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Offline wanderer

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Re: What ARE the differences between Hafs and Warsh??
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2016, 12:41:34 AM »
I now see that Brother Elijah did provide an answer. Thank you. So what are the differences and how do they change things? I'm sorry if I seem annoyed, but I am kind of agitated. Lately, I have become extremely obsessed with religion and Big Picture questions which has caused me to become depressed and extremely anxious. This site has helped me somewhat, and I look forward to hearing your response.
Rather, We dash the truth upon falsehood, and it destroys it, and thereupon it departs. And for you is destruction from that which you describe. (21:18)

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: What ARE the differences between Hafs and Warsh??
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2016, 02:31:24 AM »
Asalamu Alykum Wanderer

The article shared by Truth Seeker I believe has a comforting answer for your inquiry.

Quote
Despite the insignificant differences between the Hafs and Warsh transmissions that we know of today, only the universal recitation of the Quran which is recited today by approximately 95% (Hafs) of the Muslim world can be acceptable from a Quranic perspective.
 
As the Quran's propagation was en masse from the time of the Prophet, it has continued its propagation in the same manner. Therefore, only such a majority recitation as the one recited today in 95% of the Muslim world would be reconcilable with verse 15:9 which confirms God's own protection of the message.
 

That being said, anyone of the past and of today can write their own version of the Scripture by deleting from or adding to it verses. This does not mean that God's did not fullfil His promise of 15:9 that He will surely be it's guarding.

If today there was lets say for example that 55% of the Muslim world recites the hafs version and 45% recites the warsh version then one would start thinking otherwise.

Also brother you might want to take a look at this debate[1]. It's quite long but Insha'Allah you will get some more answers to your inquiry.

Also brother a couple verses we all should keep in mind Insha'Allah  :)

039:018
"Those who listen to the Word (the Quran) and follow the best meaning in it / best of it (Arabic: fayattabi'una ahsanahu) those are the ones whom God has guided and those are the one's endowed with understanding (Arabic: Albabi)
 
039.055
"And follow the best of what is revealed to you from your Lord, before the penalty comes to you suddenly while you do not perceive!”


Salam

[1] "THE SEVEN AHRUF, RECITATIONS (QIRAAT), HAFS
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=840.0

Offline wanderer

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Re: What ARE the differences between Hafs and Warsh??
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2016, 02:55:01 AM »
I simply don't understand how God could let even 5% astray by following a slightly altered edition of the Holy text-- if the Hafs edition is even correct! What if the Warsh edition is the right one?? And still nobody has answered my question as to what ARE the differences in the first place. This forum has been extremely evasive and unhelpful.
Rather, We dash the truth upon falsehood, and it destroys it, and thereupon it departs. And for you is destruction from that which you describe. (21:18)

Offline wanderer

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Re: What ARE the differences between Hafs and Warsh??
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2016, 03:41:04 AM »
I'm really sorry I just was really upset and got carried y
away right now I am just very agitated that despite me bringing it up again and again NOBODY has answered my main question: WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TRANSMISSIONS SPECIFICALLY. Everyone here seems to be dodging my inquiries, which has made me very angry. Please, can you help me?!
Rather, We dash the truth upon falsehood, and it destroys it, and thereupon it departs. And for you is destruction from that which you describe. (21:18)

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: What ARE the differences between Hafs and Warsh??
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2016, 04:16:32 AM »
Salamu Alykum Wanderer

You are saying you want to know the difference between the two. Did not the first article shared by Truth Seeker provide you with those answers?[1] Please answer that question.

You should of realized that its true that there is a difference in recitation and little differences. Therefore we have to live with that. Now its upon you to take the best of what we think its true. Like I said before just because someone or some people change something that does not mean that God failed in His promise of protecting the Quran.

God did not let any other version prevail over the hafs version which would amount to the one being guarded. Its that simple.

Salam

[1] Seven Readings
http://quransmessage.com/articles/seven%20readings%20FM3.htm

Offline wanderer

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Re: What ARE the differences between Hafs and Warsh??
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2016, 04:30:19 AM »
I want to know what the TYPE of differences are. Are THEY JUST prononciation or spelling. The article seems to say the differences are more important than that. And how do we know that Hafs is correct?? And why would God allow even 5% of believers to become misled with even a slightly different version of the Holy text. PLEASE PROVIDE A RESPONSE TO EACH POINT INDIVIDUALLY INSTEAD OF MOCKING ME!!!!
Rather, We dash the truth upon falsehood, and it destroys it, and thereupon it departs. And for you is destruction from that which you describe. (21:18)

Offline Amira

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Re: What ARE the differences between Hafs and Warsh??
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2016, 05:27:44 AM »
Sorry, I said earlier that the versions only had differences in spelling. It seems I was mistaken--there are also differences in pronunciation, though minor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qira%27at

This article shows some of the Hafs and Warsh differences. You can scroll down to part 7, where there's a table with some of the different readings between the versions.

The point is that Allah promised to guard the message, but not necessarily every single letter of it. The overall message remains the same.

Please don't get too impatient, I was in the same position once and I understand it can be confusing, but we're trying to help :)
“Narrated Buraydah ibn al-Hasib: I heard the Apostle of Allah say: In eloquence there is magic, in knowledge ignorance, and in poetry wisdom”

“Historically, what is or isn’t mainstream (in Islam) has always been a function of power, not of truth.” (Iyad El-Baghdadi, Arab Spring activist)

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Re: What ARE the differences between Hafs and Warsh??
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2016, 05:34:10 AM »
Peace be upon you. I provided you with documentation of ALL of the variations between them.
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Re: What ARE the differences between Hafs and Warsh??
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2016, 05:37:41 AM »
And you don't even know Arabic, so which translation is the "right translation"?
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Offline wanderer

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Re: What ARE the differences between Hafs and Warsh??
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2016, 05:53:47 AM »
A few more questions then: Are there any differences that cause a change in meaning? Even if the Quran only says that the message will be preserved, wouldn't God want to protect every letter of the Holy text? And how do we know that the Hafs transmission is correct, not the Warsh one?? Please respond.
Rather, We dash the truth upon falsehood, and it destroys it, and thereupon it departs. And for you is destruction from that which you describe. (21:18)

Offline Truth Seeker

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Re: What ARE the differences between Hafs and Warsh??
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2016, 06:24:43 AM »
Salaam Wanderer,

The difference is in spelling and pronunciation.
There is no difference in the message so please be reassured.

If you think of English there are differences in spelling and pronunciation for example colour/color or grey/gray depending if you are American or British.

Offline wanderer

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Re: What ARE the differences between Hafs and Warsh??
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2016, 06:40:04 AM »
What about my other inquiries?
Rather, We dash the truth upon falsehood, and it destroys it, and thereupon it departs. And for you is destruction from that which you describe. (21:18)

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Re: What ARE the differences between Hafs and Warsh??
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2016, 07:12:17 AM »
Peace. It isn't at all like pronounciation in English... Such as from 2:85, "وَمَا اللَّهُ بِغَافِلٍ عَمَّا تَعْمَلُونَ",
or "وَمَا اللَّهُ بِغَافِلٍ عَمَّا يَعْمَلُونَ".
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Offline wanderer

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Re: What ARE the differences between Hafs and Warsh??
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2016, 07:36:30 AM »
Can you put that in English please:)
Rather, We dash the truth upon falsehood, and it destroys it, and thereupon it departs. And for you is destruction from that which you describe. (21:18)

Offline good logic

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Re: What ARE the differences between Hafs and Warsh??
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2016, 06:15:05 PM »
Peace wanderer.

More research is always beneficial to satisfy your own curiosity.
Our answers will need to  be checked regardless .

This  is one of my posts in another thread about the same subject:

The Qoran given to the prophet was in one form ,which means all the various transmissions only represent the different readers and do not necessarily represent the Qoran revealed to prophet Muhammed and preserved in Master Tablets at God Almighty.


[Qoran 85:21-22] Indeed, it is a glorious Qoran. In a preserved master tablet.

The predominant reading today, spread by Egyptian Qoran readers, is that of Asim in the transmission of Hafs (d. 190/805). In Morocco, the reading is that of Nafi` in the transmission of Warsh (d. 197/812) and the Moroccan Qorans are written accordingly. In Sudan, Nigeria and Central Africa, the prevailing reading is that of Abu `Amr in the version of al-Duri. The transmissions of Hafs, Warsh, Qalun and Al-Duri are still in print today.

A question that should be asked  before your question can be answered is:

What is the Qoran that was given to the prophet?

Then you can proceed to ask: Did the prophet write the verses as they came to him? 

The following table is meant to educate the Muslims and show them how the Hafs Mus-haf differs from the Warsh Mus-haf and it is a proof that human errors were allowed in the writing and collection of the Quran while preserving the right version (in this case Hafs) that will be supported and confirmed by God's Mathematical Miracle of the Quran. These are only some examples.

The writing of the Quran according to Hafs
 The writing of the Quran according to Warsh
 

surah 5:54 (yartadda)
surah 5:54 (yartadid)

surah 91:15 (wa la yakhaafu)
surah 91:15 (fa la yakhaafu)

surah 3:133 (wasaari'uu)
surah 3:133 (saari'uu)

surah 2:132 (wawassaa)
surah 2:132 (wa'awsaa)

surah 2:140 (taquluna)
surah 2:140 (yaquluna)

surah 2:259 (nunshizuhaa)
surah 2:259 (nunshiruhaa)

surah 3:81 (ataytukum)
surah 3:81 (ataynakum)

surah 2:132 (himu)
surah 2:132 (hiimu)

surah 2:214 (yaquula)
surah 2:214 (yaquulu)


I agree with the scholarly understanding that none of the differences, whether vocal (vowel and diacritical points) or graphic (basic letter), between the transmission of Hafs and the transmission of Warsh has any great effect on the meaning. However, the Mathematical Miracle of the Quran supports ONLY one version, the Hafs transmission which is the most commonly used version of transmission. The Rasm (Orthography) of Hafs follows the pattern of the mathematical structure of the Qoran as well as the numbering of the suras and verses. In reality it shows how the Mathematical miracle of the Qoran is working to confirm the preserved Qoran as promised by God. The original version that came to the prophet is mathematically preserved?

GOD bless you.
Peace.
Total loyalty to GOD
In GOD i TRUST.
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