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Offline Mubashir

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4:47 Vs 2:62
« on: April 21, 2015, 04:26:47 AM »
Dear All, Salam


4:47 O you who have been granted revelation [aforetime]! Believe in what We have [now] bestowed from on high in confirmation of whatever [of the truth] you already possess, lest We efface your hopes and bring them to an end - just as We rejected those people who broke the Sabbath: for God's will is always done.

2:62 VERILY, those who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians -all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds-shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve.

-----------------------------------------
One seems to be commanding People of the Book to believe in the Quran lest they are visited by punishment.

The other says belief in God, last day and good deeds should be good enough for those who are not among those who have attained faith in [in this divine writ]

How do  you understand these verses? Have they been translated properly? Thanks.

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: 4:47 Vs 2:62
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2015, 08:38:46 AM »
Wa Alykum Wa Salam Mubashir

Just a little background information if I may provide verses from the Quran of what God expects from the People of the Book.

And Also we should keep in mind while reading the Quran, that some of the people surrounding the Prophet Muhammad were Jews and Christians. Also we should try to follow the contexts of the Quran of when God is speaking to the specific Jews and Christians of their wrong doings that came from there own desires and not from what God has revealed to them.

005.077
"Say: "O people of the Book! do not exceed in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by, who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even way."

005.073
They do blaspheme who say: God is 'Third of three' (Arabic: Thalithu thalathatin) : for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

Other times God is referring to Jews and Christians who follow the correct path that was sent to them.

003:113-114
"Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand: They rehearse the verses of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten in good deeds: They are in the ranks of the righteous"

007.159
"Of the people of Moses there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth."

005.066
"If only they had stood firmly by the Torah, the Gospel, and all the revelations that were sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: but many of them follow a course that is evil."

etc.

The People of the Book who were present in the time of the Prophet are also being clearly spoken to throughout the Quran. The Quran has also come to them as a confirmation of what is with them, and as another guidance to be able to tell between the false desires they have invented from the truth that may be hidden or unclear in their society. It clearly confirms the true religion(the one same religion sent to all people) and the truth in their revelations and clears up the matters that many lost souls of the Jews and Christians are looking for.

It also expects them to believe in all the revelations and messengers that are sent down from God including the Quran and all the messengers. No different as God expects the believers of the Quran to believe in all the other revelations and all the messengers.

Now a person can still remain a Jew or a Christian or Sabian and believe in the Quran and the prophet Muhammad. Jews, Christians and Muslims who believe in God and the last day and do good deeds are believers from a Qurans perspective. And it makes sense as Moses, Jesus and Muhammad were all believers and would not make any distinctions between any of each other.

002.062
"Indeed, those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians and the Sabians, any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."
 
005.069
"Indeed, those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Sabians and the Christians, any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."
 
Now also it was also expected from the People of the Book who were receiving and hearing the message of the Quran not to be the first to disbelieve in the Quran.

2:40  O Children of Israel! Remember My blessings which I bestowed upon you, and fulfill your pledge to Me, and I will fulfill My pledge to you, and fear Me.
2:41  And believe in what I revealed, confirming what is with you; and do not be the first to deny it; and do not exchange My revelations for a small price; and be conscious of Me.
2:42  And do not mix truth with falsehood, and do not conceal the truth while you know.

Why should any believer of the true religion of God deny any of his revelations when the message is always the same. I feel like God wants a human to think about what he/she is believing in and not think that they are the only ones being guided. That God chooses whom he pleases to be guided. And gives guidance in many different ways.

Any one who believed in Gods true message of the past should recognize that the Quran is also the truth as it confirms and reassures the scriptures of Moses and Jesus. Somehow even if a person was to be on a misguided track from the People of the Book, after reading the Quran or what the Prophet Muhammad was revealing it would seem like everything scattered in the air as confusion would be cleared up by just common sense. I find it no different than when some Muslims today used to believe all the stories that were inserted in the religion of Islam and then come to realization that the Quran should be the only source for reassurance of Gods true message. Its so clear as how truth stands out from false.

Believing in the revelation of the Quran and following its law are two different things. The Quran did not demand the Jews and Christians to abandon their ways of law or worship. It actually told the Prophet Muhammad to tell them to stand by the revelations sent to them.

005.068"Say: "O People of the Book! you have no ground to stand upon unless you firmly stand by (Arabic: Tuqimu) the Torah, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that comes to you from thy Lord, that increases in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But do not grieve over disbelieving people"

However it did demand that they do not say that the Quran is not from God and Muhammad was not a messenger. That they should recognize the scripture and the messenger far more than anyone else as they are very familiar with Gods religion of Islam. They have been sent many messengers preaching the same message.


Lots of the answers to your questions can be answered from the article below Insha'Allah

People of the Book
http://quransmessage.com/articles/people%20of%20the%20book%20FM3.htm

There are many related topics at the end of the article that you may derive a better understanding Insha'Allah

Insha'Allah this helps brother.


Peace

Offline Mubashir

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Re: 4:47 Vs 2:62
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2015, 01:44:09 PM »
Salam Hamzeh

Thanks for a thought-provoking reply which makes sense. There are Muslims who strongly believe that unless the Jews and Christians believe in the Quran (thereby accepting Muhammad as Allah's Messenger) they are doomed.

Just to give you an example here is one reply to this question from Dr. Shabbir. He takes the whole issue quite differently:

".........The Qur'an lays great emphasis on 'tasreef-il-aayat' (looking at other verses on the subject in focus). The results are then eye-opening.

Here is a glimpse from QXP with due respects:

2:62 (That was a glimpse of the past.) Those who believe (in the Qur’an), and those who are Jews, and the Christians and the Sabians; whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does beneficial works, their reward is with their Lord. On them shall be no fear, nor shall they suffer from depression.

[Sabians = Nature worshipers. Note: The author of this rendition is not aware of any instance in the Qur’an where the use of Tasreef, that is, looking at the related verses, is more crucial than in the understanding of this verse.

Some great commentators have misunderstood this verse for missing related verses such as these:

2:135 They say, “Be Jews or Christians, then you will be rightly guided.” Say, “Nay, we follow the Creed of Abraham the upright. He associated none with God.”

2:136 Say, “We believe in God and what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to other Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among them. And for Him, we are Muslims."

2:137 Thus, if they come to believe as you believe, then they are rightly guided. But if they turn away, they will be falling into opposition and God will be Sufficient for you against them. He is the Hearer, the Knower.

5:69 Those who believe (in the Qur’an) and those who are Jews, and the Sabians, and the Christians; whoever believes in God and the Last Day, and does works that benefit humanity, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

7:157 The non-Israelite Prophet liberates the People of the Book from the shackles of their manmade dogmas and brings them from darkness to light.

98:1 It is inconceivable that the opponents of the truth, whether they are the People of the Book, or the idolaters, could get out of error until the clear proof, Al-Qur’an, comes to them. .................. O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! = O You who acknowledge the Qur’an!

Reflecting on the above verses makes it clear that the belief in God and the Last Day must be in accordance with the Qur’an. Verses

2:62 and 5:69 emphasize that mere giving of a name to one’s religion or creed carries no importance]..."
---------------------
It is interesting how, people who follow Quran alone, still differ in some major ways over it's interpretation.

Thanks again Hamzeh !!

Offline Sardar Miyan

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Re: 4:47 Vs 2:62
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2015, 05:58:18 PM »
In nut shell all who believe in Quran are Muslims without being called Muslims
May entire creation be filled with Peace & Joy & Love & Light

Offline Mubashir

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Re: 4:47 Vs 2:62
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2015, 04:29:39 PM »
Sharing a reply from another Brother:

Check the tense of verses. in 2:62 verbs are in past tense (perfect tense) while in 4:47 verbs are in present tense (imperfect tense).  In my opinion they have to believe in Quran once it is revealed. 2:62 was applicable before revelation of Qur'an. Just mark the translation you quoted, it is in present tense and that creates misunderstanding.


Offline Hamzeh

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Re: 4:47 Vs 2:62
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2015, 05:06:28 PM »
Salamu Alykum Bro Mubashir

The brother you quoted mentioned that verse 2:62 was applicable before revelation of Quran.

But the verse is clearly talking also to those who believe in the Quran and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians. I cant see how its a glimpse of the past if its including also the ones who believe.

The people who were presently being presented the Quran and believing in the messenger of God Muhammad are the ones termed as " Verily those who believe, ..." Innal Latheena Amanu.

Also I do agree that anyone who the message of the Quran has been presented to them and been convinced that they should not disbelieve in it. That even the Jews and the Christians are expected to believe in the Quran and not be people who say this is not from God. After all like i said before Gods religion is the same religion as it has always been. The same one and only. So anyone who recognizes the truth in their religion whether be Jews Christians or Muslims would agree that there is no difference in their religion.

Also the Jews and Christians have been sent many messengers to confirm to them the religion of God. And the Quran itself reminds them of the religion in truth that was brought to them.

So they should be very aware and it shouls be very easy to recognize that God has sent another revelation to another group of people.

However in my opinion God does not dismiss those from the Jews ans Christians who act right and do good deeds and believe in him. He does not tell them to change their ways of worship if on the right path and for example the Qibla direction.

Salam brother Mubashir

Offline Imran Faruqui

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Re: 4:47 Vs 2:62
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2015, 12:11:23 AM »
An interesting discussion, but it might be somewhat moot. It should be noted that in a practical sense, as it pertains to global civilization today, nearly all 2 billion Christians are destined for Hell as per verses 5:72, 5:73, and 4:171, because almost all Christian denominations, and presumably its adherents, believe in the Trinity.

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: 4:47 Vs 2:62
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2015, 07:47:48 AM »
Asalamu Alykum Imran Faruqui

It is a interesting topic indeed brother. However I don't think this topic should be carried on to be moot because of its importance to humanity. And as you know some people have completely different views on this topic. But its not a small matter. 

I ask myself how can this verse for example be possible if God has not recognized that the laws of the people of the book can still exist? It seems like God has allowed different laws and ways to different people in the name of the same religion.

005:005
"This day (all) the good things are made lawful for you; and the food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them; and the chaste women (Arabic: muh-sanatu) from among the believers and the chaste women (Arabic: muh-sanatu) from among those who have been given the Book before you (are lawful for you); when you have given them their bridal due (taking them in marriage), not fornicating nor taking them for secret concubines; and whoever denies faith, his work indeed is of no account, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers"

How can it be possible that God has allowed the food of the People of the Book to be lawful for Muslims if their laws or sharia that God has gave them no longer exists?

Can it be possible that the laws of the People of the Book be dismissed even though the Quran is allowing them eat from the food of the Muslims while still calling them the People of the Book?

Can it be possible that the laws of the people of the Book be dismissed even though the Quran is allowing marriage between the chaste women of the People of the Book and the Muslims?

Now as we know that the People of the Book had restrictions on the food that they ate, but as soon as they believe in the veracity of the Quran and know that its another and final revelation from God they have been allowed to eat from the food of the Muslims. They have realized that its the same religion. It automatically happens once the People of the Book believe in the veracity of the Quran they are excused from the restrictions imposed on them of the foods.

Also look at the verses regarding the direction of prayers for each people

2:145. Even if you were to bring to those who were given the Book every proof, they would not follow your direction, nor are you to follow their direction, nor do they follow the direction of one another. And if you were to follow their desires, after the knowledge that has come to you, you would be in that case one of the wrongdoers.

2:146. Those to whom We have given the Book recognize it as they recognize their own children. But some of them conceal the truth while they know.

2:147. The truth is from your Lord, so do not be a skeptic.

2:148. To every community is a direction towards which it turns. Therefore, race towards goodness. Wherever you may be, God will bring you all together. God is capable of everything.

The verses above all point in the direction that God has allowed the different directions and laws to different people in the same name of Gods one religion.

5:48. And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed;


Now whatever the people do in the world under the name of Christianity does not mean thats what the religion really is. To me it seems like lots of the Christians are lost and have no knowledge of what they believe. I find them to be very uneducated in Christianity and has taken its ways of life just as inheritance. Honestly I just find that the same approach has been taken from lots of the people of the Jews, Christians and Muslims. Blind following and listening without using the minds. But thats my opinion as I see from whats around me. God is the Judge and knows everything.

I think some how some way we are tested

Peace

Offline Imran Faruqui

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Re: 4:47 Vs 2:62
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2015, 10:30:28 AM »
Dear Hamzeh

Peace to you as well.

Notwithstanding the verses you've quoted above, what do you think is the implication of verses of 5:72, 5:73, and 4:171, in a very real, practical sense, for today's global Christian population, given their clear belief in the doctrine of the Trinity, and hence their inevitable destiny?

5:72
"Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely God, He is the Messiah, son of Mary; and the Messiah said: O Children of Israel! serve God, my Lord and your Lord. Surely whoever associates (others) with God, then God has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust."

5:73
They do blaspheme who say: God is 'Third of three' (Arabic: Thalithu thalathatin) : for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

4:171
O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of God anything but the truth. Jesus Christ the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of God, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in God and His messengers. Say not "Three" (Arabic: thalthatun) : desist: it will be better for you: for God is one God: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs.

These three verses arrive at the crux of the matter. They cannot be dismissed; they are clear, decisive, and must be addressed.

With regards,

Imran

Offline good logic

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Re: 4:47 Vs 2:62
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2015, 10:33:29 AM »
Greetings Everyone.

So are we all being tried? Do the verses not apply to us? For example after 4:47 God continues with:

إِنَّ اللَّهَ لا يَغفِرُ أَن يُشرَكَ بِهِ وَيَغفِرُ ما دونَ ذٰلِكَ لِمَن يَشاءُ وَمَن يُشرِك بِاللَّهِ فَقَدِ افتَرىٰ إِثمًا عَظيمًا

We need to stop ,ponder what God is saying to all of us(Whatever religion!!)?

Are we to use ignorance /Following others/...as an excuse?

Will God hold us accountable for "our eyes, ears and brain"? Or are we going to say :" We have followed -Saadatana wa Kubaraana- and they have led us astray?

"Shirk, is Shirk" and is not going to be forgiven!! Whether we were aware or ignorant?:
2:62 says "Man aamana " which means "No shirk"!!!!Also:

وَيَومَ يَحشُرُهُم وَما يَعبُدونَ مِن دونِ اللَّهِ فَيَقولُ ءَأَنتُم أَضلَلتُم عِبادى هٰؤُلاءِ أَم هُم ضَلُّوا السَّبيلَ


قالوا سُبحٰنَكَ ما كانَ يَنبَغى لَنا أَن نَتَّخِذَ مِن دونِكَ مِن أَولِياءَ وَلٰكِن مَتَّعتَهُم وَءاباءَهُم حَتّىٰ نَسُوا الذِّكرَ وَكانوا قَومًا بورًا

فَقَد كَذَّبوكُم بِما تَقولونَ فَما تَستَطيعونَ صَرفًا وَلا نَصرًا وَمَن يَظلِم مِنكُم نُذِقهُ عَذابًا كَبيرًا

"Zulm is Zulm" i.e "Shirk" in every religion .

We need to ponder the Words ,of course we leave the judgement to GOD,but we must not mislead /find excuses/... for those who practice "Shirk"?

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: 4:47 Vs 2:62
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2015, 03:13:26 AM »
Dear Imran Faruqui

I totally agree with you that the verses (5:72, 5:73, and 4:171) are very clear. However with all due respect I would rather not comment on todays global Christian community because I feel that lots of them are misguided people and are uneducated as I was once as a Muslim and I thank God for showing me a better path and  hope He continues to shower me and all of us to an even better one Insha'Allah May God Be Willing. As for the state of them at the moment I also dont think they all take part in worshipping or even practicing the worship of Jesus as mainstream Christianity shows it to be.

Remember even mainstream Islam as most see it today is not the truth and has been manipulated and distorted in a whole by inventing tales and laws and punishments that have no part in its original form. However and thank God its Scripture has been protected from God. So also a question that arises is are they destined to hell?

But I would also like to ask you though, considering the previous post and the verses I mentioned, doesn't it make sense that God has given different path to different people of the same religion?

When I ask that I am considering that the truth of the Gospels and Torah be taken into account and not what we hear of it today from hearsay or just by looking at what the people do.

Now what I believe to be more important is that the message of the Quran should be passed on to Christians not in the manner as I find lots of us do today. But more properly is to advice our brothers and sisters to desist from the false doctrines that has come to them some way or another. I believe that if the true message is to be passed down correctly that the People of the Book will act no differently from the people who have the Quran and were some how misguided and uneducated about the Quran and using other sources as judgement. The ones who may of came from a specific ideology or were inheritors of a misguided and fabricated concepts. 


What I do find to be a proper way and I can not put it any better than my brother Joseph has put in his webpage titled "Message"
I find he has used the Quran as his guidance and took the approach as the prophet Muhammad was instructed to do with the Christians and the Jews.
I will post the whole message incase some dont have the time to check it. Its long sorry if I posted to much on one post.

"MESSAGE"

[Dear brothers and sisters,
 
There is only one God.
 
Whether you call Him Jahweh, Jehovah, El Shaddai (as Prophet Abraham (pbuh) knew him - Exodus 6.2-3) or Allah, He is One. To Him belong all the beautiful names.
 
Holy Quran 017:110
“Say: "Call upon Allah, or call upon the Most Gracious: by whatever name ye call upon Him, (it is well): for to Him belong the most beautiful names. Neither speak thy Prayer aloud, nor speak it in a low tone, but seek a middle course between."”
 
He is the same One God of Prophet's Moses, Abraham , Noah and Adam. (pbut) He is God on Earth and God everywhere in the Universe and the High Heavens. He is your Lord and my Lord and will hold us accountable on the Day of Judgement for our deeds for which there is no doubt. To Him alone belongs all our worship and praise.
 
This is a common truth that should keep us all united. Our religion is one and is one of submission to God (Islam).
 
Holy Quran: 042.013
"The same religion (Arabic: Deen) has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah and that which We have sent by inspiration to thee and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that you should remain steadfast in religion, and make no divisions in it: to those who worship other things than God, hard is the (way) to which you call them. God chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him)"
 
All those that submit to God with sincerity are Muslims (Jews and Christians included. See [1] below). Let us hold fast to our scriptures in truth which contain different laws (shariah). It was never the will of our Lord to make us one people. To each of us, He has given us a law and an open way.
 
Holy Quran: 005.048 (part)
"...To each among you have We prescribed a law (Arabic: Shir-atan) and an open way (Arabic: waminhajan). If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He has given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute”
 
Prophets and messengers came with good tidings to bring us news of a spiritual Heavenly kingdom that awaits those who remain God fearing, patient in adversity, righteous, chaste, kind, just, peacemakers, forgiving, merciful and loving to our fellow beings.
 
Let us not judge or deride our fellows that seek the countenance of their Lord, for they may be better than us.
 
To my Christian brothers and sisters, our Lord in Heaven is One. It is our understanding as to how He manifested Himself with which we may differ. The Triune God was never a concept understood by those that went before you of the Children of Israel, nor of their Prophets and Messengers. It is also not a manifestation of God that is ratified by the scriptures that have come after you. Moreover, It was not a concept that was readily acceptable to all our early Church fathers especially pre the Council of Nicaea, centuries after the ministry of the Messiah ended.
 
Holy Bible - The Old Testament:  Deuteronomy 6:4
"Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one,"      [1]
 
Holy Quran: 112.001-4
"Say: He is God, the One and Only. God, the Eternal, Absolute. He begets not, nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him"
 
There is nothing fanciful about rejecting new messengers and to abstain from accepting a more pure message when it reaches us. Prophet Jesus (pbut) was rejected by many during his ministry by existing readers of the scriptures. Similarly, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and the message entrusted to him was rejected by many existing readers of the scriptures. Prophets and messengers have been derided before you.
 
Holy Bible: The New Testament:  Matthew 5.11-12
11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.    [2]
 
Holy Quran: 013:032
"And messengers before you were certainly mocked at, but I gave respite to those who disbelieved, then I destroyed them; how then was My requital (of evil)?"
 
Dear brothers and sisters of the Book (Jews and Christians), for you to reject the veracity of a newer message is not a new thing. Each of your scriptures and teachings were scoffed at by those that preceded it. The Quran confirms what is with you and what went before you and acts as a criterion (furqan) between right and wrong. It guards the essence of the message that is with you and protects it in truth. Let us commit no excess in our religion.
 
Holy Quran: 004.171
O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of God anything but the truth. Jesus Christ the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of God, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in God and His messengers. Say not "Three" (Arabic: thalthatun) : desist: it will be better for you: for God is one God: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs.
Holy Bible: John 14:28
“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.    [3]
 
Whether Jew, Christian or 'Mu'min' (See related article [1] below), all have hope of salvation.
 
Holy Quran: 002.062
"Those who believe (in the Quran), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians, any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."
 
Holy Quran: 005.069
"Those who believe (in the Quran), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians - any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."
 
 
Be not divided in faith. Love one another and let us invite one another to the ways of our Lord in truth. He is the only One that can forgive us our sins and have mercy on our souls.
 
For those who call themselves Muslims, the vast majority of you have sundered your religion and have become schismatic, much in the same way as those that have gone before you. For those that split up into sects, we have nothing to do with them if we are to truly remain believers.
 
Holy Quran: 006.159
"Indeed, those who divide their religion and break up into sects, you have no part with them in the least: their affair is with God: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they used to do"
Hold fast with what is with you. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) followed the Quran in truth. The best way to follow the Prophet of God, is to follow what was revealed to him. What was revealed to him was the Quran. See related articles [5] and [6] below.
 
Holy Quran: 007.203-4
“And when you bring not a verse for them they say: Why have you not chosen it? Say: I follow only that which is inspired in me from my Lord. This (Quran) is insight from your Lord, and a guidance and a mercy for a people that believe.  When the Quran is read, listen to it with attention, and hold your peace: that ye may receive Mercy”
 
To those that are in doubt of the Resurrection.
 
Holy Quran: 022:005
"O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs)"
 
Holy Quran: 050:015
"Were We then worn out by the first creation? Yet they are in doubt about a new creation"
 
To those that have faith in many gods and intercessors, there is only one God. Bethink:
 
Holy Quran: 021.022
"If there were, in the heavens and the earth, other gods besides God, there would have been confusion in both! but glory to God, the Lord of the Throne: (High is He) above what they attribute to Him!"
 
Holy Quran: 023:091
"Never did God take to Himself a son, and never was there with Him any (other) god - in that case would each god have certainly taken away what he created, and some of them would certainly have overpowered others. Glory be to God above what they describe!"
 
Dear brothers and sisters, let us come to common terms and let us not dispute. Let us incite one another to the ways of our Lord with beautiful preaching and accept each other's differences. Satan sows dissension amongst us all. Let us be aware of him and his guile, he is our avowed enemy.
 
Holy Quran: 016.125
"Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knows best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance"
 
Holy Quran: 017:053
"And say to My servants (that) they speak that which is best; surely Satan sows dissensions among them; surely the Satan is an open enemy to man"]1


Peace


 

1 http://quransmessage.com/articles/a%20sincere%20message%20FM2.htm

Offline Imran Faruqui

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Re: 4:47 Vs 2:62
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2015, 02:35:56 AM »
Dear Hamzeh,

You write:

“I totally agree with you that the verses (5:72, 5:73, and 4:171) are very clear. However with all due respect I would rather not comment on todays global Christian community because I feel that lots of them are misguided people and are uneducated as I was once as a Muslim and I thank God for showing me a better path and  hope He continues to shower me and all of us to an even better one Insha', Allah May God Be Willing. As for the state of them at the moment I also dont think they all take part in worshipping or even practicing the worship of Jesus as mainstream Christianity shows it to be.”

Actually, this thread, as it contrasts verses 4:47 and 2:62, is precisely about the fate of the People of the Book, 99% of whom are Christian (only 1% are Jews); so commenting on the state of the contemporary Christian community is exactly what is called for. Verses 5:72-73 and 4:171 were cited because they clearly prophesize their fate, based on their adamantly held view of the Trinity doctrine. Undoubtedly, God will take each individual’s circumstance into account upon Judgment, however, in broad strokes, Hell is the abode of a community which associates partners with God; especially the People of the Book, because they were given authentic Scriptures, and then reminded again with a protected Scripture, the Qur’an, of the Oneness of God. Consequently, they have no excuse whatsoever, for setting up partners with God.

You also ask: (i) what is the fate of Muslims who have corrupted the teachings of the Qur’an, i.e. mainstream Islam; and (ii) further comment on the best way to call People of the Book to the truth of the Qur’an. I might politely suggest that neither of these two points are within the scope of this thread topic, and suggest that you may want to open a new thread to address them.

In regards to this thread topic, the reconciliation of verses 4:47 and 2:62, to put things simply, the People of the Book are not required to belief in the Qur’an for eternal salvation (2:62, 5:68-9, 22:67-69, 5:43-47) so long as they do not corrupt the monotheistic teachings of their revealed books. They are, however, strongly encouraged to believe in the Qur’an (4:47), because it is the last, safeguarded Revelation (15:9, 56:77-80), with final authority over previous Scriptures (61:9, 5:48). Once again, I specifically raised the issue of the current state of the global Christian community, because they have exceeded the bounds by corrupting their original monotheistic faith. Therefore, their fate, as a global community, is defined by verses 5:72-73 and 4:171.

With peace and regards,

Imran

Offline good logic

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Re: 4:47 Vs 2:62
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2015, 07:06:34 AM »
Peace Imran.

When GOD addresses:يٰأَيُّهَا الَّذينَ أوتُوا الكِتٰبَ Does this mean only the Jews and Christians? Have the Muslims not received a book also?

When GOD says  do not practise"Shirk" , are Jews and Muslims exempt? They may be worse than the Christians!!!

Traditional Muslims , Jews , Christians...Others? are all addressed/warned not to "Take other gods beside GOD Alone".

Actually looking at the current state of the three religions, I would say "Traditional Islam " of today is the worse culprit in " taking on other gods" and "idolising the Nabi".

The problem is with all of us. The "our mind is made up" sects. Each thinking we have the truth.

GOD is fair with everyone.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: 4:47 Vs 2:62
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2015, 08:16:18 AM »
Dear Bro Imran Faruqui

May peace be with you

I just want to make sure I am on the same page because this post was asking about the two verses 4:47 vs 2:62 and asked how its understandable as it seems like there is a contradiction or confusion

I basically commented that if at any point that any one from the People of the Book is familiar with the Quran and its teachings and is clearly convinced by the arguments that they should NOT reject its veracity and also NOT to say this is not from God and also NOT to reject the messenger. For this reason 4:47

Furthermore 4:47 seems like is speaking to a specific present group of people in the time of the Prophet Muhammad that were being warned. It seems that they are being asked to not disbelieve in the Quran as they were also witnessing its veracity and the messenger of God is among them.

However I also find that simultaneously God has allowed them to remain on the path, law and method(shariah) that was sent to them and do not have to change it to the ways of the Quran or its been given an option taking in consideration they dont deny the Qurans veracity once it reaches them.
 

Therefore that is why there is no contradiction with verse 2:62 when it is speaking about the righteous Jews and Christians. And thats what I was trying to explain to bro Mubashir.

Reason why I also find that its the first Jews and Christians that are being warned and at times its time specific is because of the verse below even though that was to the children of Israel. However I'm not saying the warning is limited to that time only.

4:41 And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.

I can definitely tell you that 5:72 5:73 4:171 are speaking to the ones who commit excess in their religion and believe in the concept of the trinity or about worshiping Jesus. It is definitely asking them to desist from such a concept or else like you said their fate is defined by the verses.

Also the Quran is either asking the reader who came to encounter the Quran who is from the Christian faith or at least asking Muslims to spread the message of desisting from such a concept. And if they dont then again the verses have explained to them what the cause will be.

Basically my point is dont these 2 billion people who you say are Christians need to hear the message or read the Quran or be warned? I am honestly asking and I dont know. Or is the Muslims not spreading the word and just focusing on its my way and if you dont follow my way(shariah for example) then God will not give you heaven? That is why I refused to comment on their fate.

With Peace and Blessing to you too bro




Offline Imran Faruqui

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Re: 4:47 Vs 2:62
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2015, 03:31:52 AM »
Dear Hamzeh

Please find my perspectives below.

Quote
I basically commented that if at any point that any one from the People of the Book is familiar with the Quran and its teachings and is clearly convinced by the arguments that they should NOT reject its veracity and also NOT to say this is not from God and also NOT to reject the messenger. For this reason 4:47

While you are correct that once the People of the Book accept the Qur’an’s authenticity they should subsequently not reject it, however, it is verse 42:16 which arguably conveys this understanding and not verse 4:47.

Quote
Furthermore 4:47 seems like is speaking to a specific present group of people in the time of the Prophet Muhammad that were being warned. It seems that they are being asked to not disbelieve in the Quran as they were also witnessing its veracity and the messenger of God is among them.

Agreed. Verse 4:47 is best understood in the context of the previous verses, 4:44-47:

4:44 Did you not see those who have been given a portion of the Scripture? They purchased straying, and they want you to stray from the path.
4:45 And God is fully aware of your enemies; and God is enough as a supporter, and God is enough as a victor.
4:46 From amongst the Jews there are those who take the words out of context, and they say: “We hear and disobey, and listen but let not any listen, and shepherd us,” in a twisting of their tongues and as a mockery of the system! And had they said: “We hear and obey, and listen, and watch over us,” it would have been better for them and more upright; but God has cursed them for their disbelief, they do not believe except very little.
4:47 O you who have received the Scripture, believe in what We have sent down authenticating what is with you, before We cast down faces and turn them on their backs or curse them as the people of the Sabbath were cursed. And God’s will is always done.

As disclosed by the verses above, a group from amongst the Jews were deliberately attempting to undermine the message of the Qur’an, and it is in this context, that they are warned of punishment. This qualification also explains why there is no contradiction whatsoever with verse 2:62, because 4:47 is not applicable to the People of the Book in a categorical sense.

Quote
However I also find that simultaneously God has allowed them to remain on the path, law and method(shariah) that was sent to them and do not have to change it to the ways of the Quran or its been given an option taking in consideration they dont deny the Qurans veracity once it reaches them.

It does not seem reasonable that once the Qur’an is accepted as authentic, as the latest Revelation, that the People of the Book can carry on with their previous guidance/laws/way of life; as if they had not heard the message. Verses 2:122, 3:199, 5:83, 17:107-108, and 28:52-53, suggest otherwise; that they become Believers (i.e. those who follow the Qur’an).

Quote
Basically my point is dont these 2 billion people who you say are Christians need to hear the message or read the Quran or be warned? I am honestly asking and I dont know. Or is the Muslims not spreading the word and just focusing on its my way and if you dont follow my way(shariah for example) then God will not give you heaven? That is why I refused to comment on their fate.

Christianity and Islam have been at loggerheads ever since the revelation of the Qur’an. Christianity has been obstinately rejecting the Qur’an’s message and Muhammad as an authentic Prophet for the past 1400 years. It’s not for lack of trying that the Qur’an has not been accepted by Christians: as a global community, they willfully cling to Jesus as son of God; and they will undoubtedly and ultimately pay the price for that:

4:48 God does not forgive that partners be set up with Him, and He forgives what is beside that for whom He wills. Whoever sets-up partners with God has indeed invented a great sin.

I trust that clarifies.

With peace and blessings,

Imran

P.S.  I believe you misquoted verse 4:41 in your previous post.