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Offline ahmad

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Hidden exception in Quranic language ?
« on: June 09, 2014, 05:52:01 AM »
[21:30] Saheeh International
Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?



Verse 21:30 states that everything living was created from water. However we know that the Jinn were created from fire.
So My question is : When the quran generalizes an issue is there room for exceptions without it being considered a contradiction.
Does the arabic language( or expressions) allow such exceptions to be implied when speaking about general statements ?

I think the following passages are another example for this.


[41:49] Saheeh International
Man is not weary of supplication for good [things], but if evil touches him, he is hopeless and despairing.
[41:50]
And if We let him taste mercy from Us after an adversity which has touched him, he will surely say, "This is [due] to me, and I do not think the Hour will occur; and [even] if I should be returned to my Lord, indeed, for me there will be with Him the best." But We will surely inform those who disbelieved about what they did, and We will surely make them taste a massive punishment.
[41:51]
And when We bestow favor upon man, he turns away and distances himself; but when evil touches him, then he is full of extensive supplication.



Although the Quran is speaking about Man in general. We know that not all Men are like that.
Which leads me back to the Question:
Are some exceptions implied in the Quran when it is talking about things in general ?

Thanks in advance

Offline Anwar

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Re: Hidden exception in Quranic language ?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2014, 10:24:03 PM »
I think generalizations always allow for exceptions. But I think a valid question is whether jinn are really hayy or not.

"Surely We offered the trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains and they refused to bear it and feared from it, and man bore it. Surely he is ever unjust ignorant" (33:72)

The heavens, the earth and the mountains are not alive to accept or refuse anything, so this makes me wonder if we can really consider jinn hayy. If God views these things as entities but not as hayy that says something. From hayy we have hayawaan meaning animals and things that are active. I'll have to look into the definition of hayy in the dictionaries. I'm sure it has something to do with movement and growth, but I'm not sure. At this point, and as always, Allah knows best.

Salam

Offline ahmad

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Re: Hidden exception in Quranic language ?
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2014, 07:34:29 PM »
Quote
[21:30] Saheeh International
Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?


Verse 21:30 states that everything living was created from water. However we know that the Jinn were created from fire.
So My question is : When the quran generalizes an issue is there room for exceptions without it being considered a contradiction.
Does the arabic language( or expressions) allow such exceptions to be implied when speaking about general statements ?

I just wanted to make a correction. Although the jinn were created from fire. We do not know if water was part of their creation or not. Therefore I think this is not a good example for my question.

Offline Anwar

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Re: Hidden exception in Quranic language ?
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2014, 01:03:42 AM »
I don't see it as very logical to think that water was apart of the creation of angels. It has generally been understood that jinn just means unseen beings, this has also included angels. Hence Iblees being an angel and a jinn. If this means unseen angel, that means that some angels are seen, although we may not recognize their form.

Offline razorrahmo

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Re: Hidden exception in Quranic language ?
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2014, 11:21:13 AM »
Perhaps in the question above "every living thing" could be referring to every living thing on Earth or "earthly beings"..Do bear in mind that the Sign (aayah) was directed at desert Arabs and so it must be also something that they could understand at least...This would include all live form that the Earth has born..

As for the Jinn, there are different theories and popular beleief is that they are liek ghosts or demons, but there are some circles of people who believ that they are elemtal creatures such as Microscopic beings (thus beg concealed from humans) or forms of bacteria..(bacteria lived way before humans and they were formed from the lava of the crust and volcanoes.."smokeless fire"). Although it may seem crazy to assume that amoeba and bacteria can have free will and disobey/obey Allah, it may not be impossible. Or they could really be beings that are entirely concealed from our senses but not ghosts for sure.

As for the Angels, it seems plausible that they are beings created of Light, travelling at Light Speeds across the galaxies to perform Allah's commandments. The popular depiction of them being human like creatures with wings is entriely wrong and they may not have a form that we imagine. ANd since they travel at such incredible speeds, our earthly sight cant catch them and thus we cant see them and also time flows differely for them than it does for us. and Angels have no free will.

Offline munir rana

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Re: Hidden exception in Quranic language ?
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2014, 05:10:14 PM »
Quote from razorrahmo : and Angels have no free will.

IF Angels have no free will then how did they ask to God, `Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood....' (2:30)