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Offline HOPE

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Glorification vs Salat
« on: May 09, 2015, 05:41:40 AM »
 Salaam all,

Brother Joseph writes, “ As can be clearly seen, not only are the 5 daily prayers mentioned but we also note the periods that the prayers correspond to”. 

I was reading the salaat verses today and  found only two names  mentioned in 24:58 as Salaatil-Fajri and Salaatil-‘Ishaa.  The rest of the time periods mentioned in the Quran are for the glorification of God and one time for privacy. See 30:17, 40:55, 33:42, 76:26, 20:130, 52:49 

 11:114 Iqamatas-Salaat is the terminology used for performing the ritual, although we do glorify God in the Salaat twice in each raqat.

" Subhaan Allahi Wal Hamdulillahi Wa Laa ilaha illal Laahu Wallahu Akbar “ is this the tasbeeh that we need to say the rest of the time periods mentioned? 

Per Quran, do we have two salat  and five tasbeeh times?  What other ways can we do the glorification?

Peace
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Offline Sardar Miyan

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Re: Glorification vs Salat
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2015, 11:31:21 AM »
Salam Sister Hope, Bro Joseph has given details of all Five Salath in his article. He had explained Five
Salath in a day. I think we recite Subhana Ribbul Azeem in Ruku whie we recite Subahana Rabiul Aala in Sujood. In addition to Five Fardh Salath the Tahajjud salat is for the night which is optional. Thanks
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Offline Hamzeh

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Re: Glorification vs Salat
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2015, 11:52:37 AM »
Wa Alykum Wa Salam Hope

You probably read the article "the prayers from the Quran"

http://quransmessage.com/pdfs/The%20Five%20Prayers.pdf


Joseph Quotes at the end of the article:
"As can be clearly seen, not only are the 5 daily prayers mentioned but we also note the periods that
the prayers correspond to. We also note the Tahajjud prayer as an additional prayer that was
enjoined on the Prophet. "

I dont think he meant they are mentioned by NAME like how some might call them in the Arabic language (Fajr, Duhr, Asr, Maghrib,Isha). But by some way or another( salat, tasbih) meaning by prayer, glorification, or supplication.

So in other words the Quran mentions the 5 daily prayers by some way or another and also by the periods and times that they correspond to.


Salat is a action that one does in a specific form at a specific time. The form that the Quran requires are listed below that I got from Josephs other article.

‘X’ - THE GUIDING ASPECTS OF SALAAT
• The details of ablution (4:43; 5:6)
• A need for a direction - Qiblah, specific for the ‘believers’ (Mu'mins) (2.143-44)
• Garments (7:31)
• Allusion of times: (4:103; 11:114; 17:78; 24:58; 30:18; 2:238: 20:58)
• That prayers must be observed on time (4:103)
• Followers of the previous scripture to observe their Qiblah and the Believers (Mu’mins) their own Qiblah (2:145)
• Prayer involves prostration (Sujood - 4:102; 48:29)
• There is more than one prayer (Prayer in plural used - Salawat) (2:238)
• There is a general form to prayer (2:238-39).
• Standing position (3:39; 4:102)
• Bowing down and prostrating (4:102; 22:26; 38:24; 48:29)
• Form is not required during times of emergencies, fear, and unusual circumstances (2:239)
• A mention of a call to prayer and congregation prayer (62:9)
• A warning not to abandon prayer as was done by people before (19:58-59) but to establish prayer (Numerous references)
• The purpose of prayer - To remember God alone (6:162; 20:14)
• Prayer involves utterance (4:43)
• The purpose to protect from sins (29:45)
• What to do in danger and the shortening of prayer (4:101)
• Garments and mention of a Masjid, or a place of prayer (7:31)
• The tone of prayer (17:110)
• There is a leader of prayer (4:102)

There seems to be 5 prayer times that are required to be done by believers. You would be automatically be glorifying God by doing the required salat.

You may also glorify the One Lord at any time by remembrance, reading and doing good.

Salat(prayer) is done by way of form and at the specified time

Some articles you may of read or want to read and form your best observations about I recommend the following:

5 prayers
http://quransmessage.com/articles/the%20five%20prayers%20from%20the%20quran%20FM3.htm

3 or 5 prayers?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/3%20or%205%20prayers%20FM3.htm

Do we have to pray in Arabic?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/do%20we%20have%20to%20pray%20in%20arabic%20FM3.htm



Offline good logic

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Re: Glorification vs Salat
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2015, 02:07:27 PM »
Peace Hope.

Please allow me to share my opinion about 24:58.
 I believe GOD is talking about a right conduct during a period of privacy, not naming any salat.

1- We retire to our room ,in privacy and to rest after salat "Alisha" until before "salat "Alfajr" this is one period.
2- we also retire to our room in privacy and to rest during the "Dhahirati (Siesta,noon,,,) that is another period.

So the subject here is an instruction to others ,if they need to talk/ask/see...us to knock/get our attention...before entering the room.

The subject is not naming the salats!!! So it does not mean there are only two salats in Qoran.

Just because GOD happens to mention the two salat periods in this verse that is talking about another subject, does not mean there are only two salats.

If GOD wanted to name all the salats, He ( No gender intended)would have made naming the salats the subject and named all of them.

Qoran confirms five periods for the daily salats. Fajr= Dhahirati- Kabla ghurubi shams- Maghrib and Isha. The traditional Muslims call the two day prayers Dhuhr and Asr .I have not found find these  two words describing any period of the day in Qoran personally.

GOD bless you.
Peace.
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Offline HOPE

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Re: Glorification vs Salat
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2015, 09:00:09 PM »
Peace all,

Thanks for the replies which helped me remember one more named salaat  as in 2:238 which brings the total to three to be guarded by name.  Tasbeeh is then bowing and prostration part of the salaat and done with the restriction of ablution and facing qibla.  Verbally it can be done all the time/place by itself along with the attitude of humility.
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Offline Wakas

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Re: Glorification vs Salat
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2015, 10:48:11 PM »
peace Hope, all,

I strongly recommend you read the following:
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-SaBiH-from-Quran.html

Awaiting your feedback.

Offline HOPE

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Re: Glorification vs Salat
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2015, 02:35:18 AM »
Salaam Wakas,

 thank you for the very comprehensive analysis of SBH in the Qur'an.  Read it twice yet not fully grasped it completely.  Need more time.  One quick question: what is Salaatil-Wustaa and where does it fit in?

Peace
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Sardar Miyan

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Re: Glorification vs Salat
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2015, 08:14:05 AM »
Salam Sister Hope,
002:238           
"Guard strictly your prayers (Arabic: Salawaati), especially the Middle Prayer; and stand before God in a devout (frame of mind)"
Salathul Wasta is middle prayer which most of the people mark Salatul Asar as middle prayer , which has to be guarded. Thanks
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Offline Wakas

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Re: Glorification vs Salat
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2015, 01:35:49 AM »
peace Hope,

You and sardar have made the same mistake.

"Salathul Wasta" does not exist in Quran.

The Quran actually uses the term "AL salat al wusta" in 2:238.

Quote from: source
Further, the Arabic form of the term "al salat al wusta" in 2:238 is different to the form "salat al fajr" and "salat al isha" in 24:58, and clearly indicates it is a description whilst the latter two are a specific reference, i.e.
salat al fajr ~ salat (of) fajr/dawn
salat al 3sha ~ salat (of) 3sha/evening
al salat al wusta ~ the wusta/balanced salat
Many of those who advocate a middle salat incorrectly refer to it as "salat al wusta" as if to imply it occurs in the same form as "salat al fajr"/"salat al isha" in Quran.

If in doubt, please ask anyone knowledgeable of Arabic.

The article I linked to is quite long, and has other links etc so feel free to take your time in studying it before replying.

Offline HOPE

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Re: Glorification vs Salat
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2015, 01:45:53 AM »
Peace Wakas,

Then, how can you conceptually explain to me the middle of two?  Salatul wusta may not exist but it is something to be guarded.

Thanks
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Offline Sardar Miyan

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Re: Glorification vs Salat
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2015, 04:52:59 AM »
Sister Hope Please go through Bro Joseph Islams article on Five Prayers.Thanks

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Offline HOPE

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Re: Glorification vs Salat
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2015, 05:12:57 AM »
Salaam Sardar,

I do not have a problem with five prayer justifications; yet just like Prophet Abraham, I want to put my heart at ease and want to explore only the named salat in the Quran. In addition to Fajr and Ishaa there is an another one named as Wusta which is not practiced by that name.  At that point Br. Wakas referred me to an article which reduces the named salaat to Fajr and Ishaa, only.  Then I asked him what to do with the 'Wusta'. 

Peace
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Sardar Miyan

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Re: Glorification vs Salat
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2015, 05:24:06 AM »
Bro Joseph Islam has covered the Salath ul Wasta also. Some of the people believe in Three Salath while Five prsyers are performed by Muslims throughout the world. The Five Salath are Mutwatir right from the period of our prophet  till now.
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Offline Wakas

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Re: Glorification vs Salat
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2015, 05:34:27 AM »
peace Hope,

Quote
Then I asked him what to do with the 'Wusta'.


The answer to your question is in the links in the article. See point 11 here. Also this thread, which links to this.

Offline Wakas

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Re: Glorification vs Salat
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2015, 05:36:15 AM »
peace sardar,
The Five Salath are Mutwatir right from the period of our prophet  till now.

Are you aware of this?
Quote
Background information:
Traditional Islamic history openly admits that before the alleged "isra & miraj" (night journey & ascension) story involving prophet Muhammad in 17:1, there were only two salat daily, or perhaps 2 + 1 extra during the night, see sources: famous Traditional scholar Ibn Kathir and academic article dedicated to this topic. For those unfamiliar with the alleged isra & miraj story, please use a search engine. For a possible explanation of 17:1 as per Quran, please see here. Thus, according to tradition, after this event there became 5 daily salat.
See: http://www.scribd.com/doc/37518694/Uri-Rubin-Morning-and-Evening-Prayers-in-early-Islam-by-muslims