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Offline ZKAB90

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I mean:

* There are 4 traditional manhaj (+ wahabi, sufi, ahmadi, shii). Are Quran-centric a new manhaj?

*If I want to be a Quran-centrist but with no 100% faith (because of Angels and other "extraordinary" things which, at least in this moment I can understand and truly believe in) can be considered one?

* If I can be considered one of you, when I deal with Traditional manhaj-based Muslim, do I tell that I follow a different manhaj (the Qu'ran-centric one) ?

Salams and thanks.

Offline Truth Seeker

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Salaam,

Quran centric beliefs are not a manhaj. It is simply an approach to understanding the faith. In fact we don't believe in dividing into
sects as it goes against the Quranic instuctions.

Being Quran centric means believing in the clear unequivocal verses
that talk about angels jinn and other realms outside our scope of vision.

So when you talk to traditionalists, you only have to mention if you wish, that you take a Quran centric/focussed approach to matters.




Offline ZKAB90

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Being Quran centric means believing in the clear unequivocal verses
that talk about angels jinn and other realms outside our scope of vision.


Salam;

Yes, but this one is the most difficult.

Does mean I must tell to myself "ANGELS AND JINNS EXIST" until I truly believe in it?

Praying can help to trust in it?

I don't want to going in Hell :/

Offline Truth Seeker

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Salaam,

It must be very difficult for you as I can sense that you strongly
want to believe and put negative thoughts aside.

Again, I do advise that you read the Quran fully, try to feel a connection.

You have already made a huge leap if you consider that you believe in
God. You can't see Him yet you know He is present. Just extending that thought to the fact that in turn He can surely create other beings apart from us?

Offline ZKAB90

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Salaam,

It must be very difficult for you as I can sense that you strongly
want to believe and put negative thoughts aside.

Again, I do advise that you read the Quran fully, try to feel a connection.

You have already made a huge leap if you consider that you believe in
God. You can't see Him yet you know He is present. Just extending that thought to the fact that in turn He can surely create other beings apart from us?

True; but is like I need to clean my mind from all the stuff I learn for years and readjust them into a "magical" one. This connection is the hard one.

Offline Truth Seeker

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Yes you are right..you will have to clean your mind.

Then really think about whether their is a God and if you are convinced that there is then read the scripture.

The 'magical' side as you put it, is not the overarching theme of the Quran but is an important aspect nevertheless as it
reflects the almighty power of God.

Offline relearning

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Let the process take a natural path dont force yourself that you have to accept something just because you have to! Believing is not a science based result which is based on experiments which will give measurable and comparable results. It is a way to give meaning to what happening around us. Like our stomach needs food in order to continue its job which is its basic most nature. Our mind and consciousness wants to have meanings reasons in order for them to process. they are hungry for logic for meanings. As being human beings it just doesnt seem plausible to us that this vast extraordionary space having lots of divergencies and harmony and rules everywhere manifesting to keep everything in order can be without a perfect omnipotent being. Then comes life such a miracle and mind and consciousness its like a riddle wrapped in a mystery, to be yourself to understand to think to see to perceive. Yet there are two main streams in human history one accepts and states boldly that There exist no God and trying to find a meaning is just an illusion of our minds which is evolved million years of time.  The other stream says There is God (or Gods) which intenionally created universe and human beings and wants them to believe Him sending both open and hidden messages (a prophet is an open clear sign where as our logic and deductions from life and wonderful beings and universal rules cannot be existed without one setting and controlling them). Although this last group is seperated among them to many sects groups due to the nature of the message which might not seem clear at first and requires endeavour to pull out the right message and by nature is open to many different interpretation and subjective views. And then its our perfectionist side comes we want everything in tidy and neat we are not open differences and we want everyone to understand a message as the way we understand and to blame others if they think different. So its better you start your own journey and not just first pin yourself to a group or sect. You may have some common points with one group and also you may disagree with them at other points. But its your ideas or the results of your unique journey you dont have to follow anyone strictly or boldy to accept them as the source of truth. But they are just beings like us they ponder as well sometimes they hit the target sometimes miss it. Or even maybe there are some dualities if we were in their position or experienced a life style as they did we would assume them right.  After this mingled thoughts regarding jins i must say:

Context is the king you must keep in mind. Quran's first audience is Arabs. Arabs had the historical thought of beings Jinns. they were afraid in the darkness these creatures might hurt them. (thats the fear surats falak and nas were addressing to seek god's protection against these jinns). We must keep the quran in its time and space frame so that we can deduct messages but we must be aware we werent the population it was addressing. For example Quran states that for muslims there will be heaven rivers flowing and virgin spouses waiting them in the tent. Arabs lived in tents and in places were in lack of water sources. Quran speak to them at their degree of understanding. We must take the core of the message in that case its heaven is a place where people will have what they hoped for what would make them happy. Another example quran says have prepared war horses in case of an emergency. Now it addresses Arabs who lived in time where horses were like tanks of the war. So the core message is a country must have ready defense and attack weapons in order to avoid enemies' bad intentions. if take quran and live it ord by word without context and time concept we would end up living an arab in a desert. Not disgracing their life style but quran is not there to sell arabic customs or to make everyone arab But to make everyone believe one God. Hope it helps. If it was too mixed sorry for my english.

Offline ZKAB90

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Let the process take a natural path dont force yourself that you have to accept something just because you have to! Believing is not a science based result which is based on experiments which will give measurable and comparable results. It is a way to give meaning to what happening around us. Like our stomach needs food in order to continue its job which is its basic most nature. Our mind and consciousness wants to have meanings reasons in order for them to process. they are hungry for logic for meanings. As being human beings it just doesnt seem plausible to us that this vast extraordionary space having lots of divergencies and harmony and rules everywhere manifesting to keep everything in order can be without a perfect omnipotent being. Then comes life such a miracle and mind and consciousness its like a riddle wrapped in a mystery, to be yourself to understand to think to see to perceive. Yet there are two main streams in human history one accepts and states boldly that There exist no God and trying to find a meaning is just an illusion of our minds which is evolved million years of time.  The other stream says There is God (or Gods) which intenionally created universe and human beings and wants them to believe Him sending both open and hidden messages (a prophet is an open clear sign where as our logic and deductions from life and wonderful beings and universal rules cannot be existed without one setting and controlling them). Although this last group is seperated among them to many sects groups due to the nature of the message which might not seem clear at first and requires endeavour to pull out the right message and by nature is open to many different interpretation and subjective views. And then its our perfectionist side comes we want everything in tidy and neat we are not open differences and we want everyone to understand a message as the way we understand and to blame others if they think different. So its better you start your own journey and not just first pin yourself to a group or sect. You may have some common points with one group and also you may disagree with them at other points. But its your ideas or the results of your unique journey you dont have to follow anyone strictly or boldy to accept them as the source of truth. But they are just beings like us they ponder as well sometimes they hit the target sometimes miss it. Or even maybe there are some dualities if we were in their position or experienced a life style as they did we would assume them right.  After this mingled thoughts regarding jins i must say:

Context is the king you must keep in mind. Quran's first audience is Arabs. Arabs had the historical thought of beings Jinns. they were afraid in the darkness these creatures might hurt them. (thats the fear surats falak and nas were addressing to seek god's protection against these jinns). We must keep the quran in its time and space frame so that we can deduct messages but we must be aware we werent the population it was addressing. For example Quran states that for muslims there will be heaven rivers flowing and virgin spouses waiting them in the tent. Arabs lived in tents and in places were in lack of water sources. Quran speak to them at their degree of understanding. We must take the core of the message in that case its heaven is a place where people will have what they hoped for what would make them happy. Another example quran says have prepared war horses in case of an emergency. Now it addresses Arabs who lived in time where horses were like tanks of the war. So the core message is a country must have ready defense and attack weapons in order to avoid enemies' bad intentions. if take quran and live it ord by word without context and time concept we would end up living an arab in a desert. Not disgracing their life style but quran is not there to sell arabic customs or to make everyone arab But to make everyone believe one God. Hope it helps. If it was too mixed sorry for my english.

Thanks for your help;

However, I can't swallow, although I believe Qur'an is true, things like "staff which could turn into a snake"  :'( :-\

Offline relearning

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Yes but first of all ask yourself do you have to? Are you forced to become a believer? Or is it a result of a choice? I mean you were born in a society which had fixed ideas and beliefs a religion and as you live among them you are shaped by them. Where is free will? So even your life adventure of reaching reality truth is also valuable i think. It is not just accepting the confort having the idea that you are in the winner side just because you were born in that society and accepted their all belief without any scrunity. So even at the end you turn up an atheist or teist or deist or a muslim or a budisth whatever if it is a result of sincere work it will pay off somewhere i believe.