Im hypocrite destined to the Hell :/

[good logic]

Peace Mia .
You said,quote:
The information you stated about jinn in people's souls is from a hadith. It's probably not true, so no need to worry

I wonder what these verses mean?:

50:27
قالَ قَرينُهُ رَبَّنا ما أَطغَيتُهُ وَلٰكِن كانَ فى ضَلٰلٍ بَعيدٍ
50:28
قالَ لا تَختَصِموا لَدَىَّ وَقَد قَدَّمتُ إِلَيكُم بِالوَعيدِ
Just curious.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[ZKAB90]

Salam ZKAB90,

The information you stated about jinn in people's souls is from a hadith. It's probably not true, so no need to worry

Just because you insulted Allah once, that doesn't mean you're beyond hope. You're obviously feeling sorry for what you did, so just make sincere repentance. Verse 7:180 is only talking about those who mock God and don't repent. As Seraphina stated earlier, God forgives all sins.

"Say, "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah . Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful."(39:53)

If you're having trouble believing in angels and such things, keep in mind that God created the universe. The universe itself is quite fascinating and unbelievable. But God, clearly, managed to create it--and He can create whatever He wants to. If He wants to create angels and jinn, then He can make them.

You said you were raised an atheist. That's probably part of the issue. I'm just wondering, how did you find out about the Quran and all this?

I hope you figure this out soon

Aleikum salam Mariyah;

Well, atheism is a paradoxal phenomenon at my experience because:

a/ is atheism which keep me away from all the religious claims but

b/ when I hear about scientific miracles in the Qu'ran I quickly interested into. No one had really really really impressed me but numerological ones surely they have. Look here: http://www.harunyahya.com/tr/works/47517/Miracles-Of-The-Quran---volume-3/chapter/14369/Mathematical-miracles-of-the-Qur%E2%80%99an-Part-1
to the ratio of the sea to the land and Unlocking the Quran code by Elardi Bouqtib, a follower of Rashad Khalifa http://realquran.net/resources/unlocking-the-quran-code/46-unlocking-the-quran-codebyelarbi-bouqdib

So, Islam (the real one, no the Hadiths-shaped, although without Hadiths we don't know how Muhammad lived) is the true religion because:

a/ is an atheist one religion --> it destroy all the illusions, the false gods, the capitalist celebrities which TV and fashion want to believe in;

b/ and at the same time it is a no-atheist religion one because it teach us into the real God.

Nevertheless, and despite all this philosophical stuff, I feel trapped into the primary atheist belief, I can't reach yet the next step, the magical-world (angels, jinns, etc) which exist in a different dimension (it can be at the same time in the our dimension, like a parallele on).

Allah guide who He want....

[relearning]

Well i dont understand the hadis rejecters that they claim it has no authority on religion. I wonder how they approach bible, torah and gospels. Are they have any value on religion of people of book? I am not a hadis supporter completely or advocater of this group but it seems to me in this forum the approach to see hadis useless is a double standart when it comes to value bible torah and gospels.

First of all they are also written a hundres years later of their source like hadis.
Second they are mainly the views of believers who are not the direct addresseee of the message its throught the lens of scholars or students of that religion. Same holds for hadis.
Third As God doesnt promise to protect Hadis He also doesnt promise to protect the message of Bible torah and gospels in fact they are third persons's views like hadis.

Even hadis and canonical bible and torah have the same defections God doesnt void them null or value them as useless because of their natural defects in fact God still want people of book to follow them. Is not it a dilemma? That we people are more strict than God regarding valuing the old sources? We are easly sharing a script from bible and torah in our facebook to give our followers an insight of reality when it comes to a share a hadis which also gives an enlightment we avoid because of the fear we may be labeled as hadis supporter. Hadis has goods and bads as bible and torah had. So completely ignoring hadis and saying it has no value on our religion is like completely ignoring bible and torah which were present at the time of prophet in which quran asks people of book to follow them.

I would ask any follower of Prophet with sincerity would not you like to at least learn how prophet interpreted quran like you wonder how this of scholars of our time interpreted? Yes there may be some wrong ideas in it but would you be pleased to follow  to query to know the value of such historical records with caution ofcourse. Instead we quran centric people want to completely get rid of hadis collections as if they are shamefull side of Islam history. No we can choose the middle way not complete rejection or complete acceptence but we can find some insights in them. But no one has a right to behave them as garbage. It was their best efforts it was their struggle. What Mark, Mathew, Luke, Paul, John did in bible thats why now we have a book called bible its same that hadis scholars did we must congratulate them but not to surrender to them ofcourse.

Also quran hiddenly force us to know about old books because sometimes to make complete understanding of a story you need to know the bible or torah whether they are corrupted and man made!(written by men apart from messengers).

So to kick hadis collection and treating it like a step child is not the middle way i guess and also to know our complete rejection of hadis creates enmity between many brothers who are also muslims so if at least we can take a step and say yes we value hadis collection as historical records of islam community and we accept ones which goes side by side quran but for the parts which contradicts with quran we take our guards i think then at least the density of enmity will decrease.

[Duster]

Shalom / peace relearning ...

....Where the Qur'an is the 'guardian' / protector over the Bible ... The Qur'an came after the Bible ...so it can tell us what is right and wrong from it ... What is a protector over the Hadith collection ?? Is there a scripture after the hadith collection that can tell us what is right and wrong from it???

So its not the same thing .... The Qur'an protects over the message of the Bible and confirms many things from it ... Is there such a thing from Allah doing the same with the Bible?

059:023
“He is God, than whom there is no other God, the Sovereign Lord, the Holy One, Peace, the Keeper of Faith, the Guardian/Determining what is true and false (Arabic: l-muhayminu), the Majestic, the Compeller, the Superb. Glorified be God from all that they ascribe as partner (to Him)”

005:015
"O People of the Book, surely there has come to you our Messenger, making clear to you much of what you used to conceal (Arabic: tukh'funa) of the scripture and overlooking / forgiving much (Arabic: wa-ya'fu an kathiran). Surely has come to you from God a light and a clear book"

http://quransmessage.com/articles/between%20hands%20or%20before%20it%20FM3.htm

Hope you can see the difference ...>>>

Also to say that Quran-centric people reject all Hadith as false or get rid of all of them is not right...you may have misunderstood the approach ..... I know this is something that brother Joseph doesn't believe in either ....>>>> AUTHORITY in religion is only witth Qur'an .. Quran-centric can engage with the Hadith - why not?

Also here is something ....brother Joseph defending past scholars!!!

http://quransmessage.com/articles/unwarranted%20prejudice%20FM3.htm

[relearning]

Dear Duster protector of what the book bible? it was written many years later than Jesus. Whay you say for discerning about right and wrong in bible same holds for hadis quran can be discern for hadis its the same kind of protection actually. We dont see a physical bible or torah to be protected actually. And i think qurans teachings shares more belief than it shares with bible or torah.  But learning that you and some people here do not mainly reject hadis is good. But when it comes to actions i dont see it for example i saw brothers share englightmens from bible reciting Jesus but not saw (maybe it was my experience) any of them using a hadis which shares a common value with quran. Although both have the same flaws of being written closely hundred years later by third observers.

[good logic]

Peace relearning.

GOD is consistent. Only His" words " must be the authority on which the deen can be followed.

I do not see anywhere in Qoran where GOD is telling anyone to follow the "bible" .

Please produce the verses and we will happily discuss what they really say.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Duster]

Shalom / peace goodlogic ...


What does the following verse 'REALLY' say then please?>>>>

028.049
"Say (to them, O Muhammad): Then bring a Book from the presence of God which is a BETTER GUIDE (ahda) than BOTH OF THEM (minhuma) that I may follow it (attabi'hu) if you are truthful (sadiqeen)"

[good logic]

Peace Duster.

The two books are :

1- What was sent to Moses from GOD.

2- What was sent to Mohammed from GOD.

GOD is talking about "His words" ,what He sent down.

Look at the confirmation from the previous verse:
28:48
فَلَمّا جاءَهُمُ الحَقُّ مِن عِندِنا قالوا لَولا أوتِىَ مِثلَ ما أوتِىَ موسىٰ أَوَلَم يَكفُروا بِما أوتِىَ موسىٰ مِن قَبلُ قالوا سِحرانِ تَظٰهَرا وَقالوا إِنّا بِكُلٍّ كٰفِرونَ

The key words are "Min indina" Qoran from GOD and "Outia moussa!What Moses was given from GOD

The bible is not mentioned there!!! It contains both GOD s words and men s words!!! GOD is certainly not talking about the "bible".

GOD bless you .
Peace.

[Duster]

Shalom / peace Goodlogic - What do you mean the Bible isn't mentioned there? The Bible contains many Books and words. So what book of Moses were the people around prophet Muhammad's time reading that the Qur'an mentions many times?? Were the Jews of Arabia reading a totally different Book of Moses to the Jews around the world???>>>>

[good logic]

Peace Duster.

You know the verse is talking about what Moses received.

Are you saying Moses received the bible?

Therefore that verse you quoted is certainly not talking about the bible.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Duster]

Shalom / peace Goodlogic....you don't need to overcomplicate this. The word 'Bible' wasn't invented at the time of prophet Muhammad.....Today's Bible is a collection of books..... It has the OT and NT. The OT has the Books / laws of Moses in them....The first five books of the OT for example....these 5 books were being read by the Jews even before Islam spread in Arabia ......>>>>>So the verse talks about  what was given to Moses was present with the Jews of Arabia ...If the OT existed before prophet Muhammad, then the Jews of Arabia must of known about the OT....So is today's OT which has the laws of Moses in them that different from the OT at the time of Prophet Muhammad??? Compare it ... We have access to OTs before Prophet Muhammad's time!!!

[relearning]

Dear brother good logic :

Peace relearning.

GOD is consistent. Only His" words " must be the authority on which the deen can be followed.

I do not see anywhere in Qoran where GOD is telling anyone to follow the "bible" .

Please produce the verses and we will happily discuss what they really say.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

005.068
"Say: "O People of the Book! you have no ground to stand upon unless you firmly stand by (Arabic: Tuqimu) the Torah, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that comes to you from thy Lord, that increases in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But do not grieve over disbelieving people"

005.043
But why do they come to you for decision, when they have (their own) Torah before them?  therein is the (plain) command of God; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not People of Faith.

005.046
"And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Torah that had come before him (Arabic: Bayna yadayhi) : We sent him the Gospel: in it was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Torah that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God."

005.047
"Let the people of the Gospel judge by what God has revealed in it. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God has revealed, they are those who rebel (Arabic: Fasiquna)."

these ayats are the grounds of my claim that God even though stated people of book altered books (which they have in their hands at the time of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon to him) still insists them to follow.

these are excerpts from the article of brohter Joseph the link is: http://quransmessage.com/articles/people%20of%20the%20book%20FM3.htm

[good logic]

Peace Duster.

GOD is clear in all those verses ,. Each of the verse or  context highlights "What GOD has revealed" . So GOD is consistent in all His scripture . To follow only what GOD has revealed. i.e The words of GOD.

If you are saying to me the "bible" we have contains only the words of GOD, then I disagree with you. The same with the books that existed when Mohammed was sent. they had GOD s words and men s words in them. GOD is saying to them "Follow His words only"!

Peace relearning;

5:68 has  added " and all the revelations that come to you from your Lord"- Only GOD s words-.

5:43,...46

GOD is again confirming  "The Torah that had come before Jesus" and "We sent him the Gospel" ...Both GOD s words only.

5:47  makes it clear-  Judge by what GOD has revealed"  GOD s words only.

Hope you can see GOD s consistency clearer now.

GOD knows human and jinn devils will write their own words and claim it is from GOD!!!!

So when it comes to the "bible" we take what Qoran confirms ( GOD s words) and we reject the rest. Same as what was asked from people of the book at the time of Mohammed.
Thank you both.
GOD bless.
Peace.

[Duster]

Shalom / peace Goodlogic ...

You first said this ......>>>>

I do not see anywhere in Qoran where GOD is telling anyone to follow the "bible" .

When it was pointed out to you that there are plenty of verses where Allah has said the previous scriptures contain guidance and that we know what the Bible (OT) the Jews had probably looked like at the time of Prophet Muhammad as we have earlier OT Bibles ....>>>you then change to the following straw man argument ....

If you are saying to me the "bible" we have contains only the words of GOD, then I disagree with you. The same with the books that existed when Mohammed was sent. they had GOD s words and men s words in them. GOD is saying to them "Follow His words only"!

I never said that the BIble today only contains the words of God ...... Thats why the Qur'an was also sent to show what is right and wrong from what the previous followers of scripture were reading .......The articles shared make all that clear .........

 

[Zack]

HI Duster,

Just quoting what I wrote on another thread tonight...

The sensitivities of Muslims to the Bible and CHristians to the Quran are simply traditions long after even the Hadith. The quran itself has no issues with the Bible, in fact encourages the approach . (Surah 10:94).

It seems like a part of your confusion and turmoil is how the Quran relates to the Bible. I hope the above clarifies. God's word is in unity with other... not fighting within itself.

One thing I do believe is central...... God is a God of love and compassion. Gods nature is unchanging. Pray "God, help me in this phase in my life" and I believe He will! You need to get beyond just working things out with your mind. God looks at the heart. Believe He will allow you to experience peace!

Wasalam
Zack