Virgin Birth & ALLAH's laws...

[Abdurrahman]

Allah makes Laws as He wills in the World of Command and
enforces them in the World of Creation i.e. the Universe (7:54, 85:16).
And then, He never changes them‼️
The grand empire of human learning, development, invention, science and technology would have failed to come off ground if Allah’s physical Laws in the Universe were to keep changing. Pregnancy requires the union of the male and the female chromosomes.
Allah never changes His Laws.
Therefore, the idea of a virgin birth, although popular among the Christians and Muslims,
HOW CAN WE EXPLAIN THAT FROM Qur’anic PESPECTIVE❓

[good logic]

Peace Abdulrrahman.

Allah can also break the norm, show his " Ayaats" to people . i.e a miracle is something that breaks the "laws" of nature.
Qoran says Allah works/does/shows... a miracle every now and then to back up His message and Messenger.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Wakas]

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=829.msg3111#msg3111

?

[wanderer]

Brother Joseph has already a dressed the concept of miracles and the 'God does not change his ways' quote MANY TIMES in both his Facebook postings, articles, and forum posts. I don't know how to link them here, but they are easy to find on this site nonetheless.
Regards
wanderer

[ilker]

assalamu alaikum folks

Here are two topics that might give you a different perspective inshaALLAH. May ALLAH (swt) guide us to His path.

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=829.0

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=2040.0

[Hassan A]

Assalamu Alaikum to all,

Dear Abdurrahman,

The case you referred to was one of 'miracle'. Although not a direct answer to your question, you may find this short piece discussing Miracles in Islam (hope the moderators don;t mind me sharing it):

On the Issue of Miracles
https://logical-islam.quora.com/on-the-issue-of-Miracles

[Mehdi]

Assalamu Alaykum,

I would suggest to have a look at "Mohammad Shaikh" explanation which - in my opinion - is interesting :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9x5_Mf6khE&index=3&list=PLiHvquWoCItSy_YCoPJxPv7LGWksg8F7O

In summary, he explains using the Quran, that Mary was hermaphrodite, and this may explain the "Virgin Birth.

Allah know best

With peace,

Mehdi

[Duster]

Shalom / peace Mehdi ....This is not interesting but pathetic.  The root cause is an inability to accept Allah's miracles......Miracles were denied then as the concept of them are denied now.......I also find such explanations are a slur  / insult to such a holy personality....>>>

[wanderer]

Duster-
I concur fully with your points, but there is no need to resort to hurtful language:)
Regards
wanderer

[Nura]

Salam everyone

19:20
She said, "How can be for me a son, when not has touched me a man, and not I am unchaste?"

For me the theory, Mary was a hermaphrodite falls on its face when this ayat is studied. No one knows about their gender and sexuality more than their ownselves. Here, Mary is saying that how can she have a son when no man has touched her? And since she was not married, she said that she did not sleep with a man outside the marriage bond making use of the word 'unchaste' . But, the most important thing is that, she is aware that she can bear children if a man touches her. This proves that she knew she was a woman and a man can impregnate her. If Mary was a hermaphrodite, she would have known herself, and she would have cited that as a reason ( her hermaphroditism) to not being able to bear children. It is highly unlikely and preposterous to suggest that Mary didn't know she was a hermaphrodite. Most hermaphrodite people become aware of their hermaphroditism as adults. But, she clearly informs that she is capable of bearing children but a man has to touch her, hinting clearly that she was a woman and she was aware of that.

[Duster]

Duster-
I concur fully with your points, but there is no need to resort to hurtful language:)
Regards
wanderer

Shalom / peace .... no hurtful language ... funny you should take offence given your history here on the forum  ..... what I do find hurtful is the kind of explanations given to a holy woman when there is no proof. That's what I think we should all be more worried about. No offence intended to anyone - least alone real hermaphrodites...

[wanderer]

Duster-
I do not understand why you are being so rude... I even said I agree with your point... why do you have to call others pathetic... can't you just state your disagreements calmly... No one here is deliberately trying to cause offense to the Virgin Mary (peace be upon her)... indeed, that would be a great sin. As for before... I am really sorry if I offered you. Please accept my sincere apologies.

[Duster]

Wanderer - why are you laboring this? Read again. I didn't call anyone pathetic - just the explanation. Keep calm.  Focus on the arguments.

[wanderer]

I'm sorry, I just did not appreciate  (what I perceived to be) an attack on my character in your second to last post. Still, no harm done.
Regards
wanderer

[Mehdi]

Dear Nura, Alaykum assalam,

Thank you for sharing your view on this matter,

Even in our days, many hermaphrodite knows later (at the age of puberty or later and sometimes never) that they have intersex anatomy.

I do totally agree that Allah can do any miracle he wants, whether there is a logical/scientifical explanation or not.

Joseph article talking about miracle clarified things for me :
http://quransmessage.com/articles/miracles%20and%20laws%20FM3.htm
http://quransmessage.com/articles/science%20miracles%20FM3.htm

Yet, when reading the verse 3:35-36, the fact the Allah in his book the Quran emphasis (focus) on the gender of Mary could/may be a clue.

Quran 3:35-36
[Mention, O Muhammad], when the wife of 'Imran said, "My Lord, indeed I have pledged to You what is in my womb, consecrated [for Your service], so accept this from me. Indeed, You are the Hearing, the Knowing."
But when she delivered her, she said, "My Lord, I have delivered a female." And Allah was most knowing of what she delivered, "And the male is not like the female. And I have named her Mary, and I seek refuge for her in You and [for] her descendants from Satan, the expelled [from the mercy of Allah ]."

There is a reason for Allah to mention any event in the Quran, this one IMHO seems to match the "intersex" explanation, specially when he says "And Allah was most knowing of what she delivered", like there is some denial on the fact that she is (only) a female,

Also the another interesting/"could be related" verse  :
Quran 42:49-50
To Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth; He creates what he wills. He gives to whom He wills female [children], and He gives to whom He wills males.
"Or He makes them [both] males and females", and He renders whom He wills barren. Indeed, He is Knowing and Competent.


>> Or He makes them [both] males and females : Is this talking about Humans that have intersexe anatomy ? we could argue that it matches also

We must be aware that Humans who have "intersexe" represent a considerable percent of the population of the earth, they are Human and creation of God in the same level as any gender, but with intersex anatomy, there is no reason to see the explanation that Mary the Mother of Jesus as she has an 'intersex anatomy' as hurtful/offensive/inappropriate, it's rather thinking so which could irritate/offend anyone who is "intersex". By the way, this verse could represents another great miracle of the Quran.

Of course, Allah knows best

With peace,

Mehdi