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Offline Hamzeh

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Meaning of the word Islam
« on: April 15, 2017, 06:25:02 AM »
Asalamu Alykum

Dear brother Wakas

I just thought I would start a new topic regarding our discussion on another thread.

I will give my humble opinion to your comments. I do however understand and get what your saying and thanks for your input.

You said
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"Islam" with a capital "I" is a title (or proper noun) - however that is NOT its primary signification.

It depends from what relative point of view your looking at this from.
I agree that although the word "islam" before the Quran was revealed could of been a well known word in the Arabic vocabulary, there does seem to be a suggestion that that word in particular had been turned into a title of a religion (3:19)(5:3). Just so that those who believed were distinguished from those who did not or at least those who were believing in the religion of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad(pbut) were recognized under one umbrella. The term 'muslim' would possibly be any one who believed in one God. But that could be anyone and does not need to be part of the religion that was specifically revealed to the prophets and messengers.

3:19 Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam. And those who were given the Scripture did not differ except after knowledge had come to them - out of jealous animosity between themselves. And whoever disbelieves in the verses of Allah , then indeed, Allah is swift in [taking] account.

You said
Quote
Before Al Quran was revealed all the words used in it already existed, including "islam". There is nothing special about the word "islam", thus does not require capitalisation.
Unfortunately, it has become common practice to give ordinary Arabic words special religious significance and capitalise them into titles, e.g. islam, muslim.

islam is an ordinary word meaning peacemaking/submission, and it is an inclusive word that can encompass various monotheists under its banner.
Islam is the title of a religion, which may or may not reflect the original word meaning, and commonly refers to an exclusive religion.

I do not agree that any various monotheists can be branded under the religion of God(Islam) if they do not believe in the messages that had been passed down exclusively by the Only One True God. A person or group who believe in one God who they categorically recognize as different than the God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, etc are not the same.

I do think that those who believe in the One True God, The God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, and all the prophets and messengers(pbut) are distinguished from those who believe in any one particular God and do not follow the laws, rituals, obligations, prohibitions, etc of those who were given a Scripture.

3:84 Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam)."

3:85 If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).


Cleary there is  difference. I can concur that yes those who believe in One God, but do not follow a particular path that was sent by God maybe termed as monotheists (muslims). God knows best.

I can also say that the word "Islam" in Arabic may have an equivalent term in other languages. However what ever those terms are should also stand clear and should be distinguished between any other religion. Since the Quran is the final revelations it is not a surprise to me that it would combine the 3 main paths sent that are to Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad (pbut) and categorically banner them as one title. The two verses above seem to suggest that.

You said
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This capitalisation of islam/muslim can lead to a few issues:

it helps conceal the original meaning of the word

it leads to the contradictory statement that one be Muslim but not muslim


I think the term "Islam" should actually be well known and not mixed up with other monotheist religions.

The term "muslim" is another topic and should not be mixed with the term "Islam"

Quote
Potentially conflicts with The Quran's universal message, e.g. many messengers used the equivalent word to "muslim" in their own language prior to Quran [2:128, 2:131, 3:67, 3:52, 5:111, 10:72]. Think about whatever word they used in their own languages - would you also class these as special words requiring capitals? The meaning of the word is important, i.e. do you embody the meaning of the word?.
Also, it implies other monotheists cannot be muslim when they could be classed as such according to its original Arabic meaning, which makes sense with various verses, e.g. 2:62.

Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear upon them, nor shall they grieve. [2:62]


Again the term "muslim" is different than the religion. Thats a different topic.

You said:
Quote
In other words, it doesn't matter what one labels themselves as, labels/titles are not important, it's what you believe in and what you do is important.

I agree and disagree, as this statement is broad.

Believers in the Scriptures are asked not to distinguish between each other. They are asked to participate in certain practices together. To label themselves or to be well known is not something out of the ordinary.

Those are my thoughts.

Salam :)

Offline QM Moderators Team

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Re: Meaning of the word Islam
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2017, 04:25:17 PM »
Thank you Hamzeh for starting a new thread on this topic given the discussion.

We will post the relevant thread for other readers information as well.

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=2302.msg12093#msg12093

Offline good logic

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Re: Meaning of the word Islam
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2017, 11:02:55 PM »
Peace Hamzeh.
Very interesting and the right question to ask..
Qoran says there is no acceptable "deen" except "Islam" as far as GOD is concerned.
If we translate "Deen" as religion,this creates the problem I often talk about to people.
Please read this link:
https://lampofislam.wordpress.com/2014/09/15/the-first-commandment-of-islam-has-no-name-in-it-except-gods/

Often ,we point the finger at other religions and criticise them for taking other gods beside GOD",however we are as guilty ,we should pass on the same message given by all GOD s messengers and message that "Islam" ( I am not getting into the argument of capital letters or lower case letters,I do not care as long as one understands what is "Islam" ) is a state of mind /a way of life with GOD alone as the authority and submit/follow His system/heed His message alone.

My view is that this system is independent of the rules/rites given to various generations/people/races...All of them have this main point as the first commandment if you like i.e as common ground.
"Islam" is accepting GOD Alone as the authority and submitting to His "rules". It is like a "covenant" made between the individual and GOD Alone that you serve/worship/follow only GOD as far as our redemption to His kingdom is concerned.
This "Islam" can be done to/with GOD by any individual in any religion. GOD then will do the guiding.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Total loyalty to GOD
In GOD i TRUST.
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?page_id=197

Offline Wakas

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Re: Meaning of the word Islam
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2017, 12:00:20 AM »
peace brother Hamzeh,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I don't have much to add except:

"deen" is essentially 'that which is due', and perhaps better rendered "obligation" in my opinion.

Did you read the article discussing the difference between muslim and mumin? I find people often confuse the two.

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: Meaning of the word Islam
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2017, 08:39:53 AM »
Asalamu Alykum

Dear brother good logic

You said
Quote
Often ,we point the finger at other religions and criticise them for taking other gods beside GOD",however we are as guilty ,we should pass on the same message given by all GOD s messengers and message that "Islam" ( I am not getting into the argument of capital letters or lower case letters,I do not care as long as one understands what is "Islam" ) is a state of mind /a way of life with GOD alone as the authority and submit/follow His system/heed His message alone.

I may agree with this

You also said
Quote
My view is that this system is independent of the rules/rites given to various generations/people/races...All of them have this main point as the first commandment if you like i.e as common ground.
"Islam" is accepting GOD Alone as the authority and submitting to His "rules". It is like a "covenant" made between the individual and GOD Alone that you serve/worship/follow only GOD as far as our redemption to His kingdom is concerned.
This "Islam" can be done to/with GOD by any individual in any religion. GOD then will do the guiding.

Just right now I have read this article[1] by brother Joseph. I might of read it before not sure but now that I read it again I think Insha'Allah I understand the meaning of "Deen" better.

I do think its worth reading


After reading this I think the best interpretation for "Deen" in the main is "Law"or "System"
So if your saying that the religious practices ordain by God like salat, ramadan, charity, etc can be practiced in any countries constitution? Then yes I agree with you brother. This is done on a personal individual level.



However I do think there is a requirement for believers in a country especially those who are in power to implement a constitution in their countries that are according to God's laws(5:44-49). Any country or president or leader who has done this would be considered to have adopted the system/law of "Islam".

However there is no compulsion in doing so but they will be judged in my humble opinion by God.

Therefor the word "shira'tun" in 5:48 would possibly mean constitution or specific details or a charter.

To this point I do not think that "Islam" can be based on an individual level but on a societal level. But being a believer can be achieved Insha'Allah on any ground or just law.

Brother Wakas yes I have read the article about the difference between muslims and mu'min. Thanks for the reminder


May God bless you both Insha'Allah as well

Salam

[1]WHAT IS THE TRUE DEFINITION OF 'DEEN' FROM A QURAN'S PERSPECTIVE?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/what%20is%20the%20true%20defintion%20of%20deen%20FM3.htm



Offline Hamzeh

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Re: Meaning of the word Islam
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2017, 10:11:17 AM »
Your welcome Moderators and thank you for doing that

Salam

Offline good logic

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Re: Meaning of the word Islam
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2017, 02:02:55 PM »
Thank you brother Hamzeh.
Basically this is what GOD  did/does throughout the humans existence:
[Qoran 21:25] We did not send any messenger before you except with the inspiration: "There is no god except Me; you shall serve/worship Me alone."
[Qoran 16:36] We have sent a messenger to every community, saying, "You shall serve/worship God, and avoid idolatry." Subsequently, some were guided by God, while others were committed to straying. Roam the earth and note the consequences for the rejectors.


This is the only religion authorized by God, representing the one message that is contained in all of His scriptures and has been delivered by all of His messengers: (3:19- Islam-):
[Qoran 2:136] Say, "We believe in God, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and all the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are "Muslimeen"."

Idolatry has been a pattern since the early generations. Humans have been shifting the focus of their belief away from" God alone"to some made up religion.
According to Qoran, both message and messenger perform the same sole duty of delivering the word of God. We support the prophets and the messengers  by embracing "Islam" to GOD Alone.
Our responsibility is to be careful and not create our own"sect" by inventing another religion to the generations that will follow.
Redefining true"Islam" or rather highlighting the misconception, is our duty.
GOD bless you.
Peace
Total loyalty to GOD
In GOD i TRUST.
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?page_id=197