With ONLY 1 VERSE I give you the proof that the PUNISHMENT IN THE GREAVE IS REAL

[ZKAB90]

"Then [if you had], We would have made you taste double [punishment in] life and double [after] death. Then you would not find for yourself against Us a helper" http://quran.com/17/75


The double punishment after death is

1/ punishment in the barzakh
2/ punishment in the Judgment Day

[good logic]

Peace ZKAB90.

It does not mean two punishments of each. It just means double the same punishment. i.e a severe punishment.

Actually same as the verse that says: "Rabbana Aatihim Diifainin mina Al Adhab" which means " Our Lord give them double the punishment"... Not punish them twice!!!
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[ZKAB90]

Peace ZKAB90.

It does not mean two punishments of each. It just means double the same punishment. i.e a severe punishment.

Actually same as the verse that says: "Rabbana Aatihim Diifainin mina Al Adhab" which means " Our Lord give them double the punishment"... Not punish them twice!!!
GOD bless you.
Peace.

 

[good logic]

Peace ZKAB90.

Hope you realised now.

Same as other examples in Qoran,when it says you get ten times the reward. There is one reward worth ten times. .

So, if it was two punishment GOD would have said " Adhabain". Remember there is a word for "two" in Arabic that is clear.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

[ZKAB90]

Peace ZKAB90.

Hope you realised now

But how do you explain the 6/93?

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=6&verse=93


And who is more unjust than one who invents a lie about Allah or says, "It has been inspired to me," while nothing has been inspired to him, and one who says, "I will reveal [something] like what Allah revealed." And if you could but see when the wrongdoers are in the overwhelming pangs of death while the angels extend their hands, [saying], "Discharge your souls! Today you will be awarded the punishment of [extreme] humiliation for what you used to say against Allah other than the truth and [that] you were, toward His verses, being arrogant."

[good logic]

Peace SKAB90.

Actually 6:93 confirms what I was saying to you about  knowing our fate /destiny at death.

"If you could only see",the angels will extend their hands to them saying let go of your soul,"Today" you have incurred the retribution that is to come to you on the day of resurrection. It does not mean "today" you are going to be punished. i.e it is over "today" you have no more chances. There are no contradiction in Qoran, you have to study all the relevant verses about death, resurrection, reward, punishment,believers,disbelievers,heaven,hell...and see the context and the consistency of what god is really saying.

You  cannot just take single verses and come up with conflicting and contradictory statements.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

[ZKAB90]

Peace SKAB90.

Actually 6:93 confirms what I was saying to you about  knowing our fate /destiny at death.

"If you could only see",the angels will extend their hands to them saying let go of your soul,"Today" you have incurred the retribution that is to come to you on the day of resurrection. It does not mean "today" you are going to be punished. i.e it is over "today" you have no more chances. There are no contradiction in Qoran, you have to study all the relevant verses about death, resurrection, reward, punishment,believers,disbelievers,heaven,hell...and see the context and the consistency of what god is really saying.

You  cannot just take single verses and come up with conflicting and contradictory statements.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

However, the traditionalist Muslim Bassam Zawadi clarifies this with this claim:

""Today" is referring to their day of death and on that day they are getting awarded their punishment. So this shows that the notion of punishment during barzakh exists in the Qur'an"

Source: http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=17588

This article, titled "Does the Belief of "Punishment of the Grave" Contradict the Qur'an?", from the Ahl al Hadeeth Forum, show many replies and counter-arguments. If you take care to read it demolish the Quran-alone thesis.

[good logic]

Peace ZKAB90.

I only see taking verses out of context and a mish mash of misunderstanding Qoran .

I advise readers to study Qoran from cover to cover ,weigh up  all the facts ,then decide .

Having done that, if you still believe in a punishment in the grave then you  have a problem of contradiction in Qoran to deal with as well.

As for the hadith guy, he has demolished Qoran itself by not studying it properly.
 One should be careful not to demolish their next life by abandoning Qoran

Apart from pushing the study of Qoran as a big responsibility for all of us, I have nothing further to say on this matter.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[ZKAB90]

Peace ZKAB90.

I only see taking verses out of context and a mish mash of misunderstanding Qoran .

I advise readers to study Qoran from cover to cover ,weigh up  all the facts ,then decide .

Having done that, if you still believe in a punishment in the grave then you  have a problem of contradiction in Qoran to deal with as well.

As for the hadith guy, he has demolished Qoran itself by not studying it properly.
 One should be careful not to demolish their next life by abandoning Qoran

Apart from pushing the study of Qoran as a big responsibility for all of us, I have nothing further to say on this matter.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Thanks for your answer. I understand, thanks to your help, that the Qur'an make sentences to be understood in deep.

I have thinked about the "TODAY" and it seems you're right.

However there are two verses of alleged punishment I'm failing to see why these are not talking about the grave punishment:

1) Then how [will it be] when the angels take them in death, striking their faces and their backs? (47, 27) and

2) "And if you could but see when the angels take the souls of those who disbelieved... They are striking their faces and their backs and [saying], "Taste the punishment of the Burning Fire" (8, 50)

They seems to me they are talking about an inmediate punishment, and not the one of the Judgement Day.

How do you reconcile them? 

[A.H.A]

Peace to all

There is a good article regarding the Arabic word al-Yawm here.

[good logic]

Peace ZKAB90.

Qoran says the life, death and the hereafter are  different for the believers and the disbelievers.

GOD says "Are we going to make the Muslimeen like the Mujremeen"? Is this how you humans judge?

So the death of the believers is different from the death of the disbelievers, as simple as that.

Death of believers is a peaceful affair . The Angel of death invites the soul out of the body.
However the death of the disbelievers is a horrible affair.
1) and 2) in your post talk about the  Angel of death snatching the soul of the disbeliever, while they await the punishment later at resurrection.. For example in 8:50 it says "Wa dhuku..." the "Wa" -And- means the Angel is saying to the disbeliever " And you will taste the punishment. i.e On judgement day.
8;51 clarifies for us that they have deserved it on judgement day.: " Bima kaddamat Aidikum"

ذٰلِكَ بِما قَدَّمَت أَيديكُم وَأَنَّ اللَّهَ لَيسَ بِظَلّٰمٍ لِلعَبيدِ
Remember from death to resurrection is like sleeping and waking up on the same day.  Judgement must happen first,before the punishment .GOD is just.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[ZKAB90]

Peace ZKAB90.

Qoran says the life, death and the hereafter are  different for the believers and the disbelievers.

GOD says "Are we going to make the Muslimeen like the Mujremeen"? Is this how you humans judge?

So the death of the believers is different from the death of the disbelievers, as simple as that.

Death of believers is a peaceful affair . The Angel of death invites the soul out of the body.
However the death of the disbelievers is a horrible affair.
1) and 2) in your post talk about the  Angel of death snatching the soul of the disbeliever, while they await the punishment later at resurrection.. For example in 8:50 it says "Wa dhuku..." the "Wa" -And- means the Angel is saying to the disbeliever " And you will taste the punishment. i.e On judgement day.
8;51 clarifies for us that they have deserved it on judgement day.: " Bima kaddamat Aidikum"

ذٰلِكَ بِما قَدَّمَت أَيديكُم وَأَنَّ اللَّهَ لَيسَ بِظَلّٰمٍ لِلعَبيدِ
Remember from death to resurrection is like sleeping and waking up on the same day.  Judgement must happen first,before the punishment .GOD is just.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Salaam Good Logic.

I'm very grateful for your help.

However there is a verse that I can't understand. Please help me with this one. It is the last help I ask to you, I don't want to mind you.

The verse is:

And among those around you of the bedouins are hypocrites, and from the people of Madinah. They have become accustomed to hypocrisy. You, do not know them, We know them. We will punish them twice; then they will be returned to a great punishment. (9, 101)

Here is the problem: the word "twice" and the word "then".

This is I think the strongest evidence for the punishment in the grave. They will be returned so I think that they have tasted the punishment before return to it. The final destination is the Hell, but they have tasted this before.

WHERE? Not in the Dunya, so it must be in the Barzakh.

At least this is in line with the Hadiths. We know the punishment is the fire, and the Hadiths say the grave (or the barzakh) for the disbelievers are a pit from the Hell:

"The grave is but a garden from the gardens of Paradise, or a pit from the pits of the Fire.'" [Sunan Tirmidhi (4/639) No. 2460]

[good logic]

Peace ZKAB90.

Here is my understanding of 9:101. GOD is describing the worse kind of people, and is saying they will receive "double the punishment" then they will keep being return to this worse punishment. This life does not figure in the verse. GOD is not saying they will receive two punishment one in this life and one in Barzakh!!!, otherwise He would have said " Adhabain" and mentioned where.

Here is the context of what the verses from 9:100 to 9:102 are saying:

GOD is describing three kinds of people , the first kind the "Assabikoon"  the ones GOD is pleased with 9:100.They will be rewarded with paradise

Then there are the "Munafekoon" the worse kind who will receive the worse punishment( double the punishment) . Because they claimed to be believers but deliberately spread poisonous doubts against the believers and betrayed them. They will be in the bottom of the pile in Gehenna.

Then there are those who mixed up  good works with bad works,9 102, GOD may redeem them, He is forgiver most Merciful.

All these verses are talking about what GOD will do when they go back to Him,

GOD bless you.
Peace.

[ZKAB90]

Peace ZKAB90.

Here is my understanding of 9:101. GOD is describing the worse kind of people, and is saying they will receive "double the punishment" then they will keep being return to this worse punishment. This life does not figure in the verse. GOD is not saying they will receive two punishment one in this life and one in Barzakh!!!, otherwise He would have said " Adhabain" and mentioned where

Salaam;

It doesn't seems be logic, because why God will be punish them double the punishment and after He will reintroduce them again? Do you means God will be punish them and after He would be them leaves and after He will put again? Not very logical 

However, twice isn't equal to double. If your reasoning is correct He would have said double [of the same], and not twice. I think twice clear indicates two differents punishments, and not the double of the same.

[good logic]

Thank you ZKAB90.

Please keep up your Qoran study.

Hopefully we will carry on our discussion in the future.

The most important thing is heed the message,  try our best and avoid any punishment GOD willing ,and we should not worry about it.

Thank you for the conversation.
GOD bless you.
Peace.