The Existence of Jinnaat in Islamic Point of View

[Hamzeh]

Salam Mia

Sorry Mia I should of also included this article below [1]

Correct me if I'm wrong but i'm assuming you have the impression that Islam was practiced in Mecca before the revelation of the Quran but over time it was changed and diverted from the truth and became pagans and then God sent them a messenger(Muhammad) to reinstitute the proper ways of Islam?

From what I understand from this that you quoted from Br. Joseph:

No doubt, Prophet Muhammad's  (pbuh) affiliation with the site at Makkah was historic, possibly since childhood (2:144 -  "...So We shall surely turn you to a direction of devotion / prayer (Arabic: Qiblatan) that you will be pleased with..."). This site was chosen to become the direction and Holy sanctuary for the new Muslims. It was here that the practices of old were reinstituted by Divine decree.

Is that, although the site in Mecca was not the holy site that was used by Abraham or any other prophet that is known to us through any scripture, the practices of old which was started in Bekka by Abraham( assuming it was in holy lands of Jerusalem) was REINSTITUTED  in Mecca. Mecca which is the home land of the prophet Muhammad(pbuh) from childhood which could of consisted to the change of the Qibla by God because Muhammad and his people desired or pleased with.

That means that what was once the Qibla(direction of prayer) and the hajj that was started by Abraham in a place called Bekka(where ever that was) is now also given to a new people in a different place than Bakka which is Mecca(Kaaba).

In the end Indeed God know best

you said

How did some of the beliefs and cultural elements of pagan Arabia filter into Quranic Islam? For example, Muslims believe in jinn, which came from pagan Arabia, not Abraham, right? (Please correct me if I'm mistaken.)

However, what about jinn? How did they become part of Islam? Any thoughts?

I don't think there is any proof that the pagans either believed in Jinns or disbelieved in them in any way. There is no proof of that. It also could of been passed on from Abrahams people but not in the correct form. No different of how people may hear of Islam who are distant from it. They might think the opposite of what it might be and some may adapt certain things that are correct.

Also just because people do something right doesn't mean they needed guidance through a scripture. These could of happened by the nature humans are created with. For example belief in one God. Prophet Abraham(pbuh) did.

Also it could be that coincidentally or intentionally that people have invented some sort of religion or devotion by superstition or by the other people around them. It is well known from the Quran that these particular Arabs did not receive any guidance from God in the past. That being said I would not necessarily stem them back to as far as the time of Adam's children which received guidance.

Thus another question arises, since  Adam knew about Jinns, and all people are the children of Adam. Would not that mean the Arabs some how been guided? Or knew about Jinns?

There is also the argument that all the people were destroyed from the children of Adam except Noah and who was saved with him in the Ark, and then progeny started again with different races from who ever was on the Ark including Noah. Again God knows best.

A similar question to your question if i'm understanding you correctly is:
The term Jinn was it part a existing term or was it invented and introduced to the Arabs in the presence of the Quran?
The term Micheal is used once in the Quran, how would they know about him or what was expected from them to know about him?

From what I would gather up is that since believers are encouraged to be familiar with the Bible then all this would fit together.

It could be quite possible that some of the rituals and ways of the pagans were adopted from different place over different times. And they made names for certain aspects. There was possibly also other people living in there areas. Usually when a culture invents a name of a certain material or something important in that language another people would possibly also invent a name for that in another language.

However what the Quran did was correct their wrong ways. "Practices that were incongruent with Islam were challenged and subsequently removed. Those commensurate with the teachings of Islam were allowed to remain (2:158). This was the perfection that was completed (5:3)."

I think I repeated myself a couple times, I hope i didn't lose you

Peace

[1]THE QIBLA CHANGE
http://quransmessage.com/articles/qibla%20FM3.htm

[Star]

Salam

You said:

"Is that, although the site in Mecca was not the holy site that was used by Abraham or any other prophet that is known to us through any scripture, the practices of old which was started in Bekka by Abraham( assuming it was in holy lands of Jerusalem) was REINSTITUTED  in Mecca. Mecca which is the home land of the prophet Muhammad(pbuh) from childhood which could of consisted to the change of the Qibla by God because Muhammad and his people desired or pleased with."

This would make sense. So Abrahamic practices WERE reintroduced to Arabia, but not from Ishmael.

You also said:

"I don't think there is any proof that the pagans either believed in Jinns or disbelieved in them in any way. There is no proof of that. It also could of been passed on from Abrahams people but not in the correct form. No different of how people may hear of Islam who are distant from it. They might think the opposite of what it might be and some may adapt certain things that are correct."

I have to disagree, because there is archaeological evidence that the Arabs paid tributes to jinn in some way. They were considered to be spirits who could control people and help them.

Also, the Quran says people worshipped jinn in pagan Arabia:

"And they made the jinn associates with Allah, while He created them, and they falsely attributed to Him, and highly exalted is He above what they ascribe to Him." (6:100)

I was wondering, do you think these people actually interacted with jinn, or were jinn just a belief they made up?

These Arabs also worshipped a supreme god called Allah, although they set up intercessors with Him and worshipped them as well. Allah in Arabic just means "the God". I guess when the Quran came along, it got rid of all the other gods and reinstituted Allah as the One God.

In addition, you stated that the Arabs had not received any guidance before Muhammad arrived. It's possible that the Quran is referring to those particular Arabs who lived at that time, and not necessarily all the Arabs that had ever lived in that land. (God knows best

I read the article, and it's clear from this article that the Kabah wasn't the original "house of God" that Abraham had built. It's weird, because I was taught all my life that Abraham and Ishmael built it.

Mia

[Star]

Also, if the Kabah wasn't built by Abraham and didn't originally introduce the monotheistic faith, then how did the Arabs know about Allah? Or did they just invent him as one of their gods, and invent the Kabah rituals without any influence from monotheism?   

[Hamzeh]

Peace Mia

I have to agree with your disagreement of mine . You did prove that they did associate the jinns with God(6:100). Thus it was in their terminology.

I read the article, and it's clear from this article that the Kabah wasn't the original "house of God" that Abraham had built. It's weird, because I was taught all my life that Abraham and Ishmael built it.

I think lots of us thought that.

I was wondering, do you think these people actually interacted with jinn, or were jinn just a belief they made up?

From verse 6:100 that you kindly shared there seems to be a hint that they knew what the jinns were. But believing in Jinns was not what God had condemned, it was that they associated them with God. I can't really say where this belief rooted from. God knows best.

Also, if the Kabah wasn't built by Abraham and didn't originally introduce the monotheistic faith, then how did the Arabs know about Allah? Or did they just invent him as one of their gods, and invent the Kabah rituals without any influence from monotheism?

Again only God knows best.
Of course these Arabs were not totally isolated from the world, and they did hear stories from time to time from other people who may have been guided. At times the Quran speaks to them as if there may be stories that have been passed around in the land. example 88:01 "Has there come to you the narration of the overwhelming."

Only God knows best where they invented their rituals from and where the Kaba came from before the advent of the Quran.

Peace

[Truth Seeker]

Salaam all,

I kindly request that we stick to one topic here. If you wish to discuss who built the Kabbah
please can you open a new post.

hicham9:

• Can you stop making sweeping statements then disappear from the thread. You state that
  'The Qurān is a book of facts, not fiction.' yet have not provided any proof from the Quran as to what jinn are.
• Joseph however has and you seemed irked when another forum member requested you read his article on the matter!
• One liners are not appreciated here so as a moderator, I will be monitoring your posts and if I deem them to be time wasting I will remove you from this forum.
• You state:"Thanks but, I'd rather learn directly from the clear, Arabian Qurān."
  Then what are you doing here airing your views? Why should we listen to you when you don't want anyone else to listen to Joseph or others? 

[/list]

[hicham9]

hicham9:

• Can you stop making sweeping statements then disappear from the thread. You state that
  'The Qurān is a book of facts, not fiction.' yet have not provided any proof from the Quran as to what jinn are.
• Joseph however has and you seemed irked when another forum member requested you read his article on the matter!
• One liners are not appreciated here so as a moderator, I will be monitoring your posts and if I deem them to be time wasting I will remove you from this forum.
• You state:"Thanks but, I'd rather learn directly from the clear, Arabian Qurān."
  Then what are you doing here airing your views? Why should we listen to you when you don't want anyone else to listen to Joseph or others? 

Salute @TS

There's nothing wrong with me sharing my personal understanding,
whether one-liners or not !

If ye truly seek proof from the Qurān that الجن and الانس are epithets used of humans, then plz study the Qurān on your own, objectively, instead of asking me to point out the obvious, 72:6.

I meant no disrespect, i just dislike spoon-feeding others!
I'm but an apprentice with a homework. The Teacher is G-D.

Ps. If you wish to remove me from the forum, then plz go ahead and do so

سلام

[Star]

Salam

Since Truthseeker advised us to stay on topic, I'll make a brief statement about the Kabah and then continue our discussion regarding jinn.  I  guess the pagans built the Kabah. And then Allah (using Muhammad) got rid of all the idols and made it a place of dedication and worship to one God. I think this shows how falsehood can be reformed--it could be symbolic, I suppose.

About jinn: In pagan Arabia, the term "jinn" was used to refer to "familiar spirits". The idea of spirits existed in pretty much every community at that time, and it still does. This idea was nothing new. The Arabs, however, didn't know about real jinn. They simply thought of jinn as god-like supernatural creatures who could protect people with magic. Thus, their definition of jinn, or spirits, was incorrect. Allah fixed this definition with the Quran. He informed the Arabs that the jinn are actually made of essence of fire, and  that they're not worthy of worship, and that it might be better not to associate with them.

In conclusion, the Arabs, just like every other society, believed in spirits. They called them jinn. They held jinn in high esteem and sometimes worshiped them. The Quran acknowledged the existence of spirits and continued using the term "jinn" to refer to them. However, it redefined these spirits, took away their alleged godlike qualities, and explained to the Arabs that their conception of jinn (spirits) was actually quite far away from the truth.

This is my understanding. The Arabs didn't know about jinn before the Quran came. They simply knew about spirits that bore little resemblance to real jinn, other than their name. God fixed this.

What do y'all think?

Mariyah

[Truth Seeker]

Salaam Hitcham9

My point to you was simply that if someone else on the forum has read and understood from the Quran and also agreed with an article written by Joseph, it does not mean that they are blind followers. You have insulted another forum member for that.

To be frank, our readership is more sophisticated than that and they understand unequivocally understand that the true teacher is God.

Back to the actual TOPIC, please can you elaborate your statement:

Contrary to popular belief,
both الجن and الانس are mortal humans ...

The Qurān is a book of facts, not fiction.

It is fact that al jinn are a different creation to humans as the verses state:

"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape; Q[15:27]
And the Jinn, We had created before, from the fire of a scorching wind." Q[15:28]

It clearly says that the jinn were created before man. Explain what that means to you?

[hicham9]

Salute @TS,

If ye truly seek proof from the Qurān that الجن and الانس are epithets used of humans, then plz study the Qurān on your own, objectively, instead of asking me to point out the obvious, 72:6

《وانه كان رجال من الانس يعوذون برجال من الجن فزادوهم رهقا》
And that: there were MEN among the "ins" seeking help from MEN among the "gin,"
so they increased them in exhaustion.

(Q 72:6)

Lexical Definition :

الرَّجُلُ : الذكر البالغ من بني آدم

[hicham9]

It is fact that al jinn are a different creation to humans as the verses state:

"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape; Q[15:27]
And the Jinn, We had created before, from the fire of a scorching wind." Q[15:28]

It clearly says that the jinn were created before man. Explain what that means to you?

NoP ~ 15:28 does not talk about الجن !!!

I already pointed this out, here !

Hope this helps.

سلام

[hicham9]

الرَّجُلُ بِضَمِّ الجِيمِ وسُكونِهِ: م معروف وهو الذَّكَرُ مِنْ نَوْعِ الإنْسانِ يَخْتَصُّ به
 ولذلكَ قالَ تعالى : " وَلَوْ جَعَلْنَاهُ مَلَكاً لَجَعَلْناهُ رَجُلاً

الرَّجُل معروف الذكرُ من نوع الإِنسان خلاف المرأَة

الرجل: الذكر البالغ من بني آدم

hicham9: Can you stop making sweeping statements then disappear from the thread. You state that : 'The Qurān is a book of facts, not fiction.' yet have not provided any proof from the Quran as to what jinn are. Joseph however has and you seemed irked when another forum member requested you read his article on the matter!

Is this proof enough ?

[Star]

Salam Hicham9, when you write in Arabic, could you please translate? I can basically read Arabic, but I don't understand it, especially when it doesn't have diacriticals. I honestly have no idea what you just typed up there.

Also--this is just a request BTW--can you please change your signature at the bottom of your posts? Or at least make the picture a bit smaller? It's confusing to scroll through everything, and it's disorienting when your signature has more content than your posts.

Mia

[hicham9]

Salam Hicham9, when you write in Arabic, could you please translate? I can basically read Arabic, but I don't understand it, especially when it doesn't have diacriticals. I honestly have no idea what you just typed up there.

Try google translate, or learn Arabic !

Also--this is just a request BTW--can you please change your signature at the bottom of your posts?

Sorry, can't do !

My personal signature tells one of my core beliefs.

Or at least make the picture a bit smaller? It's confusing to scroll through everything, and it's disorienting when your signature has more content than your posts.

I might consider resizing the image,
if you can do me a favour and get rid of your unaesthetic "mouse"

Deal ?

[QM Moderators Team]

Salam Hicham9, when you write in Arabic, could you please translate? I can basically read Arabic, but I don't understand it, especially when it doesn't have diacriticals. I honestly have no idea what you just typed up there.

Try google translate, or learn Arabic !

Please kindly immediately cease posting Arabic text without providing a translation. This is a condition of the forum policy. Please do not circumvent this again.

1 (e)    The default language of this forum is English. The only other language that will be permitted is Arabic with the proviso that an appropriate translation in English is provided.

Also--this is just a request BTW--can you please change your signature at the bottom of your posts?

Sorry, can't do !

My personal signature tells one of my core beliefs.

The topic of earth being flat will not ensue on this forum any longer as it has been considered exhausted for the purposes of this forum. Please kindly remove your signature going forward.

Thank you!

[hicham9]

Ok, I'll edit my signature as soon as i get to my laptop.

Natheless, may i ask why are ye censoring what the minority wants to discuss ?

I thought this was a "quran-alone" forum ?! Doesn't the Quran advocate a planate earth ?!?