Sons>Daughters (?)

[wanderer]

Hey guys, this is a question that has been bothering me for a while now- Does the Quran value sons over daughters? I'm asking this based on the sections of the Quran that refute the claims of female deities. The tone of these verses seems to indicate that daughters are somehow less than sons, particularly the line "or has he chosen, of what he has created, daughters over sons" and verse 43:18. I know there is a reasonable answer to this, so can anyone, (especially Joseph), help me??
Regards
wanderer

[deleted]

37:149, and 43:16 for reference. Peace.

[wanderer]

I do not see your point at all

[wanderer]

Please elaborate.

[Amira]

Assalamu Alaikum,

First look at the word-by-word translation of 43:17-18:

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=43&verse=17

The phrase used is "one who is brought up in ornaments, and he in dispute is not clear." Basically, the verse is saying that the polytheists thought women were only brought up to look pretty, and the polytheists were in dispute about it. The verse doesn't say that women can't "express themselves in a dispute." The masculine Arabic pronoun is used, showing that the polytheists are the ones who are in dispute, not female children. The pronoun is used to refer to an adult man, not a little girl.

Most of the translations missed out on this part. A better translation for the verse would be something like this: "What use is an offspring that is brought up to be beautiful? He, in dispute, is not clear."

"He" refers to the polytheistic man. This interpretation has been mentioned on a few other websites and fits the Arabic text better.

Verse 43:17 describes a polytheist who is given "good news" (bushra) of a daughter. So according to the Quran, daughters are good news. But the polytheist is not happy about having a daughter, as described in the verse.

According to 81:8-9, some polytheists buried their daughters alive. 43:16 says, "Has He taken daughters and chosen for you sons?" Put together, these verses show that daughters themselves are good news. However, polytheists hated female children and insulted them. Despite the fact that they thought girls were inferior, they still attributed them to God. So the Quran was stating that the polytheists were degrading God by attributing something they hated to Him.

The Quran also condemns those who say God has a son, so it's clear that having children of any gender is beneath Him. However, both sons and daughters are considered a blessing:

"For Allah only is the kingship of the heavens and the earth; He creates whatever He wills; He may bestow daughters to whomever He wills, and sons to whomever He wills. Or may mix them, the sons and daughters; and may make barren whomever He wills; indeed He is All Knowing, Able.” 42:29-50

“And when one among of them receives the glad tidings of a daughter, his face turns black for the day, and he remains seething. Hiding from the people because of the evil of the tidings; "Will he keep her with disgrace, or bury her beneath the earth?"; pay heed! Very evil is the judgment they impose!” 16: 58-59

Other interpretations:

https://newqurantranslation.wordpress.com/2011/07/17/4318/

http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2011/10/03/raised-in-adornments-and-ineffective-in-disputes-the-meaning-and-background-of-verse-4318-of-the-quran/

I hope this makes sense

[wanderer]

Hmm.. thank you for your response sister Amira, but I am still not convinced as to your claim, can you or someone else provide further proof?
Regards,
wanderer

[Hassan A]

Salam Wanderer,

I don't believe the Quran (or Allah) values daughters / women over boys / men.

Both are a creation of Allah, and many verses attest to how both are equal under the "eyes" of Allah and how both will receive equal reward(s) for their acts. The Quran also makes it clear that that the only basis of superiority and excellence that there is, or can be, between us is that of moral excellence / righteousness:

"O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted." [Quran 49:13]

[/i]

Now, with respect to those verses which supposedly seem to indicate that daughters are somehow less than sons it is vital to keep in mind the context / era in which those verses were released. The era / time of prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was one in which women were seen, by the pagan Arabs, as inferior (physically and mentally) and unequal to men and hence regarded them (their daughters) as a mere liability and their birth as a disgrace; therefore, those verses are obviously ironical and in a way rhetorical, as well.

Hope that clears it up

[wanderer]

I'm getting mixed messages here: On one hand, sister Amira is saying that the verses are not rhetorical and just mistranslated, but on the other hand brother Hassan A is saying that the verses aren't being mistranslated,  and are instead rhetorical. Who is right?? And does 43:18 refer to a man of a girl??

[wanderer]

Because, I just say another discussion on the Women section of this forum where it said that 43:18 did in fact refer to a girl. Please Respond
wanderer

[Amira]

I'd say it's both mistranslated and rhetorical. The first part of the verse, which talks about girls being raised for beauty, is rhetorical. It's meant to reflect the polytheists' attitude toward daughters. 43:16 is also rhetorical, as well as the verses asking the polytheists whether they witnessed the angels' creation.

Or the entire statement in verse 43:18 could have been said by the polytheists. This sequence would also make sense:

"And when one of them is given good tidings of that which he attributes to the Most Merciful in comparison, his face becomes dark, and he suppresses grief. The one who is brought up in ornaments and cannot give a clear account in dispute!" (the last part said by the polytheistic man)

There could be several interpretations of these verses, but gender preference is not implied.

[Amira]

I don't speak Arabic, but I looked up the Arabic pronoun "huwa" and I don't see how it can be used to refer to a female child. It's a masculine pronoun.

[wanderer]

You are contradicting yourself sister Amira!! In your first post you said that the end part of verse 43:18 refered to pagan men, but now you say it refers to female children (in the context of what men are saying about them)!! Now you are making me more confused!!

[wanderer]

Also what is everyone's opinion on all the other verses that deal with this topic?

[Amira]

 I didn't contradict myself, I offered two different interpretations. If "huwa" refers to a man, then the verse was mistranslated. If it refers to a girl, then it's possible that the entire verse was spoken by the polytheist.

I checked several websites and "huwa" is never used in reference to a girl. It seems like it should refer to the male polytheist, but I haven't ruled out the other interpretation either.

In case you haven't noticed, there are dozens of Quranic verses with multiple interpretations. I just gave you more than one. There's no need to get so irritated about it.

[wanderer]

I'm sorry if I seemed irate, sister Amira. It was not my intention to appear upset. And yes, you are right; from the Arabic I DO know, 'huwa' means 'he'. But what about the other verses I refered to though? And is there anyone else on this forum that can help us?
Regards,
wanderer