Proof that the HELL IS ETERNAL

[ZKAB90]

Some of Quranaloners also claim that hell is not forever. Their arguments are based on:

1. mistranslation(s) -particularly of the word khuld and abad

2. misinterpretations (of other verses who are translated correctly- see 3/7)

Let us, again, turn our attention to the two quoted passages. They clearly claim /teach/point to us the following:

1. Hell IS forever and is NOT restricted only to a limited number of days.

2. Conviction that hell is restricted only to a limited number of days lead to misconduct and disobedience to The God.

3. There is no such thing as "burning out" for sins until these are fully "repayed" (and the sinner is then taken out and sent to paradise) as the traditionalists believe (this concept of believer being a sinner is also wrong and we will Gw explain it elsewhere).

4. 2/80-82 particularly clearly explain that word khuld actualy/indeed HAS meaning of eternity/unlimitedness. This is done by using this word (triliter kh-l-d) in the passage as the opposite to/of limited number of days. This is very important since there are some who believe that hell is not forever based on the claim that triliter kh-l-d and it's derivatives do(es) not mean forever. We must say that the multi-meaning triliter kh-l-d truly does not always and not neccessarly mean `forever`, but such meaning (forever) is clearly intended in this passage in reference to/with hell, as well as, it can be extricated from the context in many other places throughout The Reading. Plus, it is found in the dictionaries.

And the whole Quran leaves the impression that the man's position in hell or paradise is the final destiny of every man (there is no any description of life after hell or paradise). Note that there are verses (for example 11:16) that says that there is nothing except the fire for unbelievers in the akhirah/other life. How, then, anybody can claim that they would be saved from fire ?

There is a plenty of verses in which is said that the dwelling in the hell will be forever, will be eternal. There are many multiple­meaning arabic words in the Quran. Existence of an alternate meaning does not exclude the main meaning since it is the only one which fit at many places in the Quran. See this verse:

2:167 Thus will Allah show them their own deeds as anguish for them, and they will not emerge (kharejeena) from the Fire.

Thus, as we see, not only that the permanent stay in the fire is based on the meaning of triliter kh­l­d, but is confirmed in (using) other words. Read more verses on the topic:

5:37 They want that they get out from the fire, and they are not with getting out (kharejeena) from it, and for them (is) a continuing (muqeem) torture.

Source: http://www.free-minds.org/Old/articles/science/hellfire.htm [You can read the whole page which indicates other proofs].

[good logic]

Peace ZKAB90.

Your posts are identical to those posted by lostINtheWORLD in free-minds forum.

Just wondering if you are the same person.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

[ZKAB90]

Peace ZKAB90.

Your posts are identical to those posted by lostINtheWORLD in free-minds forum.

Just wondering if you are the same person.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Salam;

Yes, I am also lostINtheWORLD

[Hassan A]

Salam ZKAB90,

Several question I would like to ask you in regards to you view of hell being eternal:

1) What do you make of the following verses in which the suffering of those destined for hell will be in accordance to one’s sins, a perfect retribution for the extent of the sins?

“In the day when He will gather them together (He will say): O ye assembly of the jinn! Many of humankind did ye seduce. And their adherents among humankind will say: Our Lord! We enjoyed one another, but now we have arrived at the appointed term which Thou appointed for us. He will say: Fire is your home. Abide therein, save him whom God wills (to deliver). Indeed! thy Lord is Wise, Aware” [Quran 6:128]

“Those who are wretched shall be in the Fire: There will be for them therein (nothing but) the heaving of sighs and sobs: They will dwell therein for all the time that the Heavens and the Earth endure, except as thy Lord wills: for thy Lord is the (sure) accomplisher of what He plans” [11:106-107]

2) As per the following verse: HOW CAN A PUNISHMENT BE EXTENDED IF THE PUNISHMENT IS INFINITE?:

"Nay, but We shall record that which he says and We will extend / prolong (* yamuddu) for him from a span of punishment extensively" [Quran 19:79]

3) Finally, and most importantly, as asked in the following article: How could an eternal punishment be a befitting requital for a ‘finite’ life? How does one reconcile a serious criminal and an ardent sinner such as Pharaoh who receives the same eternal punishment of burning in hell as with one whose sins are not of that magnitude, but has been doomed for eternity?

http://quransmessage.com/articles/is%20the%20punishment%20of%20hell%20eternal%20FM3.htm

[ZKAB90]

Salam ZKAB90,

Salam Hassan;

Several question I would like to ask you in regards to you view of hell being eternal:

1) What do you make of the following verses in which the suffering of those destined for hell will be in accordance to one’s sins, a perfect retribution for the extent of the sins?

“In the day when He will gather them together (He will say): O ye assembly of the jinn! Many of humankind did ye seduce. And their adherents among humankind will say: Our Lord! We enjoyed one another, but now we have arrived at the appointed term which Thou appointed for us. He will say: Fire is your home. Abide therein, save him whom God wills (to deliver). Indeed! thy Lord is Wise, Aware” [Quran 6:128]

“Those who are wretched shall be in the Fire: There will be for them therein (nothing but) the heaving of sighs and sobs: They will dwell therein for all the time that the Heavens and the Earth endure, except as thy Lord wills: for thy Lord is the (sure) accomplisher of what He plans” [11:106-107]

It is already been answered in the article (http://www.free-minds.org/Old/articles/science/hellfire.htm):

In this controversial passage the phrase except what your Lord willed/wanted has used to argue that some of those who deserved hell will be taken out of it. But if we see the very last verse we see that The God has also said for jannah the same thing that he has said for the hell- illa ma shaae abbuka (except what your Lord willed/wanted)-, BUT, nevertheless, at the end of the passage He has definitely confirmed the perpetual character of paradise saying "ataan gayra majzuz"- a gift/grant not cut/broken (interrupted).

Imo, Illa ma shae rabbuke (except what your Lord willed/wanted) IS ONLY an emphasis that everything happens in accordance with the God's will. (this is the way that Rashad Khalifa translated 11:105-108) see 6/167 (a must read) for a better understanding of "ma shae" -the will of the Lord.

Another phrase in the verse that caused opinions that hell and paradise are not forever is "as long as the skies/space and the earth/Planet Earth continued/lasted" is imho most probably an idiom meaning -forever, always and similar.

2) As per the following verse: HOW CAN A PUNISHMENT BE EXTENDED IF THE PUNISHMENT IS INFINITE?:

"Nay, but We shall record that which he says and We will extend / prolong (* yamuddu) for him from a span of punishment extensively" [Quran 19:79]

I think that the established torture will be increased due to other worldy factors.

3) Finally, and most importantly, as asked in the following article: How could an eternal punishment be a befitting requital for a ‘finite’ life? How does one reconcile a serious criminal and an ardent sinner such as Pharaoh who receives the same eternal punishment of burning in hell as with one whose sins are not of that magnitude, but has been doomed for eternity?
 
http://quransmessage.com/articles/is%20the%20punishment%20of%20hell%20eternal%20FM3.htm

There are differents levels of Hell according to every category of criminals and disbelievers.

[good logic]

Peace ZKAB90.

Thank you for clarifying:
Yes, I am also lostINtheWORLD

Well, so am I. Only joking!

Welcome and GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Hassan A]

Salaam ZKAB90,

First off, apologies for the late reply; I have been preoccupied with school.

2) As per the following verse: HOW CAN A PUNISHMENT BE EXTENDED IF THE PUNISHMENT IS INFINITE?:

"Nay, but We shall record that which he says and We will extend / prolong (* yamuddu) for him from a span of punishment extensively" [Quran 19:79]

I think that the established torture will be increased due to other worldy factors.

With respect, I disagree with you. That verse says nothing about a/the punishment being increased, rather it says said punishment will be extended/prolong; thereby indicating that hell is may not be an infinite punishment.

Finally, and most importantly, as asked in the following article: How could an eternal punishment be a befitting requital for a ‘finite’ life? How does one reconcile a serious criminal and an ardent sinner such as Pharaoh who receives the same eternal punishment of burning in hell as with one whose sins are not of that magnitude, but has been doomed for eternity?
 

There are differents levels of Hell according to every category of criminals and disbelievers.

Be that as it may, that is does not answer the question of: How an eternal punishment be a befitting requital for a ‘finite’ life?

Allow me to put it another way: For arguments sake lets suppose that we humans are held accountable for our actions at the age of 18; I am now 23 years of age. And suppose I die at the age of 40. Let's further suppose that from the moment I was held accountable for my actions (at age 18) till the day I died (at age 40) I have been nothing but a sinner. Having been a sinner my whole life (from the moment I was old enough to be held accountable for my action till the day I died), hell became my abode. Now tell me: Does it seem fair and just to you that I should be made to suffer an eternal punishment in hell for finite sins I have committed in a finite life?

[ZKAB90]

Salaam ZKAB90,

First off, apologies for the late reply; I have been preoccupied with school.

2) As per the following verse: HOW CAN A PUNISHMENT BE EXTENDED IF THE PUNISHMENT IS INFINITE?:

"Nay, but We shall record that which he says and We will extend / prolong (* yamuddu) for him from a span of punishment extensively" [Quran 19:79]

I think that the established torture will be increased due to other worldy factors.

With respect, I disagree with you. That verse says nothing about a/the punishment being increased, rather it says said punishment will be extended/prolong; thereby indicating that hell is may not be an infinite punishment.

As-salaam aleikum Hassan;

If the Hell is not temporary, so for what it is used? The article is very clear in one thing: one time you entered, you will dwelling therein, that is, there is not coming out.

1/ The Hell will be everlasting

2/ As we would not able to coming out, maybe it means that we will be destroy therein. However I don't think it is logical.

Be that as it may, that is does not answer the question of: How an eternal punishment be a befitting requital for a ‘finite’ life?

Allow me to put it another way: For arguments sake lets suppose that we humans are held accountable for our actions at the age of 18; I am now 23 years of age. And suppose I die at the age of 40. Let's further suppose that from the moment I was held accountable for my actions (at age 18) till the day I died (at age 40) I have been nothing but a sinner. Having been a sinner my whole life (from the moment I was old enough to be held accountable for my action till the day I died), hell became my abode. Now tell me: Does it seem fair and just to you that I should be made to suffer an eternal punishment in hell for finite sins I have committed in a finite life?

Brother, I don't make the laws. Maybe for Allah the disbelievers [and the criminals] deserve a infinite punishment. Maybe the differents levels of Hells are in accord to our actions and beliefs...

[Nura]

Salam Hassan

I am not saying that I believe that hell's punishment is eternal! But if you say that how can hell's punishment be eternal as a result of sins committed in a limited life, it has logical loopholes. Because the same can be asked of eternal bliss in heaven as a result of living piously for a finite life. It might be argued that maybe if the said person lived longer he might have committed sins.
The point is that the nature of hereafter and this life is different. The hereafter is eternal, this life is subject to atrophy and decay. Hell's punishment may very well be eternal or maybe not but saying that this life was finite so the repurcussions in afterlife cannot be infinite is not logical. A lot of things in the hereafter will be new and we do not really know much about it. The point is we should strive to not be among those who gets to experience hell even for a moment. We are discouraged
 by God to argue about the hereafter and other things of which we have no concrete knowledge and sometimes not knowing things especially things that Allah has not revealed can give you peace.

[ZKAB90]

Salam Hassan

I am not saying that I believe that hell's punishment is eternal! But if you say that how can hell's punishment be eternal as a result of sins committed in a limited life, it has logical loopholes. Because the same can be asked of eternal bliss in heaven as a result of living piously for a finite life. It might be argued that maybe if the said person lived longer he might have committed sins.
The point is that the nature of hereafter and this life is different. The hereafter is eternal, this life is subject to atrophy and decay. Hell's punishment may very well be eternal or maybe not but saying that this life was finite so the repurcussions in afterlife cannot be infinite is not logical. A lot of things in the hereafter will be new and we do not really know much about it. The point is we should strive to not be among those who gets to experience hell even for a moment. We are discouraged
 by God to argue about the hereafter and other things of which we have no concrete knowledge and sometimes not knowing things especially things that Allah has not revealed can give you peace.

Ma sha Allah brother, good explanation!

Furthermore:

No matter how good a disbeliever may seem on the surface in the life of this world, He or she is guilty of great crimes in the sight of Allah. All their actions in the world, though may seem good on the surface, comes to nothing as fitting punishment for not paying Allah's due. Had they devoted their actions to earn the pleasure of Allah and acknowledged and thanked Him for all His blessings, they would have been saved from the Fire of Hell. The believers enjoyed Allah's blessings on earth too, but they devoted themselves to Allah as well and observed His limits in the Qur'an. The disbelievers will be told on the Day of Judgment with regard to their state on earth:

"That is because you wrongfully enjoyed and rejoiced on earth. Enter the gates of Hell, there to remain - an evil home for the arrogant." (Qur'an 40:75-76)

source: http://www.quranicpath.com/quranicpath/legitimate_consumers.html

[ZKAB90]

Salaam ZKAB90,

First off, apologies for the late reply; I have been preoccupied with school.

2) As per the following verse: HOW CAN A PUNISHMENT BE EXTENDED IF THE PUNISHMENT IS INFINITE?:

"Nay, but We shall record that which he says and We will extend / prolong (* yamuddu) for him from a span of punishment extensively" [Quran 19:79]

I think that the established torture will be increased due to other worldy factors.

With respect, I disagree with you. That verse says nothing about a/the punishment being increased, rather it says said punishment will be extended/prolong; thereby indicating that hell is may not be an infinite punishment.

As-salaam aleikum Hassan;

If the Hell is not temporary, so for what it is used? The article is very clear in one thing: one time you entered, you will dwelling therein, that is, there is not coming out.

1/ The Hell will be everlasting

2/ As we would not able to coming out, maybe it means that we will be destroy therein. However I don't think it is logical.

Be that as it may, that is does not answer the question of: How an eternal punishment be a befitting requital for a ‘finite’ life?

Allow me to put it another way: For arguments sake lets suppose that we humans are held accountable for our actions at the age of 18; I am now 23 years of age. And suppose I die at the age of 40. Let's further suppose that from the moment I was held accountable for my actions (at age 18) till the day I died (at age 40) I have been nothing but a sinner. Having been a sinner my whole life (from the moment I was old enough to be held accountable for my action till the day I died), hell became my abode. Now tell me: Does it seem fair and just to you that I should be made to suffer an eternal punishment in hell for finite sins I have committed in a finite life?

Brother, I don't make the laws. Maybe Allah wants the disbelievers [and the criminals] deserving an infinite punishment. Maybe the differents levels of Hells are in accord to our actions and beliefs...

[Hassan A]

Salaam NURA,

I must make a declaimer that I should have made at the beginning of our (me and ZKAB90) discussion, that being:

I am on the fence on the issue of whether hell fire is eternal or not. I have come across some good arguments in favor of it being eternal, as well as those opposite of it.

That said, you (Nura) made some very good points.

if you say that how can hell's punishment be eternal as a result of sins committed in a limited life, it has logical loopholes. Because the same can be asked of eternal bliss in heaven as a result of living piously for a finite life.

As has been alluded to in one of the article I have shared by Joseph Islam:

“And those who are blessed shall be in the Garden: They will dwell therein for all the time that the Heavens and the Earth endure, except as thy Lord wills: a gift without break (Arabic: Ata'an ghayra majdud)”[Quran 11:108]

In the above verses, both heaven and hell are synonymous with the phrase until the 'heavens and earth endure’ along with the exception, ‘as thy Lord wills’. 
 
However, with regards heaven, we note the elaboration a ‘gift without break’ – ‘Ata'an’ (Bestowal) ‘ghayra Majdud’ (Uninterrupted). This elaboration is omitted with reference to hell which once again suggests a limitation to the punishment.
 
Furthermore, when heaven and hell are contrasted together in verses 64:9-10 below, the duration of the inhabitants of 'Janah' is described as 'khalidina' with an elaboration of 'abad' which gives a sense of perpetuity / absoluteness. In contrast, the duration of hell is limited to 'khalidina'  without the elaboration 'abad'.
 
 
064:009 (part)
"...He will admit them to Gardens beneath which rivers flow, to dwell therein for ever (Arabic: khalidina fiha abadan). That will be the supreme achievement."

064.010
"But those who disbelieved and denied our verses, they will be Companions of the Fire, to dwell in it (Arabic: khalidina) and wretched is that destination"

[Hassan A]

Salam to all,

I now share Nura's sentiment when she said the following:

We are discouraged by God to argue about the hereafter and other things of which we have no concrete knowledge and sometimes not knowing things especially things that Allah has not revealed can give you peace.

So with that, please consider this my last response on this topic.

Peace to all.

[Duster]

Salaam NURA,

I must make a declaimer that I should have made at the beginning of our (me and ZKAB90) discussion, that being:

I am on the fence on the issue of whether hell fire is eternal or not. I have come across some good arguments in favor of it being eternal, as well as those opposite of it.

That said, you (Nura) made some very good points.

if you say that how can hell's punishment be eternal as a result of sins committed in a limited life, it has logical loopholes. Because the same can be asked of eternal bliss in heaven as a result of living piously for a finite life.

Shalom / peace.

This can be easily explained.....the limitation of punishment of Hell and only punishing someone as much as what is committed in life and providing eternal bliss in heaven for a finite life is due to Allah's mercy. He says He is a merciful God throughout the Quran........ He also says he multiplies good and only holds one responsible only for as much as their bad deeds. .....That's the simple logic here in my opinion. Simple mercy......bro Joseph has already mentioned this too.......in the end. ....Allah knows best.

[Nura]

Salam all

My contention was not whether hell is eternal or not. I do not know for sure. I just pointed out that that the afterlife is eternal so both bliss and punishment maybe eternal. That's all. Infinite afterlife's fate is dependent on this finite life. What will happen is not only subject to Allah's mercy but His justice too which is perfect.

When reward in heaven is discussed, sometimes it is said that one is gonna get multiple times that what he or she deserves. That is Allah's decision and I believe when He says that sin is counted one time He is alluding to His mercy, not that the punishment is lessened. Reward is multiplied punishment is not. But punishment in some cases is extended, now this extension may mean increase in intensity of punishment, new more painful punishment maybe introduced as well, lengthening the duration of punishment is not the only way a punishment can be extended for a sinner. Everything is not so simple as it seems.
019.079
"Nay, but We shall record that which he says and We will extend / prolong (* yamuddu) for him from a span of punishment extensively"
But this does not mean that duration of punishment is lessened, maybe intensity of punishment is less for people who have committed less grave sins. Anyways ranks exist also in hell, so maybe they will occupy those ranks where punishment is less severe. Allah has said not an atoms weight of injustice will occur and each will receive what they deserve. I find solace in this. For me it doesn't matter whether hell is eternal or not, I will not be wronged that is what reassures me.


Another thing that I refuse to do is argue about the hereafter with certainty, because Allah talks about the hereafter using similitudes, and this much is certain nobody knows what is reseved for us there in terms of both punishment and rewards. Hell's punishment is severe so is the bliss in heaven. Intensity and rank is what makes the difference maybe. Duration may not be of importance because time as an entity may not exist the way we understand it on Earth.