Angels and Adam Vs.Angels and Prophets

[Deliverance]

Peace,
I have question which troubels me.
Are the Angels mentioned by the creation of Adam the same in their form like in other chapters where Angels were sent to other People?
If the answer is No.Than the following question would is this Adam a human beeing?

Thanks

[Joseph Islam]

Dear Deliverance,

As-salamu alaykum

The Quran does not elaborate on the actual form or essence that the angels are formed from (unlike the Jinn - 15:27 - intensely hot / scorching fire / fire from a scorching wind), other than alluding to the fact that the angels have wings (35:1).

It is quite possible that angels and / or the spirit can take various other forms (when required) such as human-like appearances (e.g. (2:102, 11:69-70, 11:77; 19:17), but that does not deter from their main purpose which is to serve God and carry out certain functions. 

On the other hand, Adam was quite clearly created a 'bashar' (38:71) and in my humble opinion, there is no dispute in this.

I have briefly discussed 'angels' in the following post:

ANGELS (MALA'IKAH)
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/284730018330799

Please may I also kindly request that you do not to allow questions such as these to ‘trouble’ you. 

I hope that helps, God willing
Joseph

[Deliverance]

On the other hand, Adam was quite clearly created a 'bashar' (38:71) and in my humble opinion, there is no dispute in this.

If we read the vers above alone one can conclude that the first human is a male as the majority of monotheistic people use to believe.But on another vers (4:1)it is said"...min Nafsin wahidatin..."

So is there a Human Adam and a male Adam with his spouse ?

Some say it is all symbolic and the word Adam Expresses the hebräic word adamah which means earth,durt(?)

Could you please share your knowledge on this subject?

peace 

[Joseph Islam]

Dear Deliverance,

As-salamu alaykum

There is a difference between 'bashar’ and 'insaan’ which I have briefly discussed in the following article from which I quote below:

It is quite useful for the purposes of this article to understand the differences between the two terms which are usually understood to be synonymous.
 
Bashar
 
This word is formed from the root 'Ba-Shiin-Ra' and refers to the more physical, physiological attributes of a human being. It refers to the skin, complexion, beauty, elegance of form, physical intimate relationships, contact of the skin etc. It also takes meanings such as rejoicing and good tidings.
 
Insaan
 
This word is formed from the root word 'Ins' (Alif-Nun-Siin) and points to such attributes as faculties, perception and knowledge. It means to be companionable, or to show an inclination to have company or make conversation. It means sociable, conversable, amicable and cheerful.
 
For example, we note in 28:29, where Prophet Moses (pbuh) 'perceived' (Arabic: anasa) a fire. The Arabic word 'anasa' is formed from the same root 'Ins'. In another verse (4:6), orphans are told to be assessed for sound judgment and if one perceives (Arabic: 'anastum') them to be so, then their wealth is to be passed to them. Again, the same root is used.
 
There is clearly a difference between a 'bashar' and 'insaan' and the terms refer to different aspects of a human being. This point is useful to appreciate when studying how the Quran uses the word in particular contexts.

[1]

Therefore, verse 38:71 speaks of ‘bashar’ - the human traits and physiology and was cited to suggest a difference with angels.

Verse 4:1 that you have cited speaks about how the 'nafs' was formed and how from its essence, a mate was created. These are two separate words and subjects.

I understand Adam as a reference to the first 'human being' (insaan) that from the state of 'bashar' became 'insaan' after God's spirit was blown into him [2] and he acquired a ‘nafs’ [3]   

That is my humble perspective. I hope that clarifies, God willing.


Regards,
Joseph

REFERENCES:

[1] THEORY OF EVOLUTION AND THE QURAN
http://quransmessage.com/articles/evolution%20FM3.htm
[2] DO ANIMALS HAVE SOULS?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/animal%20souls%20FM3.htm
[3] WHAT IS THE QURANIC RUH (SPIRIT)?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/ruh%20FM3.htm

[Deliverance]

Salam Joseph,

Reading your article(1) and your conclusion there is Support of a gradual Evolution of the humanity,by beginnig with a period of humanness (Bashar) than becoming more Humanlike in skills(Insan) and than Modern Humanrace is described as Adam after blowing the ruh.

And this why a vers in sura al-araf is putting Adam on the last positon of humancreation
"وَلَقَدۡ خَلَقۡنَـٰڪُمۡ ثُمَّ صَوَّرۡنَـٰكُمۡ ثُمَّ قُلۡنَا لِلۡمَلَـٰٓٮِٕكَةِ ٱسۡجُدُواْ لِأَدَمَ فَسَجَدُوٓاْ إِلَّآ إِبۡلِيسَ لَمۡ يَكُن مِّنَ ٱلسَّـٰجِدِينَ (١١) "


So Adam is not a male as being created first?Is that correct?.

peace

[Joseph Islam]

Dear Deliverance,

As-salamu alaykum

Adam is the name of the first 'insaan'. As I mentioned in the writings I have now shared with you, the species of 'bashar' was developed as part of a long evolutionary cycle which took many eras. At a certain point once the 'bashar' had acquired the correct physiological state according to God's will,  He chose a particular 'bashar' and blew His spirit into him whereby he acquired a ‘nafs’ and became an 'insaan'. The name of this particular 'insaan' was Adam. A similar process was also used for Adam's spouse.


This is why I said in my last post:

"I understand Adam as a reference to the first 'human being' (insaan) that from the state of 'bashar' became 'insaan' after God's spirit was blown into him [2] and he acquired a ‘nafs’ [3] "

I trust that this now clarifies.

Regards,
Joseph

[good logic]

Greetings  All.

This verse came to my mind when I read this thread:

19:20:
قالَت أَنّىٰ يَكونُ لى غُلٰمٌ وَلَم يَمسَسنى بَشَرٌ وَلَم أَكُ بَغِيًّا

I was wondering why "Bashar" was used here and not "Insan",since Mary was way down the line from Adam?

Just a general question to whoever wants to answer.
GOD bless  .
Peace.

[Joseph Islam]

Dear GoodLogic,

As-salamu alaykum

If you noted the explanation I gave in the thread, bashar is a reference to the "...physical, physiological attributes of a human being. It refers to the skin, complexion, beauty, elegance of form, physical intimate relationships, contact of the skin etc..."

The context of the verse you cited is about 'physical' interaction and thus a reference is arguably given to the physiological state of a human. This does not mean that the bashar is not an insaan. You will note many references in the Quran where the prophet is told to say he is a 'bashar' like others. This is once again a reference to his physiological state, in that he is not a 'superhuman' but is subject to the same physiological limitations and prowess as his followers.

I trust that you are happy with the response from the humble 'whoever' that has answered your question, God willing 

Regards,
Joseph

[Deliverance]

thanks Joseph,it's clear now what is meant by bashar.

Do you mind if ask you,one last question in connection with Adam?

How do we know that the word "zauj"is used for a female shouldn't it be with a ta marbouta?

Thanks for the answer

[good logic]

Greetings Joseph.

I was slightly amused by "bashar" becoming "Insaan",but then, still being called "Bashar" .

Evolution has indeed taken place.,but we can be brought back to our humble beginning if our ego start to inflate.

I did not really have any serious question ,but I appreciate your reply.
Thank you.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Joseph Islam]

Dear Deliverance,

As-salamu alaykum

thanks Joseph,it's clear now what is meant by bashar.

Do you mind if ask you,one last question in connection with Adam?

How do we know that the word "zauj"is used for a female shouldn't it be with a ta marbouta?

Thanks for the answer

Not necessarily. 'Zawj' is simply a noun (plural: azwaj) which means literally a spouse, a mate or a party in a pair. This can either be a husband or a wife depending on context. For example, 'zawjiha' means 'husband' in verse 58:1, and the plural 'azwajiha' means 'their wives' in verse 66:3.

I hope that clarifies, God willing.

Regards,
Joseph

[Deliverance]

Greetings Joseph.

I was slightly amused by "bashar" becoming "Insaan",but then, still being called "Bashar" .

Evolution has indeed taken place.,but we can be brought back to our humble beginning if our ego start to inflate.

I did not really have any serious question ,but I appreciate your reply.
Thank you.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Dear goodlogik ,salam
when i compared bashar with insaan i get the Impression that Insaan is used as a term for all human in General and that bashar is used somtimes for an individual human.What is your Research about these two words,i would like to know your opinion on it .

best

[good logic]

Peace Deliverance.

Thank you for enquiring .Here is my understanding:

I believe Evolution is a divinely guided process-Life began in  water-:
21:30
أَوَلَم يَرَ الَّذينَ كَفَروا أَنَّ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالأَرضَ كانَتا رَتقًا فَفَتَقنٰهُما وَجَعَلنا مِنَ الماءِ كُلَّ شَىءٍ حَىٍّ أَفَلا يُؤمِنونَ
24:45
وَاللَّهُ خَلَقَ كُلَّ دابَّةٍ مِن ماءٍ فَمِنهُم مَن يَمشى عَلىٰ بَطنِهِ وَمِنهُم مَن يَمشى عَلىٰ رِجلَينِ وَمِنهُم مَن يَمشى عَلىٰ أَربَعٍ يَخلُقُ اللَّهُ ما يَشاءُ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلىٰ كُلِّ شَىءٍ قَديرٌ

Also:
37:7
الَّذى أَحسَنَ كُلَّ شَىءٍ خَلَقَهُ وَبَدَأَ خَلقَ الإِنسٰنِ مِن طينٍ
And:
15:28
وَلَقَد خَلَقنَا الإِنسٰنَ مِن صَلصٰلٍ مِن حَمَإٍ مَسنونٍ
Mankind originated from mud-(I do not share the view that we originate from monkeys!!):i.e GOD has put the information_DNA make up  in that original cell to follow the command and divide into different species. Even if we share 99% of our DNA with other species .:
( In the same way that a baby starts as a single cell, that cell has the command to grow into multiple cells,organs, all different in shape and in function and grows into a full developed human)

When the human reached the standard decreed by GOD to  weave His magic and start the trial with humans, He choose Adam  to start the process .

I agree with the definitions of "Bashar" and "Insaan" given by brother Joseph. I also agree with you about the usage of "Bashar" and "Insaan" in Qoran. "Bashar" is used for -Physical/individual- and "Insaan" is used for -general/social/most humans/every human...

GOD bless you brother.
Peace.

[Deliverance]

Salam goodlogik,

I share your view about Evolution too,and as you see on Posts below i believe also that there were already humans existing before God chooses the process of Adam.

When the human reached the standard decreed by GOD to  weave His magic and start the trial with humans, He choose Adam  to start the process .

This is the place in quran and also in other scriptures where the misconcept of the sexes beginn.People belive when they read the Story of Adam that it all begun with a God who is a male and shaped the first human in form of "his"likeness and blew "his" Spirit in "Him" .This is what medivial People(look at the Pictures i.e sixtinik chapelle in Rome)used to have in mind of the first human and still People do so.

We Need to clarifie the term Adam,are their different Adamas in the quran or not ?
And why quran is so silent about the female creation and the Partner of Adam why no Name?

peace

[Joseph Islam]

We Need to clarifie the term Adam,are their different Adamas in the quran or not ?
And why quran is so silent about the female creation and the Partner of Adam why no Name?

Dear Deliverance,

As-salamu alaykum

I have already shared my humble perspectives on this matter in some detail with you and I also note that at your specific request, ‘Good Logic’ has also done the same. Increasingly, I will be looking to curtail laboured discussions on this forum especially when individuals have made their points clear.

May I also kindly and respectfully request that in future, you also do not labour the discussion especially after members have made their point clear by parting with their perspectives.

With utmost respect and regards,
Joseph