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Offline miracle114

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Analysis of verses 16:28 and 16:32
« on: May 10, 2017, 04:54:41 AM »
Peace to all

Would someone please explain verse 16:28 and 16:32

16:28
Those whose lives the angels take while they are wronging themselves will show submission: ‘We were doing no evil.’ ‘Yes you were: God knows fully everything that you have done,

16:32
those whose lives the angels take in a state of goodness. They will say to them, ‘Peace be upon you. Enter the Garden as a reward for what you have done.’

The context of the surrounding verses would suggest this to occur on the last day but is not clear.

If it is not an occurrence on the last day would it be fair to say these two verses are suggestive of a pre judgement when someone passes away?

May God bless you all.






Offline Hamzeh

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Re: Analysis of verses 16:28 and 16:32
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2017, 02:25:50 PM »
Asalamu 3alykum miracle114

The two verses are stating what is said at the time of ones death. It seems to be an initial greeting at the moment one is taken away from this present world but not on the Day of Resurrection.

Verse 16:28 applies to those who die in a state of doing wrong. May Allah(swt) protect us and keep us away from being among those kind of people Insha'Allah.

Verse 16:32 applies to those who die in a good state. May Allah(swt) make us from among those type of people Insha'Allah.

Salam

Offline miracle114

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Re: Analysis of verses 16:28 and 16:32
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2017, 05:16:16 PM »
Walaikum Salaam Brother Hamzeh

Thank you for your reply

From your reply, would it be safe to assume that there is an indication at death or right after the soul is removed whether one's soul is bound for heaven or hell based on the greeting they receive?
I was have always understood that all matters would be decided on judgement day.

JZK for your reply
Salaam



Offline Hamzeh

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Re: Analysis of verses 16:28 and 16:32
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2017, 06:16:01 AM »
Peace miracle114

I think although all matters will be decided on Judgement Day, there still seems to be an indication that during the time of ones death or possibly right after it before the state of "barzakh", the assumption of the record of the deeds or the actions that one has done is known to them or the Angels.

However on Judgement Day is the decision Allah(swt) will make.

It really seems like from the verses below that as soon as one dies or during the death that the purpose of this present world becomes well known and that they have either failed or not. There also could be another dimension at the time of death where a dialogue between the souls and the Angels takes place possibly before the state of "barzakh".

Also possibly the remembrance of the covenant that was taken with the Lord will come to the soul at the time of death(7:172).

God knows best.

8:50 And if you could but see when the angels take the souls of those who disbelieved... They are striking their faces and their backs and [saying], "Taste the punishment of the Burning Fire.

4:97 Indeed, those whom the angels take [in death] while wronging themselves - [the angels] will say, "In what [condition] were you?" They will say, "We were oppressed in the land." The angels will say, "Was not the earth of Allah spacious [enough] for you to emigrate therein?" For those, their refuge is Hell - and evil it is as a destination.

023:098-100
"And I seek refuge in You, my Lord, lest they be present with me, Until, when death comes to one of them, he says: My Lord! Send me back, that I may do right in that which I have left behind! But nay (NO!)! Indeed, it is but a word that he speaks; and before them is a barrier until the day when they are raised"


Please also see the article by brother Joseph below

At the end only God knows best.

Salam


Angels Asking Question and Punishment in the Grave
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1163.0

Offline miracle114

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Re: Analysis of verses 16:28 and 16:32
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2017, 11:09:19 PM »
Salaam Brother Hamzeh
Sorry for the delayed reply. Do forgive me.
Thank you for your replies. They all make sense, still Allah knows best.

I am not convinced upon death one is given any information/experience to indicate judgement has been passed.
However since a soul in its state of rest is outside Time-space and the time between death and judgement will seem like a short moment, it matters not as they all might come to pass in quick succession anyway.

But to those in the Duniya who still have to endure the reality of time, the below verse sheds more light.
16:32
The ones whom the angels take in death, [being] good and pure; [the angels] will say, "Peace be upon you. Enter Paradise for what you used to do."


I now understand this as one statement with two separate time lines. 

Maybe this is overanalysing and irrelevant and may God forgive me. My aim was to use the quran for evidence of heaven/hell indication upon death.

Salaam and Thanks brother





Offline Hamzeh

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Re: Analysis of verses 16:28 and 16:32
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2017, 03:32:38 PM »
Wa 3alykum Assalam Miracle114

No worries bro/sis :)

I agree with your statement as well that the final judgment may not be known to a soul at the time of death, but there maybe some indication from the previous verses stated that upon death one might come to know that the present life had a purpose and that another abode is waiting to come(Judgement Day) but then will go into a state of "Barzakh". It seems to be unknown how this happens or where it happens or it also maybe in the state of "Barzakh" as well but it will still all be as if it was a very short time(ex. a day or two) from the time of ones death to the arrival of the Day of Judgement. With all due respect I think this is as far as I can understand and would rather not get into many assumptions.

In my humble opinion this is somehow suggested especially by verses 23:98-100. The souls will ask to be sent back to a world that seems to be still running its course. Which in my humble opinion again seems to indicate that Judgment Day has not yet begun because when Judgment Day begins the present life will be put to an end(by the first trumpet) and no good can avail anyone anymore and there will be no need to come back to a world that is empty. This is not conclusive at all but just a opinion.

Also the verse you mentioned 16:32 may very well be like you kindly suggested that its one statement with two separate time lines.

God knows best.

Insha'Allah He the Almighty Lord protect us and grant us mercy and good in this world and the next world and protects us from the torment of the fire.

Salam

Offline miracle114

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Re: Analysis of verses 16:28 and 16:32
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2017, 12:13:19 AM »
Salaam Hamzeh
I agree with your view on. 23:98-100 and brother Joseph's article on punishment in the grave.

Peace, Thanks and Godwilling we receive the best of this and the hereafter.

Offline ilker

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Re: Analysis of verses 16:28 and 16:32
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2017, 07:33:38 PM »
Salam all

So in 16:32, from a grammatical perspective, is it (yaqooloona) "angels, saying ..." or "angels will say" ? Is it future tense or present tense referring to the exact time of dying ? I don't know for sure but it's defined as the "imperfect" tense in arabic.

Offline miracle114

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Re: Analysis of verses 16:28 and 16:32
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2017, 12:28:10 AM »
Salaam ilker
I believe it's present tense.  But, as God is not bound by time space, the tense should have no real significance.

Peace and Thanks


Offline ilker

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Re: Analysis of verses 16:28 and 16:32
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2017, 02:31:03 AM »
Salam

Alhamdulillah. thanks for your reply miracle114.