Verse 2:34

[wanderer]

When I say every thread I mean every thread I'm involved in, somehow even when I'm specifically addressing questions to seniors by name you seems to ignore.
This is a COMMUNAL forum, where anyone can respond if they feel they have something to add productively, if you want personal messages from these people, send them an email, and they can respond if they want. Like i said, ive been fairly non-active here (compared to before) for a while now, so i have NO IDEA where you got this indication from.

[Wakas]

peace ilker,

How do you explain for example Surah Sad 71-78 and other similar ayat

Can you please clarify and be more specific, i.e. what in those verses?

I forgot to say earlier in the thread. Some of the quotes in my post were not from me. They were from the threads referenced if I recall correctly.


peace Student,

What are the main issues you have with 2:31?

[Student]

salaam Br Wakas,

Here is my question posted earlier in the thread sometime ago:

Why or How Allah swt expect an answer by posing the same question to both Adam AS and the Angels while teaching the former and leaving the latter uninformed?

   And He imparted unto Adam the names of all things; then He brought them within the ken of the angels and said: "Declare unto Me the names of these [things], if what you say is true." 2:31 (Asad)

 At least I do not see they too were given the list of names (Asmaa) and could not retain - did I miss it? It's our fundamental belief that Allah's swt justice demands equal opportunity be given to both parties in the contest of comparison of knowledge/whatever else was being tested with that Asma question, isn't it?

Is Allama=Arada, then?

And also, I just came across some linguistic discussion on corpus on the pronouns employed in 2:31:

http://corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(2:31:6)

What is your take about all these stuff?

[good logic]

Peace wanderer.
Verse 2:32 ,for me, does not say or imply Angels have no free will.  Nor does it imply Angels thought they were superior to man. These are assumptions.
The verse only says they have limited knowledge. All GOD s creatures have only limited knowledge.
Only the Lord has the perfect/complete knowledge.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Wakas]

peace Student,

I think you are mixing some issues. My understanding is as follows:

2:31 And He imparted unto Adam the names of all things; then He brought them within the ken of the angels and said: "Declare unto Me the names of these [things], if what you say is true. (i.e. if what you say is true about the successor/khalifatan)"

Bold refers back to:

2:30 Your Lord said to the controllers, "I am placing a successor on earth." They said, "Would You place in it he who would corrupt it, and shed blood, while we sing Your glory, and praise You?" He said, "I know what you do not know."

You will note what God says in blue. Thus the question asked by God to the angels/controllers in 2:31 was to demonstrate that God knows what they (the angels/controllers) do not know. This is confirmed by their response:

2:32 They said, "Glory be to You, we have no knowledge except what You have taught us, You are the Knowledgeable, the Wise."

Thus what they supposed/claimed about the successor in 2:30 may not be true. "Adam"/mankind has been given a special ability, and the story of "Adam"/mankind is about that, see my previous posts.

The point was in demonstrating God knows what they (angels/controllers) do not know, not whether they could remember names God taught them.
If God were to tell the angels/controllers the names AND Adam/mankind the names, then ask the angels/controllers the same question, what would you expect to happen? Would it demonstrate the point God knows what they do not know?

[ilker]

peace ilker,

How do you explain for example Surah Sad 71-78 and other similar ayat

Can you please clarify and be more specific, i.e. what in those verses?

I forgot to say earlier in the thread. Some of the quotes in my post were not from me. They were from the threads referenced if I recall correctly.


peace Student,

What are the main issues you have with 2:31?

Salam wakas

I would like to hear the "whole passage" from 71-78 or even 71-85 based on your own concept of "iblees". About your theory of the non-existence of iblees prior to the creation of man, I wrote a few things about it too in my original post and I would like to hear your opinion again. Finally, do you agree that "iblees" was acting in accordance with the purpose of his creation and he is not to blame for what he did or he didn't break the rule as you said ?

[Student]

Peace Br Wakas,

I'm still not convinced or satisfied with the explanation you provided but nevertheless I'm very grateful for your attempt always 

You said: The point was in demonstrating God knows what they (angels/controllers) do not know, not whether they could remember names God taught them.

And you discussed 2:30, 31, 32 which seems to fit your explanation but if you look at 2:33 almost all traditional and even Quranist has rendered the meaning giving superiority of Adam over Angels and hence my confusion.

You raised the question the way I was expecting originally (treating both parties equally) but that is not how it is in Quran, for Adam it is Allama and for Angels it is Arada that too from Adam and not from Allah swt. Why?