Does each people judge by what they have been given?

[Donald Hysa]

Salam Truthseekers

You post this verse to support your argument "And there is no creature on [or within] the Earth, or bird that flies with its wings except [that they are] communities like you. We have not neglected in their Register a thing. Then unto their Lord they will be gathered"

I want to point out that this verse does not indicate they will be accountable for  their actions at no point it indicates they will be judged  rewarded or punished according to their deeds

But I am curious to know if you thought about this just recently or you have  heard about this theory before?

[Truth Seeker]

Salaam Donald,

You are the one who needs to prove what you say when you stated to me:

Truthseeker its kind of absurd  to think animals are tested they don't have any concepts of morality right and wrong or rules.

Where in the scriptures are you getting this notion from?

The verse I gave you mentions that ' We have not neglected in their Register a thing'

Now, according to you, animals are not accountable for anything, they have no concept of morality etc, so why is God going to waste His time by having a register/record for them and gathering them in front of Him?

If animals live and die on this Earth, have no purpose, have no accountability then why this verse?

I am making a point from scripture that is heavily indicating some sort of accountability for the animals yet you have no verse to show me your viewpoint.

So again I ask you to prove your statement :

they don't have any concepts of morality right and wrong or rules.

[Donald Hysa]

Truthseeker

Morality is a human concept I am not getting that from scriptures but from science http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_morality
Quran does  mention some talking ants "O ye ants, get into your habitations, lest Solomon and his hosts crush you (under foot) without knowing it."
So he smiled, amused at her speech; and he said: "O my Lord! so order me that I may be grateful for Thy favours, which Thou has bestowed on me and on my parents, and that I may work the righteousness that will please Thee: And admit me, by They Grace to the ranks of Thy Righteous Servants."
-- Sura An-Naml [The Ant] (27):18-19" But  I find it highly unlikely  that God completely changed  the biological construct of ants just they could say that one line

Why is God wasting time  having a register for them? I don't know why did God wast time creating the universe in 7 "periods of time" when he could have created everything instantly ? Why did he waste time creating anything at all since he has no need for his creation? If you think about it everything God does is wasting time ultimately unnecessary  .
Quran states there are creatures that worship Allah  without their free willl Al-Ra’d (chapter 13, Verse 15): “Whatever beings there are in the heavens and the earth do prostrate themselves to Allah with goodwill or inspite of themselves: so do their shadows in the mornings and evenings.” -  It would make sense that these would be animals

And still you have not provided me with a verse that says animals are held accountable for their deeds

[Truth Seeker]

I note that you are going off topic again and starting to moan about God, which is a regular occurrence for you on this forum.

I simply mentioned to you,'why is God going to waste His time by having a register/record for them and gathering them in front of Him?', to illustrate a point.

God is not bound by time or space. You should know that.

My point is that everything He does is for a purpose. So why have a record and a gathering for the animals if they are not accountable for anything?

Humans will have a record and will be gathered in front of God according to Quran. You should know why that is..it is for a purpose:
accountability

Now, I gave you a verse where it  talks about animals and birds having a record and being gathered in front of God. Using logic therefore it means some sort of accountability

And still you have not provided me with a verse that says animals are held accountable for their deeds

I am giving you a verse from the Quran. If you want God to spell it out for you then that's your issue.

You say:

I am not getting that from scriptures but from science

Let us stick to an equal platform.

You provide me proof from the Quran to support the views you have made on this thread:

It is unnecessary cruel since animals are not tested by God or anything

don't have any concepts of morality right and wrong or rules

[Seraphina]

Selam sister Truthseeker,
I said I won't respond to Donald until he stops with this aggressive way of expressing himself. So, I'm directing this post towards you, since I see you have not yet given up. I envy you for being more patient than me. However, I think we are taking the wrong approach. We are treating the symptoms, not the cause.
There are some things about this guy that I don't understand, which would possibly reveal the underlying cause of his anger towards God. Here's what I'd ask him if I didn't promise not to talk to him until he minds his manners:
1.Why are you so furious at God? Is it because you suffered a tragedy or lost a loved one? What has He done to you to deserve your hatred? (Don't deny it, your posts speak volumes of it).
2.If the answer to question above is negative, then tell me, if He is so cruel and merciless, why hasn't He punished you yet for your arrogance? Since He is the same like Enver Hoxha, why doesn't He yet persecute you and execute you (or whatever) for your insults, like E.Hoxha would?
3.Who do you think you are to judge His creation, while you are part of that creation as well? Do you posses infinite knowledge and wisdom like Him? And regarding the science, human brain and animal brain are not yet entirely known from the science. To this day, studies and examinations are being done on this. And more than once it happened that science was wrong in its hypothesis. For example: the Geocentric system of Ptolemy(sun goes around earth) was held a "scientific fact" for centures, and one day it was proved to be wrong. Same with expansion of universe:for centuries it was a "scientific fact" that universe is static, until one day was discovered it was dynamic, constantly expanding. And the list goes on. What I'm trying to say is that science has not yet given us definitive answer in many areas. But the answers it has given us so far - not one of them has ever contradicted a Quranic statement, and we the believers know why but anyway, that's a separate subject.
May God give us patience with those who need our help but won't admitt it
Selam

[Truth Seeker]

Salaam Seraphina,

I admire and respect your stance regarding Donald. You have been dealing with him longer than I have after all 

Also I agree with the points that you make. Let us see whether he decides to come forward.

[Donald Hysa]

Truthseeker

Can you think of any purpose for God existence any purpose at all?

You can't

Yet you claim everything God does is for a purpose

An entity who has absolute power and absolute knowledge has no need to do anything at all. 

Therefore everything he does is without any  real purpose

The you say God is not bound  by tie and space.Where does Quran say that? And what does that even mean?
Do you know what not being bound by time and space means? From what scripture you are getting this from?

I already stated that  one of our basic information about animals is that they have no morality.
You ask what scripture am I getting this from? Well THE FACT THAT ANIMALS HAVE NO SCRIPTURES IS A BIG CLUE.
Besides you need everything you know about the universe to be confirmed by scriptures?

The sun  is bigger than earth. You wont  accept that fact till you find scriptures to confirm it?

Since

[Truth Seeker]

Can you think of any purpose for God existence any purpose at all?

You can't

Yet you claim everything God does is for a purpose

Of course I can yet I am not going to share it with you. If you cannot think of a reason well good luck to you.

Besides you need everything you know about the universe to be confirmed by scriptures?

That's a very defensive attitude Donald! You don't like it when people tell you things from the Quran do you? Are you deliberately being stupid?

To refresh everyone's memories,you asked me some specific religious questions, I then made some points to you from the Quran. You then demanded that I prove where in the scripture I got that idea from.Now that I am referencing the Quran you have an issue with that!

In my last post to you, I make a point that God is beyond time and space. You don't get it and demand I prove it again. Well I am not going to spoon feed you.

You said:

Where does Quran say that? And what does that even mean?
Do you know what not being bound by time and space means? From what scripture you are getting this from?

You claim to have read the Quran. Why then don't you READ it and figure out for yourself where I am getting it from?

[Donald Hysa]

Truthseeker

You have to share you opinion on why God exists or we can't have a  discussion. And I can think of a reason why God exists but I will share it after you share your opinion When you say animals will be held accountable for their  actions  cause Allah will gather them like us you are making an assumtion that is not supported by scriptures. Maybe Allah has other plans for them  I don't claim to know what plans are those cause Quran does not elaborate on it

I do not have an issue with you refering the Quran  but you have to understand the verses you refer  do not support your  stance on this

So you are not gonna show me when Quran says God is beyond time and space? And you are not gonna show me where Quran explains what being beyond time and space means? Cause you don't want to spoon fed  me?
But you already  refered to particular verses of Quran once what does it cost you to do it again?

[adam]

Dear Donald,

I can't help but notice how funny your post's are. You seem to be confused about many things at the same time you have developed a preconceived idea about God. Truth is, you will never fully understand the wisdom that comes with understanding how this reality works not just for us human beings, but also other creatures. As a matter of fact, non of us on this site can claim to know it all. What we know is from the Quran and experience, and what we do not know, God surely knows.

You  preach the word of morality and evidently you do not agree with what you see in the real world. Morality applies to Human beings. Morality is understood by human beings whether it comes from the scripture or not is a different matter.
Therefor we are in a position to make sure we do things right compared to other creatures on this earth.

If you have not already noticed, whatever we are able to perceive in this world works to the benefit of us humans. The movement of the celestial bodies, the natural occurring chemical reactions of  the elements, the duties of animals, insects, etc,
they all are submitting to God's commands ( laws in science and maths) in order for us to be able to live on earth.

For example, without flies, bees, ants etc, plants will not be able to produce the fruits/flowers.
this works to the benefit of us humans. That doesn't mean we can neglect the flora and fauna and reap its rewards. It means we need to take responsibility and take care of what has been entrusted to us.

You have to stop comparing yourself to an animal if you want to understand why morality is not applied to them. Animals have no sense of shame, they do not marry, they do not look for a good paying job. they are here to complete us and in return, we have to be kind and protective of them.

There is something you said that i have copied below:
Truthseeker I am afraid you have misunderstood   me.I do not think  animal's  death is cruel. Their life is.It is unnecessary  cruel since animals are not tested by God or anything.Nature is very cruel every animal's life is full of suffering and struggling for survival.
 

So an animal's death is not cruel, but it's life is?
If you think their life is cruel, what then for us? are human's not also suffering and struggling to survive? If animals are not tested then why do they exist? existing on earth is already some sort of a trial.If you don't think so, i suggest you think again when you are making a decision. I don't see corrupted animals ruling with an iron fist bombarding other animal kingdoms with nukes do i? At least animals are not lied to everyday by their own kind? and at least animals know their purpose here on earth. I seriously doubt you know yours to begin with.

Better not ask me how i know that animals know their purpose here on earth. you want proof study the animal kingdom. maybe you'll understand why they do what they do and not complain on this forum.

may peace be upon all of you brothers and sisters.

[Truth Seeker]

Salaam Adam

Thanks for your post. You are one of many here who have found Donald's posts to not make sense.
 
If a person is going to compare God's status with humans then their thought process will become flawed.