Geocentrism and Flat Earth in Quran II

[hicham9]

And, plz stop attacking my persona by calling me a "troll" when you can't even find a single qurānic evidence in support of your imaginary "spinning ball" ! Mind you, resorting to ad hominem won't make the things you say anymore valid.

Salute

[hicham9]

1)Do you hold to the believe  that the earth is flat and geocentric from a theological perspective or from a scientific/astrological perspective?

This is a loaded question !

In my book, there are no contradictions between the Qurān and Reality.
Both lead to a stable, planate earth.

2)If even satellite images from NASA and the ISS aren't enough to convince you, then what more proof would like us to over?

Sorry but pictures/videos from the suspect/s (Freemasonic NASA and other government “space agencies”) cannot be accepted in my court. As already pointed out, these fake stuff - and thus are not worthy of trust.

3)What proof do you have with respect to your view (i.e. the earth is flat and geocentric)?

Earth's flatness/levelness is an observable, living fact.



The reason you belie your eyes is because you were conditioned since childhood to believe it's a ball, when according to both scripture and empirical evidence it's not !

Wake up, people !

And what makes those "proofs" any more credible than the ones we offer?

Here's an example of a credible, genuine evidence.

Take into consideration that - from a scientific point of view - 121,000 ft is waaay above the required altitude.

Let there be light !

سلام

[Seraphina]

Salamun alaikum brothers and sisters,
This thread catched my attention, and im truly surprised and sorry at the same time! I could understand an arab living in a dessert while the Quran was being revealed, bcs at that time most nations believed earth was flat and sun moves, but today, in this era for someone to have such ideas? im speechless and by the way when the Quran says sun moves it says nowhere that it moves around the earth! It says they have their appointed way and time.
"Yes, the Sun - in fact, our whole solar system - orbits around the center of the Milky Way Galaxy. We are moving at an average velocity of 828,000 km/hr. But even at that high rate, it still takes us about 230 million years to make one complete orbit around the Milky Way! The Milky Way is a spiral galaxy."
Source: starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/StarChild/questions/question18.html
See? even a child is easily convinced by the proofs science has nowadays.
Earth looks flat to us who dwell on it, but in reality is egg shaped It moves around itself and around the sun at the same time in a great speed and yet we who dwell on it feel anything of its move, to us its a fixed, secured place. Thats what Quran says and thats what science says. No other way around it.
God bless you all,
Seraphina

[Hassan A]

The delusive picture you provided cannot be accepted as genuine evidence of a "ball-earth" simply because it suffers from distortion, an optical aberration

So why should we accept the images you provide? Again, you're Cherry Picking by citing images when it suits/supports you argument and you dismiss those provided by others when it goes against your view. By the way, with regards to the images you provided in you last reply to me, I would like to ask: At what altitude where they taken from? because if taken from a low altitude, then yes the earth looks flat. But if taken from a much higher altitude, then the earth would appear its natural shape (spherical).

Sorry but pictures/videos from the suspect/s (Freemasonic NASA and other government “space agencies”) cannot be accepted in my court

With all due respect, I fill I am arguing with a conspiracy theorist. And if that be the case, then perhaps it would be best for me to end this "debate" and squander my time elsewhere.

Furthermore, (even though you've already been provided some) I would like to ask why there needs to be scriptural evidence of the shape and position of the earth in our solar system? The Quran wasn't mean't to touch on every single subject under the sun. But what the Quran suggests is that you/we go out and observe/study our surrounding/the universe.:

"There are certainly Signs in the earth for people with certainty; and in yourselves as well. Do you not then see?" [Surat adh-Dhariyat, 20-21].

By the way, that videos you provided gives a view from only 23 miles up, only 1/3 of the way to space. Therefore, to see the 'horizon curve' you would need to go much higher than that. Furthermore, the fact that (in the video) you can only see so far is proof enough that the earth is curved. If it was flat, you would be able to see at extreme distances with very little vertical movement. With that said, here's a pic from roughly 250 miles up, though am sure you won't hesitate to dismiss it as 'not-genuine' enough:



And here's a good discussion over at 'Reddit' which further disputes the supposed "proof" the video you provided is putting out:

https://www.reddit.com/r/theworldisflat/comments/3pvg5l/121000_feet_little_piggy_cam_high_altitude/

Feel free to visit it; but I warn you: it will challenge your deeply held views/beliefs, so proceed with caution.

[hicham9]

Dear Hassan,

I have presented you with a scientific paper testifying that 121,000 ft is OVER the required altitude SQUARED ! As such, i recommend you actually read it, if you wish to correct your misconception.

As for the layered image you picked from the untrustworthy, freemasonic NASA who fake pictures and videos, well IT'S FAKE !!! The BG was clearly taken with a curvilinear lens :



& AGAIN, here's how the planate earth really looks like when seen aloft the ozone layer, over the Caucasus Mountains region :


Photograph by Denis Efremov © 2015 Project AirPano (Flight to Stratosphere)

As FLAT as a CARPET !

If you wish to ignore/belie evidence (from reality and the Quran) out of confirmation bias, then be my guest; reject the Truth for the sake of charlatans and freemasons ! To ye your judgment and deeds, and to me mine.

سلام

[Hassan A]

Salaam hicham9,

I have presented you with a scientific paper testifying that 121,000 ft is OVER the required altitude SQUARED ! As such, i recommend you actually read it, if you wish to correct your misconception.

I plan to read that paper, God-willing.

Also, what makes the images you provided trustworthy and those taken from NASA and the ISS fake and untrustworthy? Again, Cherry Picking.

If you wish to ignore/belie evidence (from reality and the Quran)...then be my guest

With all dues respect, I can say the same about you; if you intent on rejecting the ample evidence we've already provided you (both from scripture as well as NASA/ISS) then you're free to do so.

To ye your judgment and deeds, and to me mine.

It's obvious we won't convince one another. So, believe what you will and I shall believe what I will.

[hicham9]

Salute @Hassan !

Why do you accuse me of "cherry picking" when it's only normal for me to back up my claim/s ?! Had i not provided evidence my case would have been baseless and ye would have accused me of lying (as Mia started to emply) ! How does presenting evidence for a case = "cherry picking ?! What kind of reasoning is this !!! :/

Withal, which part of NASA fakes stuff you couldn't understand ?! :\

Can you plz enlighten my ignorance by explaining the following phenomenon from a heliocentric point of view ?!




سلام

[Star]

Hi everyone...

Hicham9: Sorry about the calling-you-a-troll thing. It's just that you were saying pretty unbelievable things, so I thought you might be trolling. However, it's apparent to me now that you really believe in this "flat-earth theory" and are not merely trolling, so let's go from there.

I fully back up Brother Hassan's allegation of cherry-picking. Don't provide your own photo evidence if you're unwilling to accept the evidence given by others.

As for your allegation of "rolling shutter": That picture was taken by a satellite, NOT a normal camera. There is no such thing as a camera mistake where this picture is concerned.

I think I should respond to your idea that NASA is composed of Freemasons. This is ridiculous, unsupported, and illogical. NASA is a respectable organization that I plan to work for, God willing, if I get my aero engineering degree. NASA is not composed of liars, and it DOES launch space shuttles and send people to the moon in real life. I've seen an actual shuttle launch from the Kennedy space station in Florida.

Do not accuse random NASA members of lying and forging fake pictures. You don't know what you're doing.

Seraphina: Hi! You're right, this IS quite an "interesting" thread. We've been trying to convince brother Hicham9 that the earth is round for ages, but he's not buying it. If you have evidence to offer, we'd appreciate it...LOL, the absurdity of this situation is getting to me.

And as you said, yeah, the sun moves around the Milky Way, and the Quran alludes to this. Cool.

On a random and off-topic note (sorry admin), you have a really pretty name. There's a YA book called Seraphina. It's about dragons. I read it a while ago. I think you should read it.

Hassan A: Hicham9 gave us a picture to "explain" from a heliocentric POV. I don't really get what the picture is supposed to be saying. Hicham9, can you explain???

And yes, Hicham9, you are cherry-picking. Please stop.

Mariyah

[Star]

I think Brother Joseph is rather desperately needed right now. This is like an absurd game of children's debate.

[Star]

In Hicham9's picture, is the sun supposed to be shining on the water and creating a rectangular patch of light? If so, it STILL doesn't prove anything. Seen from the current frontal perspective, the sunlight would naturally seem to cast a slightly rectangular glow. If you moved perspective over to a bird's-eye view, the patch of light would look round.

[Hassan A]

Salaam hicham9,

Why do you accuse me of "cherry picking"

Because that's what you're doing. Every time mia666 and I provided you images (from NASA) you dismiss them as fake and untrustworthy on the grounds that they are "distorted" yet give no similar concern to those that you provide.

Mind me asking who took the images you provide/ed? And what makes them more credible than those from NASA and the ISS?

which part of NASA fakes stuff you couldn't understand ?

The part about it being fake. And by the way, what makes it/them 'fake'? And fake compared to what?

[Seraphina]

Brother Joseph, please come at our rescue I compart with you Mariyah on this one - only brother Joseph's arguments about this issue from Quran's perspective can help open Hicham's eyes (and ours as well). May Allah protect him wherever he is.
And Mariyah, thank you for your kind words - i will look up that book, you've awaked my curiosity your name is a pretty one too :*
Your sister Seraphina

[hicham9]

I think I should respond to your idea that NASA is composed of Freemasons. This is ridiculous, unsupported, and illogical. NASA is a respectable organization that I plan to work for, God willing, if I get my aero engineering degree. NASA is not composed of liars, and it DOES launch space shuttles and send people to the moon in real life. I've seen an actual shuttle launch from the Kennedy space station in Florida. Do not accuse random NASA members of lying and forging fake pictures. You don't know what you're doing.

Do your homework !

[Hassan A]

Salaam hicham9,

If I may, I would like to add one more thing. The following site lists several indisputable facts which supports the earth being round:

http://www.smarterthanthat.com/astronomy/top-10-ways-to-know-the-earth-is-not-flat/

"If you’ve been next to a port lately, or just strolled down a beach and stared off vacantly into the horizon, you might have...noticed a very interesting phenomenon: approaching ships do not just “appear” out of the horizon (like they should have if the world was flat), but rather emerge from beneath the sea...."

Feel free to visit it and share with me any rebuttals you may have of/to it.

[hicham9]

Clearly, i'm talking to walls here !!!

@Hassan, i understand that you can NEVER explain the evident hotspot of the close/small sun/lamp over the clouds from a heliocentric point of view, which proves that heliocentrism is a joke based on nix but blind faith in charlatans ! Though, the least thing i expect you to understand is that NASA fakes stuff, like the following 2002 image of the fake "ball-earth" :



If you can't understand this simple fact,
then be my guest and live in denial (consumed by cognitive dissonance).

سلام