebrew roots, it is the only alternative. The reasons I explained above re how anyone doing what is considered a miracle must be a "god." Generally the gospel of Matthew in particular will make more sense to a Muslim if they truly study it, than a Christian.... as the context of the world of Isa is islam.

However even then, a Muslim will be confused with some words in the Injil without having a Hebrew explanation. What is more, the Greek speaking world of his day.

All the best

[Ismail]

Salaam.

The world of Christianity believes that Jesus Christ of the Bible declared "Love thy God with all thy heart, all thy soul, and all thy strength. Love thy neighbor as thyself" as the Greatest Commandment encompassing all other Commandments.

So when we make a covenant with God according to the above Commandment, we dedicate our whole self to Him. When we have given our all to Him, nothing of us remains for anything other than Him.

Well, I think, that is exactly what people of every religion including Islam purportedly believe in.

It is only when it comes to real life situations, people begin to dither, and to seek subterfuges for their waywardness.

"...Whoever holds firmly to God, will be shown the right way." (3:101)

"Verily, those who say Our Lord is God, then remain consistently steadfast, upon them angels descend, (indicating): Neither fear, nor grieve, but receive the glad tidings of the Garden you have been promised." (41:30)

Firm resolve, is what has been lacking, all along:

"We had already, beforehand, taken a covenant of Adam, but he forgot: and We found on his part, no firm resolve." (20:115)

Humbly,
A. Ismail Sait.

[Zack]

Salaam.

The world of Christianity believes that Jesus Christ of the Bible declared "Love thy God with all thy heart, all thy soul, and all thy strength. Love thy neighbor as thyself" as the Greatest Commandment encompassing all other Commandments.

So when we make a covenant with God according to the above Commandment, we dedicate our whole self to Him. When we have given our all to Him, nothing of us remains for anything other than Him.

Humbly,
A. Ismail Sait.

Yes, that is also correct. The whole response from Isa is:

"And one of the experts in the law came and heard them disputing together, and recognizing that he had answered them well,
asked him, “What commandment is the first of all?” Jesus answered, “The first is, Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one, and love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength. The second is this, Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these.”" Mark 12:28-30

Regards
Daniel

[Ismail]

Salaam.

Brother Daniel,

Thank you so much for the correction and clarification.

I just copied and pasted [Mark 12:28-30] on the search engine and clicked. And I was overwhelmed with an avalanche of results similar to the one you posted.

Thanks again.
A. Ismail Sait.

[Sardar Miyan]

Bro Danial, If you don't mind I will tell you the universal fact that Taurat & Injeel are corrupted due to various reasons as these Books are not existing in the languages they were revealed. Secondly the rulers were also responsible for corruption. As such no other Book if God is in original form except The Quran. Thanks

[Ismail]

Salaam.

Very sorry for the delay in replying.

You said:

It would be good for Islam to have a careful study of the Quran specifically concerning Isa, as well as the Surah Matthew in the Injil, and develop a “Tauhid based Christology”  so that there is freedom to consume  the teachings of Isa.

As far as Qur'anists are concerned, they believe that whatever is in the Qur'an regarding Jesus if sufficient for a complete understanding of the person of Jesus.

Now you see, the Christian scholars are better placed to understand and interpret Sura Mathew in the Injil.

Qur'an is open to all. So the Christian scholars are better placed to develop Thouheed based Christology.

If you have any links regarding it, we are anxious to view them.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

[Zack]

Salaam.

Very sorry for the delay in replying.

You said:

It would be good for Islam to have a careful study of the Quran specifically concerning Isa, as well as the Surah Matthew in the Injil, and develop a “Tauhid based Christology”  so that there is freedom to consume  the teachings of Isa.

As far as Qur'anists are concerned, they believe that whatever is in the Qur'an regarding Jesus if sufficient for a complete understanding of the person of Jesus.

Now you see, the Christian scholars are better placed to understand and interpret Sura Mathew in the Injil.

Qur'an is open to all. So the Christian scholars are better placed to develop Thouheed based Christology.

If you have any links regarding it, we are anxious to view them.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

Sorry, just getting back to the forum. I have a differing view that "Christian scholars are better placed to develop a Christology." Was Isa a Muslim or Christian? Did Isa live in the era of Gentile Christianity, or the era pre-Christianity? Was Isa Semitic or Non-Semitic? Did Isa follow "Syariah" or "free from the law". The Gospel of Matthew is clearly a book in a Semitic, "Syariah-abiding" world.

"whatever is in the Qur'an regarding Jesus if sufficient for a complete understanding of the person of Jesus." I would say, Islam has rarely studied Jesus in the Qur'an seriously, and secondly, the Qur'an is not the complete revelation of Jesus. That is why Islam has 4 Holy Books..

Wasalam
Daniel

[Ismail]

Salaam.

"That is why Islam has 4 Holy Books.."   ...Please clarify.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

[Zack]

Hi,

Simply responding to your statement "As far as Qur'anists are concerned, they believe that whatever is in the Qur'an regarding Jesus if sufficient for a complete understanding of the person of Jesus."....

I would say that the reason for having 4 Holy Books in Islam (Torah, Zabur, Injil, Qur'an) is that they each represent revelation for a different period. In regards to Jesus, the Injil provides a more complete understanding concerning Jesus. IN regards to Muhammad and the 7th century, the Qur'an gives the most complete message. I would say that the Qur'an does not give a more complete message on the person of Jesus than the Injil.

Wasalam
Daniel

[Ismail]

Salaam.

In Al Qur'an, Jesus has been mentioned in the following Verses:

2:87, 2:136, 2:253, 3:45, 3:52, 3:55, 3:59, 3:84, 4:157, 4:163, 4:171, 4:172, 5:17(in two places), 5:46, 5:72(in two places),

5:75, 5:78, 5:110, 5:112, 5:114, 5:116, 6:85, 9:30, 9:31, 23:50, 33:7, 42, 13, 43:57, 43:63, 57:27, 61:6, and 61:14.

Since you must have already studied Injeel, you will be able to throw light on the notable differences regarding the description of Jesus in Qur'an and Injeel.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

[Sardar Miyan]

With due apology to Jews & Christians as already explained by me that Taurat & Injeel are corrupted due to various reasons. Therefore we have believe whatever revealed in Holy Quran. Secondly Allah need not give all detailed life of Jesus as it has to deal with other important issues.

[Ismail]

Salaam.

Sardar Miyan, please prove with the help of Al Qur'an your statement: "Taurat & Injeel are corrupted due to various reasons."

Also, give your opinion regarding the multifarious, so called translations and commentaries of Al Qur'an, that mix it up with the thoughts and affinities of their writers?

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

[Zack]

Salaam.

In Al Qur'an, Jesus has been mentioned in the following Verses:

2:87, 2:136, 2:253, 3:45, 3:52, 3:55, 3:59, 3:84, 4:157, 4:163, 4:171, 4:172, 5:17(in two places), 5:46, 5:72(in two places),

5:75, 5:78, 5:110, 5:112, 5:114, 5:116, 6:85, 9:30, 9:31, 23:50, 33:7, 42, 13, 43:57, 43:63, 57:27, 61:6, and 61:14.

Since you must have already studied Injeel, you will be able to throw light on the notable differences regarding the description of Jesus in Qur'an and Injeel.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

Hello Ismail. In regards to the notable differences, I think it is easiest in putting this into 3-4 different categories......

a) Where there is additional information in the Qur'an not present yet not contradicting the standard New Testament / Injil. These are primarily relating to teaching that may be of more prominence in the Eastern Church, such as Jesus as a child.
b) Verses in the Qur'an that seem to indicate Jesus being only human and not divine. (eg. QS 5:75).. (See point below re this)
c) Verses in the Qur'an that seem to indicate Jesus being divine, and has traditionally been difficult for Islam to interpret. (eg. QS 3:45 / 4:171).. (See point below re this)
d) A verse in the Qur'an that seems to indicate Jesus was NOT crucified (QS 4:171) and others that do (QS 3:55)

In bring clarity to the above, it is important to understand that the Qur'an addresses real historical issues of the 6th / 7th century AD. The central issue during the life of the Prophet Muhammad was the division of the East and West church over the nature of Jesus. The difference was:
For the West (Roman Empire) , the human and divine nature of Jesus were inseparable. His humanity was divine.
For the East (ie. The Middle East and beyond), the human nature of Jesus was NOT divine, and the 2 natures were 2 separate entities. In other words, God spoke THROUGH Jesus, and the Word was IN Jesus.  A way to explain this difference is if a glass represented the human nature, and water represented the Divine nature. Gods Word to mankind was incarnated in Jesus. (QS 3.45)

All of this comes back to the danger of a different culture and language (Greek Speaking world) in interpreting the scriptures of a very different language and culture. The Eastern Christology I believe is consistent with the Bible and the monotheism of the Qur’an. The Qur’an is a response to a number of issues where the Church had departed of from the Bible message of the Hawariyuun.

[Zack]

With due apology to Jews & Christians as already explained by me that Taurat & Injeel are corrupted due to various reasons. Therefore we have believe whatever revealed in Holy Quran. Secondly Allah need not give all detailed life of Jesus as it has to deal with other important issues.

I believe the Muslim academic world is becoming increasingly aware that the view of the textual corruption of the Torah and Injil was not the view of classical Islam, or the Qur'an itself. Al-Razi (865 – 925) “How could there be any alteration in the Book whose words' sharpness has reached a great level of circulation in the East and in the West? … For no change can occur in a book that is well circulated among men. Every wise man can see that the alteration of the Bible was impossible for it was well circulated among men of different faith and backgrounds.”

This is not deny mistranslation to support post-Bible trinitarian dogma, or serious misinterpretation, or that particular parts of the New testament (in particular those by Paul) were written for the Greek speaking world relating to issues of their legitimacy before the God of Abraham despite non-circumcision.

Views of textual corruption basically evolved because of conflict between Islam and the Roman Empire 1000 years ago.... It is time for a serious re-look at how Islam views the Holy Books and how Christianity views the prophet Muhammad.

[Ismail]

Salaam.

"d) A verse in the Qur'an that seems to indicate Jesus was NOT crucified (QS 4:171) and others that do (QS 3:55)"

But Qur'an says categorically that Jesus was not crucified (4:157).

In (3:55), there is no indication at all that Jesus was crucified.

There is a very interesting point to be noted in (3:55):

".....and I will make those who follow you, (O Jesus,) superior to those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection....."

It is a point to ponder, most seriously.

If you possess, or can find in a public library, or in a friend's possession, the original volume of Abdulla Yusuf Aly's translation and commentary (not the corrupted publication by the government of SA), please read his notes on the above verse. A really noteworthy portion has been left out in SA's publication.

The only point Qur'an wants to stress even in narrating the notable points in the life of Jesus is that the God of Jesus is the only one worthy of worship.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.