Still under verse 4:3 concerning twos, threes,fours

[kabiru74]

Salam. I just decide to open a new topic to clarify further on the use of the twos,threes and four to mean multiplicity or not.

 A particular verse was not mentioned all through the discussion with khalid. So I decided to bring it to the fore to know if it supports multiplicity or not. Please I will like brother Joseph to throw some light on it in relation to the Verses under discussion. The verse in question is 34:46 in relation to 4:3 and 35:1.

Masalam

[Joseph Islam]

Dear Kabiru74,

As-salamu alaykum

As I stated in my discussion in the thread that I understand you are referring to [1], in my humble opinion, no secondary source can provide precedence over a primary interpretation that is derived from the Quran.

I respectfully feel that I parted with clear evidence that verse 35:1 made use of the exact phrase 'mathna wathulatha waruba'a' (by/in) twos and threes and fours) to denote multiplicity. Verse 4:3 and 35:1 are the only two places in the Quran that this exact phrase is used.

It was also quite noteworthy that whilst it appeared that Khalid Zia was subsequently prepared to assert that the term made 'perfect sense to understand wings of angel in twos, threes and fours', given his own traditional (what I understand to be Sufi) background, his own sources claim that angel Gabriel had 600 wings (as per Duster's post). With respect, I felt that this was at best, a rather dubious argument (some may infer disingenuity) on Khalid Zia's part in this particular case.

Regardless, my argument was contained to just the Quran, and in light of no strong alternative evidence, I would incline to argue for the interpretation of 'multiplicity' as with regards the term ‘'mathna wathulatha waruba'a’. Angels having 3 wings would seem to suggest an imbalance, especially as a matter of flight. Furthermore, angels having either 2,3 or 4 wings would also seem a restrictive interpretation, especially as the remainder of the verse asserts that “...He increases in the creation what He wills...’ (35:1)

As I mentioned in my final thoughts of article [2] below,

• "Verse 4:3 does not appear to focus on stipulating an allowance of the number of wives. Rather, the focus seems to be concentrated on curtailing any potential injustice to an orphan with regards her wealth (4:129). The Arabic term 'mathna wathulatha waruba'a' ((by/in) twos and threes and fours) seems to simply denote a multiplicity which can be affirmed against verse 35:1 which uses the same phrase to describe certain attributes of the angels.
   
  The Quran seems not to either encourage or discourage polygyny or stipulate any particular numbers. This seems to be much in tandem with the previous scriptures. The Quran seems to recognise individual capacity and guidance is offered with respect to it."

I trust that clarifies, God willing,
Joseph


REFERENCES:

[1] Critique: Marrying 4 wives in Islam
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1090.0
[2] MARRYING FOUR WIVES IN ISLAM
http://quransmessage.com/articles/four%20wives%20FM3.htm

[Hamzeh]

Asalamu Alykum

I thought I would share another point that makes me agree with Br. Joseph.

If we just imagine for a moment that right before the Quran was revealed or at the same time of its appearance a man had more than 4 wives, what would be his solution. From my knowledge there is no requirement to divorce any wives or to make them only equal to 4 or being forgived for what already happened

Now lets say a man had wives that were sisters or married his fathers ex-wife even though the Quran forbids doing such a thing, for those who have already done that before the guidance of the Quran they were exempt from it, they were not asked to divorce. Below are the verses

Yusuf Ali
4:22 And marry not women whom your fathers married,- except what is past: It was shameful and odious,- an abominable custom indeed.

4:23 Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father's sisters, Mother's sisters; brother's daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suck), foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful;-

Now I feel that if the Quran also condemned to have a limited amount to 4 and if a man had more then maybe a verse of "except for what is past" would of been mentioned. But thats not the case. so the Quran seems like it did not have a problem with polygyny or non-polygyny or a specific number.

I agree that verse 4:3 is stipulating what Joseph has said

"The Quran seems not to either encourage or discourage polygyny or stipulate any particular numbers. This seems to be much in tandem with the previous scriptures. The Quran seems to recognise individual capacity and guidance is offered with respect to it."




Peace