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Offline sharon

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arabic and verse 89:9
« on: January 16, 2017, 10:48:20 AM »
Assalam alikum my by brothers and sisters I am a bit confused by a verse and a arabic word in the verse. The confused thing I have with the verse is 1. Is it saying what thamud used to do or is it saying what they have done in the valley what the Arabs could see because 2. If yes then it makes it sound like there buildings were still standing tall with nothing wrong with it but we can't see them today and 3. My problem is many translations don't use the al before rocks because if you put it there it make it sound like specific rocks you can see but when no al then it makes it sound like genral rocks 4.why do some words have the al there when you don't need it or it would make the verse sound weird like verse 2:36 it says satan but in arabic it says al satan the satan but why have that jazzakkallah 

Offline sharon

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Re: arabic and verse 89:9
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2017, 12:33:41 PM »
Also  I was just wondering when it says carve out rocks in verse 89:9 does rocks here means the mountions or just rocks bolders means is this verse saying just talking about there homes in the mountions or is it talking about there palaces on the plain or bot what does this verse mean does it just mean they used to use rocks to make the houses on the plains and mountions

Offline sharon

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Re: arabic and verse 89:9
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2017, 11:56:10 AM »
Technically what I am asking is this part of the verse (who carve out the rocks in the valley) is this bit of the verse speaking in the present tense like saying what they have done that you can see or is it speaking in the past tense what they used too do what you can't see and 2. When it says the rocks is it talking about specific rocks what you can see or genral rocks you can't see in the Arabs time jazzakkallah  and when it says rocks is it talking about mountains or small mountains like large bolders or normal bolders jazzakkallah

Offline sharon

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Re: arabic and verse 89:9
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2017, 01:25:39 PM »
Or is the verse just a title given to the like example Henry the 8th the killer

Offline Deliverance

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Re: arabic and verse 89:9
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2017, 03:07:41 AM »
sSalam,

here is a link which might help you
http://corpus.quran.com/concept.jsp?id=thamud

Offline Deliverance

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Re: arabic and verse 89:9
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2017, 03:33:13 AM »
past-tense construct appears all over the Qur'an while the English translations use the present tense and in this case it is pasttense hum khafu-they carved out although it looks also like the imperative form but contextualy it doesnt make sense

Offline sharon

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Re: arabic and verse 89:9
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2017, 11:49:45 AM »
Assalam alikum deliverance I sort of got what you were saying but could you further elaborate what you mean jazzakkallah are you saying that part of the verse (who carved out the rocks in the valley) (allatheena jaboo alssakhra bialwadi) بِالْوَادِ وَثَمُودَ الَّذِينَ جَابُوا الصَّخْرَ  is speaking in the past tense to the prophet and not rocks he could see but what they used to do is that what you are saying jazzakkallah and if yes can you explain to me how it does because I don't know arabic very do if you could help that would be great

Offline sharon

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Re: arabic and verse 89:9
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2017, 03:21:20 PM »
Because I'm a bit stuck on this verse jazzakkallah

Offline Deliverance

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Re: arabic and verse 89:9
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2017, 02:12:42 AM »
Salam Sharon,

This is my understandig of the Vers,it is a Message to the People who do not believe in the allmightiness of god.Then he advises them go through the land and search for ruins of the egytians ,Ad or Thamud who were mighty in power but where destroyed by god .

I hope this helped

Offline sharon

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Re: arabic and verse 89:9
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2017, 02:35:11 PM »
So does 89:7 mean the Arabs could see these lofty pillars or is the verse just saying what they did have like is 89:9 saying the Arabs could see these carved rocks or is the verse saying what they used too do

Offline Deliverance

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Re: arabic and verse 89:9
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2017, 08:26:49 PM »
yes ,they could see them even today you can visit these ruins in this in the northern part of arabia .The most popular Building is in Petra in scientifically they are called Nabateans

Here is a discussion similar to this

Assalam alikum I was just wondering these 2 verses sound like they contradict each other because 28:58 says some used them for a little while 22:45 says no one used them and does 27:52 say we can see there houses and is this say thamud houses are the ones in midian al saleh because that is wrong because the nabatean empire built them and they are not houses they are tombs

In my opinion Ad Thamud and Nabatean are different Names for one and the same People like u have for a hebrew People Punic=Cartagene=Philistan

Offline ilker

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Re: arabic and verse 89:9
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2017, 08:43:12 PM »
assalamu alaikum guys

To me, phrases like "did you not see?" or "do you not see?" in the Quran do not always  mean "literal" seeing. In some places, if not all, this phrase can also mean "do you not consider ?" or "did they not consider / realize" ?

Like in 71:15: "Do you not consider how Allah has created seven heavens in layers ? "

or maybe in 30:37: "Do they not see that Allah extends provision for whom He wills and restricts [it]? Indeed, in that are signs for a people who believe. "

maybe 46:33: "Do they not see that Allah , who created the heavens and earth and did not fail in their creation, is able to give life to the dead? Yes. Indeed, He is over all things competent."

So even if the Arabs did not see the ruins of those people, still no problem! This is my opinion on the subject. Only ALLAH (swt) knows the true meaning of ayat. May HE guide us to the right way.

Offline Deliverance

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Re: arabic and verse 89:9
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2017, 08:50:36 PM »
Sorry thats the correct Name
Carthaginian=Phoenicians=Punic

Offline Deliverance

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Re: arabic and verse 89:9
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2017, 09:03:44 PM »
Salam Ilker,
"To me, phrases like "did you not see?" or "do you not see?" in the Quran do not always  mean "literal" seeing. In some places, if not all, this phrase can also mean "do you not consider ?" or "did they not consider / realize" ? "

I also think so it is like the answer of someone you are talking with in stead of" I understand " he is saying "i see"

Offline sharon

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Re: arabic and verse 89:9
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2017, 01:11:24 AM »
Thanks but those buildings were not built by thamud they were built by the nabteons and the nabateans can't be thamud or ad because the nabatean came about 300 bc the quran says thamud and AD came way before abraham and moses what I mean is these parts of the verses 89:9 (who carved out the rocks in the valley) and 89:7 (iram owners of the lofty pillars) are these part of the verses speaking in the present tense or past just these verses if you were to only read theses verse 89:6-9 are these part of the verses in past tense or present