Ayat 65 Of Surat Nisa'i: We Owe This To The Prophet.

[Abu Hafsat]

 Peace to one and all,
In Ayat 65 of Surat Nisa'i of the Holy Qur'an (4:65), Allahu Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala, says:--

       "BUT NO! BY YOUR LORD! THEY WILL NEVER TRULY BELIEVE UNTIL THEY MAKE YOU (Muhammad) THE JUDGE OF
        WHAT IS IN DISPUTE BETWEEN THEM AND FIND WITHIN THEMSELVES NO DISLIKE OF THAT WHICH YOU DECIDE,
        AND THEY SUBMIT WITH FULL SUBMISSION."

 With this, it is as if Allah, Azzah Wa Jallah, is saying that this affair is not like they assume... that they can connect to Allah without the necessity of following His Messenger, alaihi Sallatu-Wassalam. "THEY WILL NEVER TRULY BELIEVE", in Me and in you O Muhammad, "UNTIL THEY MAKE YOU THE JUDGE", ie make you the criterion of judgement regarding their rights;  "...AND FIND WITHIN THEMSELVES NO DISLIKE OF THAT WHICH YOU DECIDE", ie they find no constraints or distress in what you have judged in your judgement; "..AND THEY SUBMIT WITH FULL SUBMISSION"-- ie that they confine themselves completely and perfectly to all your judgements throughly, and be guided in all they do by your decisions, as a covenant between you and them.

 This Ayat is an answer to those who claim that it is sufficient for them in their religion to follow the Book of Allah only, without following the Sunnah of His Messenger. They claim that the Sunnah and the Prophetic Traditions have weaknesses and obscurities. Whoever claims thus faces the danger of disbelief (Kufr) as this Noble Ayat clarifies. Beware!!
       

[Hassan A]

Salaam Abu Hafsat,

Your citing of Surah Nisa'i verse 65 (4:65) as evidence/prove that we are required to follow and uphold other source besides the Quran is misleading, for two reasons.

The first, and main reason, why it is misleading is because Allah has already instructed us (including the prophet) to judge ONLY by/with the Quran, as evident by the following verse:

"And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. SO JUDGE BETWEEN THEM BY WHAT ALLAH HAS REVEALED and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ." [Quran 5:48]

So, with respect to the Surah and verse you cited (4:65) in which the prophet is being instructed to judge between their disputes, it is clear, as per the above surah and verse which I cited (5:48), that he is expected to judge ONLY by what Allah has reveled to him (which is the Quran).

It is common knowledge, among all those who have read and studied the Quran, that one of the names used for the Quran is 'Al-Furqan; which means the criterion between right and wrong. Which only further supports the claim that the prophet would have used it (the Quran ONLY) to judge his community.

HOW THE QURAN DESCRIBES ITSELF
http://quransmessage.com/articles/how%20the%20quran%20describes%20itself%20FM3.htm

The Qur’an was Muhammad’s only Revelation
http://www.detailedquran.com/quran_data/The_Only_Revelation.htm

The second reason why your usage of 4:65 as evidence/prove that we are required to follow and uphold other source besides the Quran is misleading is for the simply fact that the prophet is no longer with us. He is dead. So how can we take our disputes to a dead person? But if we accept the Quran sufficient for us as a judge, then your whole argument flies out the window.

You also said:

"This Ayat is an answer to those who claim that it is sufficient for them in their religion to follow the Book of Allah only..."

Allow me to ask you a question: Why shouldn't the Quran be sufficient enough for us to follow? How can you say that the Quran, which makes the following claims, "is not sufficient for us"?:

The Quran claims to be a fully detailed explanation (Arabic: fussilat 41:3; 11:1)

It claims to be a guidance without a doubt (2:2-3).

It claims to be the perfect guidance (Arabic: hudan 2:2).

It claims to be a clear convincing proof (Arabic: burhan (4:174).

It claims to be the ultimate scale (Arabic: mizan, 42:17; 57:25).

It claims to be the discernment between truth and falsehood (Arabic: Furqan 25:1, 2:53).

It claims to be an evidence absolutely clear (Arabic: bayyina 20:133).

It claims to be a clear explanation of all matters (Arabic: tibiana  lekulli shayin 16:89).

It also claims to be the only source which guides to a path which is most firm, right, straight and stable (6:114; 17:9; 16:89).

Please, also, ponder over the following verse:

“ISN’T IT SUFFICIENT FOR THEM THAT WE HAVE REVEALED TO YOU the Book which is recited to them? Indeed, in it are blessings and admonition for the Believers.” [Quran 29:51]

And if, as you calim, the Quran isn't sufficent enough for us as a guide, then what purpose does it surve?

http://quransmessage.com/articles/quran%20sole%20guidance%20FM3.htm
THE QURAN STANDS ALONE AS SOLE RELIGIOUS GUIDANCE

Further more, you also said:

"without following the Sunnah of His Messenger."

Any and all religious assertions or theological standpoints/practices must find unequivocal support from the Quran; any theological standpoint whatsoever in the name of God's religion, must provide clear, unambiguous, unequivocal proof and authority from the Quran for it; as it is the Quran that is the primary and ultimate authority from God.

That being said, please provide CLEAR, EXPLICIT, UNAMBIGUOUS and UNEQUIVOCAL proof/verses from the Quran which make it incumbent upon Muslim to follow the so called 'Sunnah of Muhammad' (if that Sunnah is anything but the Quran).

Finally, allow me to post to you a question:

which version of the sunnah are you refering to? The Shia or the Sunni version? Why one and not the other? In other words, there is no single definition of Sunnah that is acceptable to all the Islamic scholars. Some say that whatever the Prophet (PBUH) said or did in private, or public, is his Sunnah. Others say that whatever is in the books of hadith is the Sunnah of the Prophet (PBUH). Still others disagree with this definition of Sunnah and say that what the Prophet (PBUH) did as a Bashar (man) is not his Sunnah; and only the things he did as a prophet comprise it. Therefore, is safe to conclude, then, that there are as many variations in the definition of Sunnah as there are sects and sub-sects in Islam. Each sect thinks its definition is the right one.

UNDERSTANDING THE TERM 'SUNNA' FROM A QURAN'S PERSPECTIVE
http://quransmessage.com/articles/understanding%20the%20sunna%20from%20a%20quran's%20perspective%20FM3.htm

Peace.

[A.H.A]

Salaam dear Abu Hafsat

First of all, I must say we need to understand this verse in its own context and surrounding verses.
[The key points are in Bold Red and Bold]

All the messengers We sent were meant to be obeyed by God's leave. If they had come to you and sought forgiveness from God whenever they wronged themselves, and the Messenger had prayed for forgiveness for them, they would have found that God is ever-forgiving and merciful. Q[4:64]^[1]

By your Lord, they will not be true believers until they seek your arbitration in their disputes and find within themselves no doubt about what you decide and accept it wholeheartedly. Q[4:65]^[2]

If We had commanded them, "Lay down your lives or leave your dwellings," they would have not done it, save a few of them. If they had done what they were instructed to do, it would have been better for them, as well as more strengthening [for their faith], Q[4:66]^[3]

From Q[4:64-66], we can conclude the following:

A messenger of God as a messenger (not as a head of state) must be obeyed by God's leave, But as a head of state he must by obeyed in that which is right (i.e. accepted by society and are not against God's command), see Q[60:12]^[4]. Therefore, Prophet (pbuh) can judge between people in their disputes as long as he is alive, by the Quran (what God has sent down) and by what is accepted by society "maAAroof", because he was both head of state and messenger of God.

We can obey our Prophet (pbuh) as messenger of God by following what God has sent down which is the Quran. But, we can not obey him as a head of state, because he is no longer alive and no longer head of state. If you noticed Q[4:64], it says "the Messenger had prayed for forgiveness for them", now if messenger in not alive how can he ask forgiveness for us or judge between our disputes?

Obeying the Messenger or making him Judge does not imply following the Sunnah or Prophetic Traditions, because there is an inconsistency here. Quran says:

Believers, obey God and obey the Messenger and those who have been entrusted with authority among you. If you are in dispute over any matter, refer it to God and the Messenger, if you truly believe in God and the Last Day: this is best, and best in the end. Q[4:59]^[5]

If "obey the Messenger" equals to "compiling sayings and actions of the Messenger and acting according to it even centuries after his death", then for sake consistency you must not have any problem to agree with me that "obey those in authority among you" equals to "compiling sayings and actions of those in authority among us acting according to it even centuries after their death". Imagine, thousands of kings, Emirs, Presidents have passed and will come.

^[1]   وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلَّا لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ ۚ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ إِذ ظَّلَمُوا أَنفُسَهُمْ جَاءُوكَ فَاسْتَغْفَرُوا اللَّهَ وَاسْتَغْفَرَ لَهُمُ الرَّسُولُ لَوَجَدُوا اللَّهَ تَوَّابًا رَّحِيمًا
^[2]   فَلَا وَرَبِّكَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ حَتَّىٰ يُحَكِّمُوكَ فِيمَا شَجَرَ بَيْنَهُمْ ثُمَّ لَا يَجِدُوا فِي أَنفُسِهِمْ حَرَجًا مِّمَّا قَضَيْتَ وَيُسَلِّمُوا تَسْلِيمًا
^[3]   وَلَوْ أَنَّا كَتَبْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ أَنِ اقْتُلُوا أَنفُسَكُمْ أَوِ اخْرُجُوا مِن دِيَارِكُم مَّا فَعَلُوهُ إِلَّا قَلِيلٌ مِّنْهُمْ ۖ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ فَعَلُوا مَا يُوعَظُونَ بِهِ لَكَانَ خَيْرًا لَّهُمْ وَأَشَدَّ تَثْبِيتًا
^[4]   يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ إِذَا جَاءَكَ الْمُؤْمِنَاتُ يُبَايِعْنَكَ عَلَىٰ أَن لَّا يُشْرِكْنَ بِاللَّهِ شَيْئًا وَلَا يَسْرِقْنَ وَلَا يَزْنِينَ وَلَا يَقْتُلْنَ أَوْلَادَهُنَّ وَلَا يَأْتِينَ بِبُهْتَانٍ يَفْتَرِينَهُ بَيْنَ أَيْدِيهِنَّ وَأَرْجُلِهِنَّ وَلَا يَعْصِينَكَ فِي مَعْرُوفٍ ۙ فَبَايِعْهُنَّ وَاسْتَغْفِرْ لَهُنَّ اللَّهَ ۖ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ
^[5]   يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنكُمْ ۖ فَإِن تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِن كُنتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلًا

[Star]

Quran 5:48 clearly tells Muhammad to judge by ONLY WHAT ALLAH HAS REVEALED. Did He reveal Bukhari's book of hadiths? No. Allah revealed the Quran, Torah, Bible, etc...NOT the hadith compilations.

Prophets are only allowed to deliver the message that God gives them:

"And obey God and obey the messenger and be cautious; but if you turn back, then know that the sole duty of the messenger is the deliverance (of the message)" 5:92

Why on Earth would Allah order us to obey a contradictory, often nonsensical and man-made book of hadiths, when we have the Quran? Everything we need to know to obey Muhammad's orders is in the Quran. Hadith books, however, are full of innovations, some of which clearly contradict Quranic teachings. We advise you to check out the links Hassan provided.

Some people ask whether the Quran gives the details of prayer or zakah percentage. It doesn't tell us exactly how to pray or exactly how much zakah to give, and that's the point. The author of the Quran is entrusting us with the responsibility to pray in our own sincere manner and give however much zakah we deem reasonable.

Look at this verse:

31.27:  If all the trees in the earth were pens and the ocean, with seven more oceans, were ink still these could not suffice to record all the Words of God. God is Majestic and All-wise.

Allah doesn't run out of words. He told us everything He needs to tell us in the Quran. He didn't need to wait for some arrogant sheikh to elaborate upon His rules. His rules are complete, and anything not mentioned in the Quran is up to our own legislation. It's part of our responsibility to judge fairly and reasonably.

Conclusion: Yes we have to obey the Prophet, and since the Quran says it is fully detailed, it contains everything we need to obey the Prophet. Logical deduction.


Seriously, life becomes a lot easier when we stop worrying about this hadith and that hadith. Muslims have divided themselves into way too many sects despite how the Quran clearly says NOT to. And they're all disputing over which hadith is right and which is wrong and whether music is allowed or not (which it is, BTW). When people stop following Bukhari and Muslim's books, these things become non-issues. It's not hard, world.

[Star]

Also, there are some instances in the Quran of hadiths being condemned:


[Quran 7:185] Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all the things God has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their life may be near? Which HADITH, besides this (Quran) do they believe in?

[Quran 31:6] Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless HADITH, and thus divert others from the path of God without knowledge, and take it in vain. These have incurred a shameful retribution.

[Quran 39:23] God has revealed herein the BEST HADITH; a book that is consistent and points out both ways (to heaven and hell). The skins of those who reverence their Lord cringe therefrom, then their skins and their hearts soften up for God's message. Such is God's guidance; he bestows it upon whomever He wills. As for those sent astray by God, nothing can guide them.

[Quran 45:6] These are God's revelations (Quran) that we recite to you truthfully. In which HADITH other than God and His revelations do they believe?

[Quran 52:34] Let them produce a HADITH like this (Quran) if they are truthful.

[Quran 68:44] Therefore, let Me deal with those who reject this HADITH(Quran); we will lead them on whence they never perceive.

[Quran 77:50] Which HADITH other than this do they uphold?

(source: submission.org)


Hadiths are any saying or alleged saying, whether it's a saying of Muhammad's or not. Allah is telling us here that His book is enough and that we don't need these hadiths.

You can find whatever you want in hadith books. You can make Muhammad into a nobleman and a perfect ruler, or you can make him into a murderer and a rapist. Critics of Islam use hadiths regarded as "sahih" to say derogatory things about Islam, and Muslims use them to defend Islam. And if you take every hadith as fact, then you're accepting a whole bunch of contradictory information.

Please see:

http://quransmessage.com/articles/hadith%20tension%20FM3.htm

http://quransmessage.com/(7)%20Updates/hadith%20-%20bukhari%20FM2%20-%20live.htm


With respect, I really think you should look at these links and think about this.

[Abu Hafsat]

 As-Salaam alaikum,

 Looks like my above post on Ayat 65 of Surat Nisa'i (4:65) of the Holy Qur'an has drawn a lot of comments... some of which look like 'refutations'.  I would like to say and/or observe that I stand by that Post... every word, every phrase. And I do accept the 6 standard books of Hadith in Islam: Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi, Abu- Dawud, Nisa'i, and Ibn Majah.

 At the risk of 'standing in the way' again, I will have to cite another Hadith to make my point to which I am entitled, and will be held accountable. The Noble Messenger of Allah, Sallallahu alaihi Wasallam, said:--

      "LET ME NOT FIND ONE OF YOU, RECLINING ON HIS COUCH, WHEN HE HEARS SOMETHING REGARDING WHAT I HAVE
       COMMANDED OR FORBIDDEN SAYING 'WE DO NOT KNOW. WHAT WE FOUND IN ALLAH'S BOOK WE HAVE FOLLOWED'. [Abu Dawud].

 Again, this is a good reminder against today's casual attitude with which some Muslims, unfortunately, discard the Sunnah of our Prophet, peace be upon him. Allahu, Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala, repeatedly links obedience to Him to obedience of His Messenger.. for example, He says:--

              "AND WHOEVER OBEYS THE MESSENGER, THEREBY OBEYS ALLAH." (4:80) and "WHATEVER THE MESSENGER GIVES YOU,
                TAKE IT, AND WHATEVER HE FORBIDS YOU, REFRAIN FROM IT." (59:7)... there are many other Ayats of the Qur'an itself
               condemning having a 'Qur'an only' approach.

 To divorce the Sunnah from Islam is to reduce Islam ineffective... the Qur'an directs us to pray, but without the Sunnah, how would we know how to pray?  The Qur'an directs us to pay/give Zakkat, but without the Sunnah, how would we calculate and know the items from which to give/pay Zakkat?.....

[Star]

Salam

The Quran tells us how to pray, just not specifically. The specifics are left to the situation and culture.

http://quransmessage.com/articles/prayer%20without%20hadith%20FM3.htm

http://quransmessage.com/articles/the%20five%20prayers%20from%20the%20quran%20FM3.htm

http://quransmessage.com/articles/3%20or%205%20prayers%20FM3.htm

And on zakah:

http://quransmessage.com/articles/zakah%20FM3.htm

We are ordered to pay zakah from what is reasonable. Everything else is left up to our financial situation.

And speaking of this, where do the hadiths tell us, specifically, rakah by rakah, how to pray?? And why do you follow the ablution given in hadiths when the Quran has a perfectly good (and much shorter) version?

Hadiths mess things up. The Quran simplifies things.

Please see:

https://www.facebook.com/Quransmessage/posts/623078324405578

Your argument is a common one issued against Quran-centric thinking, and it's been refuted ages ago.

The Quran-centric approach does not get rid of all hadiths, by the way. We filter hadiths through the lens of the Quran and get wisdom from the good ones. However, hadiths do not hold any religious authority in themselves. Only God gets to issue decrees. If Bukhari starts laying down his own laws in God's name, that's to his own detriment.

Just our take on things Please see the articles, they'll explain a lot

[Hassan A]

Salaam Abu Hafsat,

You asked:

the Qur'an directs us to pray, but without the Sunnah, how would we know how to pray?  The Qur'an directs us to pay/give Zakkat, but without the Sunnah, how would we calculate and know the items from which to give/pay Zakkat?

Before I answer your questions I would like to make a few points of my own, so bear with me.

The Quran claims to be a book (full) of guidance and one which guides to a path which is most firm, right, straight and stable (see: 31:3; 17:9; 2:2-3; 17:9; 16:89). For a book to guide, it would follow that said book would contain all info, details and practices necessary for our guidance and which would therefore lead to that guidance. But if we are to accept the argument that all or some of the rituals and practices which are necessary for our guidance cannot be found in the Quran and can therefore only be found in other sources, is to concede to the idea that the Quran is not necessarily a book “of guidance”. Because how can it, on the one hand claim/call itself a "book of guidance/a guidance for mankind", and yet on the other hand omit things the very thing necessary for our guidance? In such instance the Quran would only contain “half guidance”.

The Quran also claims to be a fully detailed explanation (Arabic: fussilat 41:3; 11:1), the perfect guidance (Arabic: hudan 2:2), a clear convincing proof (Arabic: burhan (4:174), the ultimate scale (Arabic: mizan 42.17; 57:25), the discernment between truth and falsehood (Arabic: Furqan 25:1, 2:53), an evidence absolutely clear (Arabic: bayyina 20:133) and a clear explanation of all matters (Arabic: tibiana  lekulli shayin 16:89). A scripture cannot make these fanciful claims and yet on the other-hand not provide necessary details for human guidance as part of God ordained 'religion', or claimed to be (by some) incomplete, lacking details, and in need/dependent on other/secondary sources. 

Along with that, the Quran also claims to be 'fussilat' (explained in detail). A scripture cannot be 'fussilat' and then not provide necessary details for human guidance as part of God ordained 'religion'. So why wouldn't Allah, as your question seems to suggest, mention the details of the salat in the quran? What reason would Allah have not to detail it in the quran? Or are you suggesting that Allah forgot to mention such details in the quran or that He ran out of words and thus left it up to fallibale men to give mention to it? 

So with respect to the salat, zakat, and all the other Islamic rituals which you claim are not mentioned/detailed in the Quran, I am compaled to ask: why would Allah, on the one hand, mention those rituals in the Quran and command us (on more than one occasion) to uphold them and yet, on the other hand, fail to mention how/in what manner they should be upheld? Why didn’t Allah, in the same breath (while commanding us to uphold those practices/rituals) also given mention/explain as to how they should be performed? Are we to assume Allah forgot or that He ran out of words?

So what are we to think of a scripture (i.e the Quran) that repeatedly emphasizes a certain act/practice (such as salah and zakat) but never explains (as you claim) how to perform said act/practice? The conclusion drawn would be that said scripture is a terrible omission and in that case it cannot be from God.

With all that said, Onto answering you questions.

On the questions of how to pray the salat while upholding the Quran alone, the following site answers that Question:

HOW CAN WE LEARN PRAYER IF WE DON'T HAVE HADITH TO TEACH US?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/prayer%20without%20hadith%20FM3.htm

On the question of zakat and how it should be payed while upholding the Quran alone, the following site also answers that:

WHAT IS THE CONCEPT OF ZAKAT FROM THE QURAN?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/zakah%20FM3.htm

With respect to the above site which explains zakat (and how it should be payed) from a Quran perspective, I would like to add the following to it:

We do not find in the Quran any percentage of Zakat we are to pay. We note that the traditional percentage of 2.5% has no Quranic reference. Yet, in the Quran we have very strong evidence that God never set a fixed percentage for the payment of Zakat. The evidence to this truth is found in the following verses:  "You shall give the due alms to the relatives, the needy, the poor, and the travelling alien, but do not be excessive, extravagant.  "The extravagant are brethren of the devils, and the devil is unappreciative of his Lord.  "Even if you have to turn away from them, as you pursue the mercy of your Lord, you shall treat them in the nicest manner.  "You shall not keep your hand stingily tied to your neck, nor shall you foolishly open it up, lest you end up blamed and sorry" 17:26-29  The words "due alms" in verse 26 speak of an obligatory payment which means that the subject here is the Zakat which is an obligatory charity. With this in mind, the words in verse 29 become very significant:

"You shall not keep your hand stingily tied to your neck, nor shall you foolishly open it up, lest you end up blamed and sorry"  We must meditate on these words a while and pose the question: If the traditional 2.5% rate is from God, then why would God command us not to be stingy nor too extravagant? Surely following a fixed 2.5% rate would not give rise to a situation where anyone would be stingy nor too extravagant! The command not to be stingy nor too extravagant confirm that the percentage is NOT fixed, but is flexible and that it has been left to each individuals means.

Finally, for you to suggest that the rituals you’ve alluded to (salat, zakat) aren’t mentioned in the Quran, means you are, in a sense, suggesting that the Quran is not complete nor fully detailed (despite Allah saying otherwise). Please ask yourself why issues/matters which Allah highly commands us to fulfill more than once in the Quran and are so vital for our salvations and guidance would not, as you seem to suggest, be mentioned in the Quran as to how to perform them? What use does the Quran serve if, as you suggest, it fails to mention how (and in what manner) we are to perform the very rituals it so demanding-ly instructs us to uphold?

[Hamzeh]

Wa alykum asalam


Dear Abu Hafsat

Just some questions for you below which I find you will agree considering you believe in the Quran.

Do you agree that the Quran was first revealed to a human being by the name of Muhammad(pbuh)?

(47:2) But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad-for it is the Truth from their Lord― He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition.

Do you agree prophet Muhammad was ordered to follow the Quran? 10:109, 33:02, 10:15, 6:106

Do you agree that the Quran was the only inspiration prophet Muhammad received guidance and to warn mankind? 6:19, 27:91-92

Do you agree that the prophet Muhammad was ordered by God to recite the Quran to his people who were arabic speaking folks?

41:3 A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail / distinguished; a Quran in Arabic, for people who understand,
42:7 And thus We have inspired in thee a Lecture in Arabic, that thou mayst warn the mother-town and those around it, and mayst warn of a day of assembling whereof there is no doubt. A host will be in the Garden, and a host of them in the Flame.

Do you agree that the Quran was not revealed to them all at once and it was recited to them piece by piece when God has ordered the recitation?

25:32 Those who reject Faith say: "Why is not the Qur'an revealed to him all at once?" Thus (is it revealed) that We may strengthen thy heart thereby, and We have rehearsed it to thee in slow, well-arranged stages gradually.
17:106 (It is) a Qur'an which We have divided (into parts from time to time), in order that thou mightest recite it to men at intervals: We have revealed it by stages.
75.016-19 Do not move your tongue with it to make haste with it. Surely on Us (rests) the collecting of it and the reciting of it. Therefore when We have recited it, follow its recitation. Again on Us (rests) the explaining of it”

Do you agree that God did not inspire the Quran to everyones heart and only the prophet Muhammad?

Considering you agree with the questions above, would it be safe to say that the Quran should be viewed from the lenses of the prophet and his people in his time? Despite the fact that its a timeless revelation no doubt about that.

Do you agree that the messenger of God is somewhat connected to the message of God since God did not inspire each individual separately? If you kindly consider this you will realize that in order to follow God it is attached by following the messenger of God with the message that he has been given.

Every messenger God sends to a nation was expected to be followed. By that I mean obeyed while he was living among them.
4:64 We sent not a messenger, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah. If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful.

Prophet Muhammad was no different. God instructed the prophet how to carry out his mission through the Quran. When you keep in mind to view the Quran from the eyes and ears of the people who were first receiving it, the verses you mentioned are not so difficult to read and understand.

"AND WHOEVER OBEYS THE MESSENGER, THEREBY OBEYS ALLAH." (4:80) and "WHATEVER THE MESSENGER GIVES YOU,
                TAKE IT, AND WHATEVER HE FORBIDS YOU, REFRAIN FROM IT." (59:7)... there are many other Ayats of the Qur'an itself
               condemning having a 'Qur'an only' approach.

Verse 4:80 should be viewed and based on the people who never yet received the full Quran. Because it would be impossible to obey Allah without receiving the message from the messenger who is in the process of spreading the message to his people.

Verse 59:7 if read in context with its remaining parts of the verse and the surrounding verses which you should verify, you will instantly realize its speaking about the bounty of wars left behind. It would be no different than a head of state or government assessing what is given to the people and what is not of some bounty.

Another verse for example
3:31 Say: "If ye do love Allah, Follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins: For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
This is a instruction to the prophet to his people. If you keep in mind and consideration that these people do not have the Quran and are being introduced to a new way and religion of God. It was expected of them to follow the prophet for he will bring them Gods message and show them the right way.

At the same stroke they were expected to not take any other authority other than the Quran.

7:2 Follow (O men!) the revelation given unto you from your Lord, and follow not, as friends or protectors, other than Him. Little it is ye remember of admonition.

45:6 "These are the verses of God that We recite to you with truth. Then in what 'Hadith' (statement / narrative) after God and His 'Ayat' (verses) will they believe?"

68:36-39 What is the matter with you? How judge ye? (36) Or have ye a Book through which ye learn― (37) That ye shall have, through it whatever ye choose? (38) Or have ye Covenants with Us on oath, reaching to the Day of Judgment, (providing) that ye shall have whatever ye shall demand?

And there are many many more verses giving this message.

The prophet was not prohibited from making decisions and consulting his people in the matters of society and religion. As long as they fit and sided with the Qurans guidance and did not contravene them.
3:159 It is part of the Mercy of Allah that thou dost deal gently with them. Wert thou severe or harsh-hearted they would have broken away from about thee; so pass over (their faults), and ask for (Allah's) forgiveness for them; and consult them in affairs (of moment). Then when thou hast taken a decision, put thy trust in Allah. For Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him). (159) If Allah helps you, none can overcome you: if He forsakes you, who is there after that that can help you? In Allah, then, let believers put their trust.

Please see this article below for sincere answers to questions about prayer that confounds many. [1]

Zakat from the hadith books are very complicated and also do not make any sense. It is said that the zakat is to be paid at a rate of 2.5% from the savings one has. A question arises despite the fact that the Quran orders the zakat to be paid from the profit/harvest instead of the savings.
Lets just calculate zakat from the traditional perspective and you will find it hard calculating the value of depreciating assets. For example, two people with the same vehicle asking different price for that same vehicle. How do you calculate the value of the property value at a depreciating or appreciating asset when its not sold.

If you use the other method of the Quran you will realize that it expects the zakat to be paid only on profit. So what ever you sold something for minus price paid. Will equal the profit. If you are a worker what ever you profit from your work and labor is considered a gain. If your a farmer the harvest you pick is your gain.

The silence of the amount to be paid in the Quran is not something that should be used to advocate the hadith. The fact the zakat has to be paid is the commandment. So the people are instructed to come up with a fair tax/zakat system. this may change from time to time. God knows best.

Please also see the article on Zakat [2].

Peace

A SIMPLE INSTRUCTION CONFOUNDS MANY - 'ESTABLISH SALAAT'
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/487157614754704

ZAKAT
http://quransmessage.com/articles/zakah%20FM3.htm

[samson]

Abuse Hafsat,

Can you please tell me which hadith describes how to pray?

Thanks

[A.H.A]

Peace Samson

If the using of "Abuse Hafsat" is not intentional, please correct it. It violates Forum policy: http://quransmessage.com/forum/policy

[samson]

Peace Samson

If the using of "Abuse Hafsat" is not intentional, please correct it. It violates Forum policy: http://quransmessage.com/forum/policy

Yes it was definitely not intentional. My apologies to Abu Hafsat.

I'm not able to edit. Can one of the sys admins amend it?

Thanks

[Star]

LOL, one of the mods can fix that I think. Not your fault.

The Quran is fully detailed. We do not need hadiths. I think all possible evidence has been provided on this issue. It's up to those concerned to make their decision